My AP Las Vegas “Journey” - A Cautionary Tale

[rootbeer7]

I don’t whether to laugh or cry.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by RTG

I have no criticism of AP codes. None. I’m a secret fanboy of one of them actually.

My only criticism is of the crazy marketplace we just went through where people were willing to do absolutely idiotic things in pursuit of a watch that traded above retail. Based on the number of codes, offshores, divers and ladies models that came available at grey dealers in recent years, usually unworn with warranty cards showing they had been purchased and immediately sold, the obvious conclusion is people were buying watches they didn’t want. I would be shocked if you didn’t come to the same conclusion.

You will be shocked then. Because I don’t share that conclusion. All kinds of watches were and are sold unworn. Also very desirable watches. That’s completely normal. It’s called a market of supply and demand. Capitalism. Your theory is that only unwanted watches come to that market. I think that’s not the case..

[noobs]

With such a non-deterministic process, individuals are bound to encounter a spectrum of bell curve experiences. This ranges from individuals acquiring a jumbo or 41mm chrono as their initial piece, to cases like OP's where they're given the runaround.

[RTG]

Originally Posted by Palex

You will be shocked then. Because I don’t share that conclusion. All kinds of watches were and are sold unworn. Also very desirable watches. That’s completely normal. It’s called a market of supply and demand. Capitalism. Your theory is that only unwanted watches come to that market. I think that’s not the case..

So you’re saying no customers were leveraged into buying codes, or female watches, to get a watch they wanted? Countless members on this very forum have admitted to doing exactly that. Buying watches they didn’t want so they could get one they did want. Doesn’t mean everyone, but tons of people have, with several brands.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by RTG

So you’re saying no customers were leveraged into buying codes, or female watches, to get a watch they wanted? Countless members on this very forum have admitted to doing exactly that. Buying watches they didn’t want so they could get one they did want. Doesn’t mean everyone, but tons of people have, with several brands.

No, thats’s not what I am saying. Only the fact that some watches show up unworn in the market, is no argument that they were “unwanted” watches.

Furthermore, my opinion is that it’s stupid to buy something you don’t like. You call it “leveraged in”. I call it greed that backfired. Rule 1: only buy watches you really like. If the price goes down, it’s no problem, you always have your nice watch then..

[dauster]

Originally Posted by EEpro

AP sub-forum rules

Rule #1a
No criticism of AP will be tolerated.

Rule #1b
If you had a bad experience, it was mostly your fault.

Rule #2
They sent out vegetables during covid, so they're always right.

Rule #3
Only post wrist pics in the "which AP are you wearing today" thread. All other interactions require a flame suit.

Loollolololoo they sent out vegetables during Covid so they are always right - I’m dying


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[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by Palex

I had the chance to buy a white gold QP in February 2023 but waited for the 26574, which I got to buy in April ‘23. The code QP never left my thoughts! My wife likes the code better than the RO QP!

Carry on

It does... it's just not hyped.

[Uppersouth]

I understand on very limited pieces but don’t see this model of sales sustainable.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

And to the point that the OP bought watches that, at the time, were at or above retail, is beside the point, isn’t it? He didn’t sell them, other than the one he mentioned, he didn’t try to profit. He just followed the advice of his “trusted” SA and dropped $400,000 on watches, many of which were NOT the desired configurations. That’s the ridiculousness that is just baffling. AP at least could have given him the configurations he wanted, or a grail piece he wanted and stopped leading him on, no? That just seems so reasonable to me. Give the guy the watch he wants, he played the game, he spent a ton of money.

You're willfully ignoring the point (as one would expect in internet "discussions") - the original SA sold the OP 9 watches at a time when most of them (6 or 7 out of 9) where in high demand and would instantly have gone to the next person on the list, had OP declined. From early '21 to late '22, OP acquired a nice collection of moderately hot watches at retail. I fail to see how he is the victim during that part of the story. That the SA then left was obviously unfortunate.

The baffling/ridiculous part to me is that someone who has been collecting watches for 35 years, and is somehow in a position to spend $200k/year on trinkets, is unable to say 'Thanks for thinking of me, that's a nice watch, but I'd rather wait for my preferred dial/color combo. Looking forward to hearing from you soon'. And for the Music Edition - it takes a single glance to realize that the 37mm wears totally differently from the requested 43mm version. Unless held at gun point, why fork over $35k for something that is obviously not what one wants?

[SMD]

Reading this thread makes we want to wear my ceramic open worked today.

[RTG]

Originally Posted by Palex

Furthermore, my opinion is that it’s stupid to buy something you don’t like. You call it “leveraged in”. I call it greed that backfired. Rule 1: only buy watches you really like. If the price goes down, it’s no problem, you always have your nice watch then..

Let’s agree on that point and move on.

[mickyd329]

Looks like the OP started a robust debate with this thread. We are on post #132 and yet the OP has not chimed in since post #62.

I agree with @VogelPheonix. The OP got a lot of moderately hot and some pretty hot pieces during the two year run. His SA left in Jan of 2023. He did not get anything in 2023 and was asking for an Openwork, QP, or gold Jumbo. All difficult pieces to get. All requiring APNA approval. Totally not uncommon for some grail level pieces. I only had one allocation in 2023 for myself as well, since my ask was only for an Openwork. I really thought I was going to go blank in 2023 and was ok with it since I knew it was a tall ask.

Reading the original post again, in the midst of him asking for one of his grails, the OP sold his Music Edition ROO in December of 2023. Presumably without letting the boutique know. This particular piece is still listing for over retail today. The new buyer probably registered the watch and triggered a red flag with APNA. Then in Feb of this year, he reaches out to the CEO of APNA and gets a call together with the boutique manager and client care rep. At which point he again expresses his desire for his grail pieces. I know one thing. If I had sold one of my allocations without first talking to my boutique while asking for an Openwork, I could pretty much kiss that possibility good bye. Doesn't matter how much money I spent up to that point.

I'm just curious if at any time during these recent conversations, the sale of the Music Edition came up? I know this is a touchy subject and rightfully so, but it's common knowledge amongst the community that selling a piece can get you blacklisted with AP. How did that conversation go?

I feel terrible for the OP that he spent $400k with AP only to not attain any of his grails. However, the story just doesn't feel complete. Why would AP or the boutique throw away a high spend client knowing that the ceiling was much higher, unless there is something that the OP did to trigger the negative response?

We can speculate all we want, but only the OP can fill in the details and I'm starting to question whether the entirety of the sequence of events have been laid out.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by SMD

Reading this thread makes we want to wear my ceramic open worked today.

That's cruel.

[BogdanS]

Reading this thread makes we want to wear my apple today.


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[Watchguynyc8300]

Originally Posted by EEpro

AP sub-forum rules

Rule #1a
No criticism of AP will be tolerated.

Rule #1b
If you had a bad experience, it was mostly your fault.

Rule #2
They sent out vegetables during covid, so they're always right.

Rule #3
Only post wrist pics in the "which AP are you wearing today" thread. All other interactions require a flame suit.

🤣🤣🤣 so correct. The apologists for the blatant bundling attempts communicated as “journey”

Also don’t forget any piece offered is a “hot” piece in a market according to them.

The code for the most part has been a dog - vast majority of people buy it because they’re told they have to if they want a royal oak. It is APs fault they have a quite less desirable line that 80%+ people don’t care for at the price tag it’s marketed.

Everyone says the code is comfortable - which is not exactly true. It’s a huge thick watch, with lugs and inferior strap design to even the offshore…

AP’s explicit goal is to extract as much margin as they can from each customer - they succeeded here, but probably at the cost of longer term customer lifetime value, perhaps their capital is expensive and they need to pump the financials before exiting to LVMH.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

You're willfully ignoring the point (as one would expect in internet "discussions") - the original SA sold the OP 9 watches at a time when most of them (6 or 7 out of 9) where in high demand and would instantly have gone to the next person on the list, had OP declined. From early '21 to late '22, OP acquired a nice collection of moderately hot watches at retail. I fail to see how he is the victim during that part of the story. That the SA then left was obviously unfortunate.

The baffling/ridiculous part to me is that someone who has been collecting watches for 35 years, and is somehow in a position to spend $200k/year on trinkets, is unable to say 'Thanks for thinking of me, that's a nice watch, but I'd rather wait for my preferred dial/color combo. Looking forward to hearing from you soon'. And for the Music Edition - it takes a single glance to realize that the 37mm wears totally differently from the requested 43mm version. Unless held at gun point, why fork over $35k for something that is obviously not what one wants?

Does it really matter that they are in demand, over list, or a grail in anyone else’s eyes? He was led to believe and told by his SA that buying the watches offered, which mostly were ones he didn’t want or not in the configuration he wanted, would lead to a grail. And the SA suggested he had to buy, continually. Once a quarter…I mean, wtf is that? If that’s not preposterous, I don’t know what is.

Should the OP have stopped after $200,000? $300,000? Sure.

But the fact remains, he was misled. It was disingenuous by the SA.

[Ashj52]

In my opinion he was clearly misled

[ButtButt]

What a crazy story, not really sure what to say here. On one hand I feel for the OP but on the other hand spending $400K on watches you don't love just seems insane to me.

[goog53]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Looks like the OP started a robust debate with this thread. We are on post #132 and yet the OP has not chimed in since post #62.

Does he need to chime in anymore? He told his story and people can make their own decision to shop there. We heard yours as well. You were loyal for years and bought ROOs and ROs. Start a thread saying “My name is MickyD drop my name at the Vegas Boutique and you will get a RO without buying trash” You can be The Boutique’s mouthpiece but let’s not ignore the facts these watches he bought suck and was hoodwinked…
-Code Time Only
-Code Chrono
-Code PC (nice piece) but at list plus tax LMAO!
-PM Lady ROO Diamond Bezel
-Lady Music (great for a 6” wrist)
-Grey Diver (very meh)
-Cufflinks

I’m sure you are a nice guy Mike so please do not think I am trying to attack you but I read on the Patek Forum you want a Nautilus after buying 2 Rolexes and 2 Pateks from an AD and are getting “impatient”. I’ve been there so I can relate and agree with you but let’s not be a hypocrite my friend. I know you have the Patek AC as your first and congrats on getting your second PP which is a hot reference in a 5212A and pretty hard to get. That is under a 100k spend in Patek pieces and I hope you get it sooner than later but at least admit the dude got taken for a ride from AP because if a client dropped 400k in Patek watches they’d be getting EVERYTHING under the sun

[ikincooper]

Interesting how much attention this thread is getting.

The moral of the story has to be, to only buy watches that you truly want and tbh I can’t really fathom doing anything otherwise myself.

SA=Sales Advisor, so it’s kind of clear what their role at an AD is, no? As consumers, we’re all individually responsible for what we choose to spend our money on. Go on a journey buying pieces you like and want to eventually lead to a grail or go grey and get your grail now.

[Pfang56]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Looks like the OP started a robust debate with this thread. We are on post #132 and yet the OP has not chimed in since post #62.

I agree with @VogelPheonix. The OP got a lot of moderately hot and some pretty hot pieces during the two year run. His SA left in Jan of 2023. He did not get anything in 2023 and was asking for an Openwork, QP, or gold Jumbo. All difficult pieces to get. All requiring APNA approval. Totally not uncommon for some grail level pieces. I only had one allocation in 2023 for myself as well, since my ask was only for an Openwork. I really thought I was going to go blank in 2023 and was ok with it since I knew it was a tall ask.

Reading the original post again, in the midst of him asking for one of his grails, the OP sold his Music Edition ROO in December of 2023. Presumably without letting the boutique know. This particular piece is still listing for over retail today. The new buyer probably registered the watch and triggered a red flag with APNA. Then in Feb of this year, he reaches out to the CEO of APNA and gets a call together with the boutique manager and client care rep. At which point he again expresses his desire for his grail pieces. I know one thing. If I had sold one of my allocations without first talking to my boutique while asking for an Openwork, I could pretty much kiss that possibility good bye. Doesn't matter how much money I spent up to that point.

I'm just curious if at any time during these recent conversations, the sale of the Music Edition came up? I know this is a touchy subject and rightfully so, but it's common knowledge amongst the community that selling a piece can get you blacklisted with AP. How did that conversation go?

I feel terrible for the OP that he spent $400k with AP only to not attain any of his grails. However, the story just doesn't feel complete. Why would AP or the boutique throw away a high spend client knowing that the ceiling was much higher, unless there is something that the OP did to trigger the negative response?

We can speculate all we want, but only the OP can fill in the details and I'm starting to question whether the entirety of the sequence of events have been laid out.

I also agree with your comment on selling a hot piece, and to me this is a more reasonable explanation. Think of it this way - if I received APNA approval for a desirable piece, then sold that same item it a year later without letting AP know, I would definitely be in the doghouse for a little bit for a "grail piece" because it would be the same APNA stakeholders who need to approve the new allocation. They can offer it to many many other collectors who could have a pristine record spending over 400k over the last few years, and if we are talking about DB's, Ceramics, QP, etc - then the list is incredibly long. Sucks but it's reality.

That being said, I totally feel for the OP - the new piece was for the 25th anniversary! I actually had a similar experience with...PP...and in my case it had nothing to do with selling desirable pieces, but when they couldn't deliver for our 20th anniversary, I gave up and stopped all PP purchases altogether. Just a sour taste in my mouth, and in the end; I realize AP is more my vibe (and PP just seems more *mature*). Beautiful watches but tries too hard to be modern.

Anyway, would really just find a completely new boutique and perhaps an AP house. The current one in LV doesn't seem to deliver at all. I think with some pressure, as well as some patience, the profile seems incredibly ideal for some finer pieces, especially with the CODE QP.


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[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by goog53

Does he need to chime in anymore? He told his story and people can make their own decision to shop there. We heard yours as well. You were loyal for years and bought ROOs and ROs. Start a thread saying “My name is MickyD drop my name at the Vegas Boutique and you will get a RO without buying trash” You can be The Boutique’s mouthpiece but let’s not ignore the facts these watches he bought suck and was hoodwinked…
-Code Time Only
-Code Chrono
-Code PC (nice piece) but at list plus tax LMAO!
-PM Lady ROO Diamond Bezel
-Lady Music (great for a 6” wrist)
-Grey Diver (very meh)
-Cufflinks

I’m sure you are a nice guy Mike so please do not think I am trying to attack you but I read on the Patek Forum you want a Nautilus after buying 2 Rolexes and 2 Pateks from an AD and are getting “impatient”. I’ve been there so I can relate and agree with you but let’s not be a hypocrite my friend. I know you have the Patek AC as your first and congrats on getting your second PP which is a hot reference in a 5212A and pretty hard to get. That is under a 100k spend in Patek pieces and I hope you get it sooner than later but at least admit the dude got taken for a ride from AP because if a client dropped 400k in Patek watches they’d be getting EVERYTHING under the sun

No offense taken. It's all good. I don't think my situation with PP is the same as this. I'm not really understanding how that makes me a hypocrite. I was willing to go grey on a Nautilus because I AM getting impatient (because I want one NOW. lol.) and I know my profile is not strong enough. I expressed that to my AD. They told me to stay patient and I will try to do so. Do I think I'm getting one as my next piece? Probably not. I'm ok with that as I am willing to pay the premium and buy grey to have it sooner. In the meantime, I will continue the "journey" with PP as planned to get difficult allocations in the future.


I'm not trying to be an AP mouthpiece, but there is too much missing in my mind. I'm going to call OP's bullshit. If he proves me wrong, then I will eat my words and sincerely apologize to him.

My spend history is very similar to the OP's with AP. I started thinking would I be brushed off like that if my SA left after spending that kind of money? Would I be blacklisted if I sold a Music ROO piece? And the answer in my head is no. I would probably get a severe slap on the hand for selling something, but would not be blacklisted.

That got me thinking... He got 6 pieces in 2022 and yet not mention of any 50th anniversary pieces? NOT POSSIBLE for someone with that kind of spend..

OP, did you flip 50th anniversary pieces? Do you still have those 50th anniversary pieces? I would love to know. Flipping 50th pieces will ABSOLUTELY get you on the blacklist.

OP, please chime in.

[APJourneyFail]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Looks like the OP started a robust debate with this thread. We are on post #132 and yet the OP has not chimed in since post #62.

Reading the original post again, in the midst of him asking for one of his grails, the OP sold his Music Edition ROO in December of 2023.

We can speculate all we want, but only the OP can fill in the details and I'm starting to question whether the entirety of the sequence of events have been laid out.

I replied about 24 hours ago. It's the weekend and we finally have some beautiful weather. Anyway, your timeline is a little off. I received the Ladies Music in Oct 2022. After 14 months of ZERO allocations I sold it in Dec 2023. Yes, the boutique manager was made aware.
So to review , under my SA I bought 9 pieces in about 18 months. She leaves, I receive ZERO pieces for 14 months. Only after failed attempts with a new SA and the manager I sold a piece. I figured I would reach out to the NA ceo as a last attempt. Honestly, I didn't even know about the regional directors or nomads - I would have possibly switched and reached out to that person instead of the ceo who can't be bothered replying to emails from customers.

MickeyD - I'm glad to hear you think I got all moderately hot to really hot pieces. Please PM me what codes you want and I may sell them to you at retail plus tax if I don't get an allocation soon.

Another question:
I don't really want to name the SA. Some people already know and have DM'd me their experience. It does seem like she was a little rogue from hearing from other experience. She was an AP employee though and I know she received AP training once they took over from Westime. She would tell me how exhausting it was, lol. Ultimately, AP is responsible for their employees. I hope AP tries to weed these people out as there really should be a more standard experience across SA's. I do have lots of saved texts in my back pocket.

Someone said I made missteps like not taking the super hot green dial ROC. What I find that funny was that the boutique manager told me I shouldn't have bought pieces I didn't like or ask for - then offers me 2 pieces I didn't ask for!

I did have one dream watch I wanted- ceramic openworked. I added the other pieces after they proclaimed it was too hard to get and too limited. I then listed several models I like (jumbos, etc) so as to make it easier for AP. A recent thread on here talks about people getting the ceramic chrono as a 2nd piece. I even asked just for that - I really tried to work with them.

[APJourneyFail]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

That got me thinking... He got 6 pieces in 2022 and yet not mention of any 50th anniversary pieces? NOT POSSIBLE for someone with that kind of spend..

OP, did you flip 50th anniversary pieces?

OP, please chime in.

Yes we did receive 2 AP anniversary pieces. Both my RO and my wife's RO are anniversary pieces. Every piece other than the Music remains in my collection. I may post pics here or PM so you can see. Someone may be giving you misinformation. Your SA can probably check my account as well.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by APJourneyFail

Yes we did receive 2 AP anniversary pieces. Both my RO and my wife's RO are anniversary pieces. Every piece other than the Music remains in my collection. I may post pics here or PM so you can see. Someone may be giving you misinformation. Your SA can probably check my account as well.

No information given to me? Why would you think I'm getting any info on you? I don't know how who you are. I'm just trying to connect the dots. Ask my SA? First of all, I wouldn't even know what name to give her. Second. They'd be stupid to divulge personal information on another client. to me. Not only is that privacy issues, but i wouldnt trust them going forward with mine.

Sure, DM me and I'll shut up if you really do have them.

[Jmaster]

The fact that OP was offered the “hot” green ROC after he sold the Lady Music ROO would suggest that he’s not blacklisted. I think that’s a BS excuse.

At the end of the day, he was just treated poorly by AP.

[7sins]

Originally Posted by goog53

if a client dropped 400k in Patek watches they’d be getting EVERYTHING under the sun

I can promise you, if you spent $400k at Patek you would NOT get EVERYTHING under the sun, not even close. You would barely be a VIP at that multi-year spend level unless you are at an obscure geographical location, which they closed the majority of anyways.

[goog53]

Originally Posted by 7sins

I can promise you, if you spent $400k at Patek you would NOT get EVERYTHING under the sun, not even close. You would barely be a VIP at that multi-year spend level unless you are at an obscure geographical location, which they closed the majority of anyways.

Ok we are a bit off topic and maybe I misspoke with my “Everything under the sun” comment but have had friends in very popular areas buy 5270s and get really sought after stuff. I should have excluded Beverly Hills due to Wahlberg and some heavy hitters who shop there who post frequently on IG.

[Akacoke]

Originally Posted by 7sins

I can promise you, if you spent $400k at Patek you would NOT get EVERYTHING under the sun, not even close. You would barely be a VIP at that multi-year spend level unless you are at an obscure geographical location, which they closed the majority of anyways.

I second this.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by SMD

Reading this thread makes we want to wear my ceramic open worked today.

G unit has entered the building.