32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Roli4life]

Originally Posted by saxo3

The short answer is NO.

I measured movement rates, amplitudes, and beat errors in two different watch positions (dial up, six up) starting from watch at rest (zero winding) until full winding and beyond, in single steps of 5 crown-winding turns (360 degrees each).

Four different watches with 3235, 3285, and 3130 movements were measured.

Common features observed for all calibers:

(1) a steep rise in amplitudes (from 0 degrees) is measured only 1-2 turns after the second hand started moving, i.e. exactly after 20 turns.

(2) The highest amplitudes are measured after 35 turns, i.e. a bit before the spring slip starts.

(3) For both watches the spring slip starts at 38-39 turns.

(4) The measured amplitudes slightly decrease after 40 turns and remain constant until the end of the tests at 70 turns.

(4) For my 32xx watches, there is no gain to wind more than 40 full turns.



Comparison with a GMT-Master II BLRO (caliber 3285) and a Submariner 14060M (caliber 3130)

My findings aren’t quite that accurate. Gathered mainly from just wearing the watches , and checking a digital clock every 24 hours.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Roli4life

My findings aren’t quite that accurate.

What?
I answered your two questions.
Did you understand my reply?
That's close to Stan & Oli here ;-)
Next one to be served?

[CharlesN]

Yesterday I bought an Explorer II 226570
It was posted to me and it arrived this morning.




Naturally the first thing I did was go to The Rolex Boutique in London to get the bracelet adjusted for me.

I am still peeling small bits of protective plastic from it.

When I got home I started to take the obligatory measurements.

The watch has a 3285 movement and seems to have done well for its very first test.



More tests will follow shortly I promise


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Congratulations, Charles, a beautiful watch.
Worth a new genious "Incoming" thread?
Panem et circenses!

[CharlesN]

Overnight I did my first of a series of observations…

I have a New Explorer II 226570 equipped with the new Rilex 3285 movement.
It is new and was at the AD 0n 29 May 2021 It was not touched until Yesterday 10 July 2021.

I wound my new Explorer II 226570 fully
I then let it settle for 15 mins on the Witschi arm.
I started recording at 22:00 exactly with data points being taken every 10 seconds for a total of 4 hours (Until 02:00)

This was to see if the same strange breakdown of Amplitude happens on the 3285 movement.

Here is what I observed …..



The breakdown did not seem to manifest itself but the date on my watch changed at 00:03:55. I watched it change and took note of the time.

There is a very clear "Drop" at that precise time in the measurements.

I have NO proof or evidence yet but the Witcshi uses a micriophone that is built into its measuring arm to take its measurements. I am guessing that the ""Drop" is the actual date changing which is a very fast and sudden "Click".

If that is the case I am presuming that the new 3285 movement is similar to the other 32xx movements with the addition of the 24 hour hand.

I am only guessing, and clutching at straws, but, if that is so, the Breakdowns at 00:00 and 6 hours later at 06:00 found on other 32xx movements seem to have disappeared and I wonder if Rolex found the cause and fixed something.

Rolex of course will never say anything to confirm of deny anything but it is fun doing this sort of research.

I must point out that its VERY early days with me and my new Explorer II and as these are the very first measurements I have done so any conclusions are not guaranteed to be correct (Yet !).

There is also an initial "Drop: about a minite after i started the observations. I think that may well be my fault as I may have touched something by accident.
This is seen on BOTH the Error rate and Amplitude plots.
It does NOT however show on both plots at the point of date change, hence my thinking that the initial Drop is possibly something of my doing.


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[TheVTCGuy]

Nice watch! I had the 216570 and loved it.

I am not watchmaker, but doesn’t the drop the instant the date changes kind of make sense? The movement is …. How can I say this… expending energy(?) ….to change the date. So for that brief moment for everything to kind of … hesitate… seems logical. If it hasn’t shown before in your tests it could just be because this watch is so new the mechanism isn’t… broken in yet(?). I am sure my terminology is off but you understand what I am saying.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Yesterday I bought an Explorer II 226570
It was posted to me and it arrived this morning.




Naturally the first thing I did was go to The Rolex Boutique in London to get the bracelet adjusted for me.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice watch but got to ask with the vast array of tools you have, why did you have to go to the Rolex Boutique to have bracelet adjusted for you. After all with all your watchmaking tools its quite a very simple task to adjust bracelet yourself.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by padi56

why did you have to go to the Rolex Boutique

Yes, I do have some watch makers tools (Not as many as i would like though).

Of course adjusting a bracelet is a very few seconds work with a correct tool.

I was out and don't carry any tools with me obviously.

I had to go to Bond Street anyway yesterday for a non-watch related reason. Just realise that I am married and my wife wanted to get something !

The watch fitted me but was not 100% comfortable during the day and with some walking etc I got hotter and my wrist swelled a little.

I popped into the Rolex boutique that was a very few yards from the shop my wife was in and they happily adjusted the watch for me instantly.
I was then all set to carry on in watch bliss and comfort.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Nice watch! I had the 216570 and loved it.

I am not watchmaker, but doesn’t the drop the instant the date changes kind of make sense? The movement is …. How can I say this… expending energy(?) ….to change the date. So for that brief moment for everything to kind of … hesitate… seems logical. If it hasn’t shown before in your tests it could just be because this watch is so new the mechanism isn’t… broken in yet(?). I am sure my terminology is off but you understand what I am saying.

Hi Paul,
Yes, There is logic as to why the "Blip" is showing at the point of date change.
But, On previous 32xx movements we say a much longer drop in Amplitude and rate which was strange. This happened previously at 00:00 and 06:00. The 00:00 drop is understandable but the 06:00 was not (yet).

The drop on this 3285 movement is quite different "Looking" to the other 32xx movements. Its a very pronounced drop. I will repeat the experiment to see if exactly the same happens again.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have been looking a bit more at the Plots.

I have noticed that as there were the early on "Drops" the scales of the Y axis (Vertical) had altered and become greater.

This ment that the rest of the data appeared more compacted.

This stopped me from being able to see if there was a significant Breakdown as previously found on the other 32xx movements.

My finding above may be completely wrong.

I have restarted the test and data collection to see if i can get some clearer results.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Yes, I do have some watch makers tools (Not as many as i would like though).

Of course adjusting a bracelet is a very few seconds work with a correct tool.

I was out and don't carry any tools with me obviously.

I had to go to Bond Street anyway yesterday for a non-watch related reason. Just realise that I am married and my wife wanted to get something !

The watch fitted me but was not 100% comfortable during the day and with some walking etc I got hotter and my wrist swelled a little.

I popped into the Rolex boutique that was a very few yards from the shop my wife was in and they happily adjusted the watch for me instantly.
I was then all set to carry on in watch bliss and comfort.

Surely the Oysterlock folding clasp bracelet, with the Easylink comfort extension link, allows the wearer to adjust the bracelet comfort in most any circumstance,so the easylink clasp extra 5mm did not work for you.

All information supplied from my own brain power, without the aid of loupes,timegraphers, phone apps, and the rest of todays Rolex watch toys.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

The breakdown did not seem to manifest itself but the date on my watch changed at 00:03:55. I am only guessing, and clutching at straws, but, if that is so, the Breakdowns at 00:00 and 6 hours later at 06:00 found on other 32xx movements seem to have disappeared and I wonder if Rolex found the cause and fixed something.

Charles, as I explained to you, Witschi's automatic adaptation of the Y-axis (Amplitude values) has fooled you.

On your screenshot (post #1715), the 3285 amplitude drop is hardly visible because the displayed amplitude range is very large; this was introduced by the amplitude spike at the very beginning of the 4 hours measurement.

I plotted your bare Explorer II data and compared them with your previous Submariner data.
Your three individual Submariner (3235) amplitude scans (top 3 graphs) vs. your first Explorer II (3285) scan (bottom graph).



The amplitude breakdown is also clearly visible on your Explorer II with 3285 movement.
It is bit less sharp than for you 3235 Submariner, but it exists. You have to repeat this measurement a few times to see how reproducible the amplitude breakdown is.

Data taking is rather simple; maybe not for past-century Joes working with some epsilon brain power.

Data analysis and understanding is on a second level.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by padi56

Surely the Oysterlock folding clasp bracelet, with the Easylink comfort extension link, allows the wearer to adjust the bracelet comfort in most any circumstance,so the easylink clasp extra 5mm did not work for you.

All information supplied from my own brain power, without the aid of loupes,timegraphers, phone apps, and the rest of todays Rolex watch toys.

You are wrong.

The Folding Clasop was NOT good enough for me. the watch became even looser.

I had the clasp adjusted via the 3 position pins to the tightest position. That did the trick just perfectly.

Now I have to comment on your little signature phrase ... "All information supplied from my own brain power, without the aid of loupes,timegraphers, phone apps, and the rest of todays Rolex watch toys"

Perhaps that is why you have not managed to add any useful data in this thread. I wonder, if you had a TimeGrapher, Would you join in and add data or just continue to mock. Only YOU can answer that.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Data taking is rather simple[/B]; maybe not for past-century Joes working with some epsilon brain power.

Data analysis and understanding is on a second level.[/B]

Thank you for producing the graphs.

But ... ONE Complaint b....
You used GREEN for the Explorer II with White Dial .... That has ther nickname Polar.
Maybe Ice Blue would have been a better colour.

The graph has shown that I was wrong to jump to a conclusion without looking at ALL of the data collected in a clear and organised way.

So the Breakdown is there although as you said not as pronounced.

I will run a much longer (72Hour) test which will show if there are the two breakdowns still happening. That test will hopefully start this evening.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

You used GREEN for the Explorer II with White Dial .... That has ther nickname Polar.
Maybe Ice Blue would have been a better colour.

For Your Eyes Only, the Explorer II graph in Ice Blue (R:225, G:237, B: 230)

[Kyle3130]

I don’t own test equipment but I set my 124060 (3230) 3 weeks ago when I got it and it’s gained 5 seconds.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Kyle3130

I don’t own test equipment but I set my 124060 (3230) 3 weeks ago when I got it and it’s gained 5 seconds.

Hi Kyle,

Wewlcome to the thread.
A 5 second error over 3 weeks is excellent.

How old is your Submariner ? When was it first sold by the Rolex AD.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by saxo3

For Your Eyes Only, the Explorer II graph in Ice Blue (R:225, G:237, B: 230)

My Watch feels so much better knowing it is in its correct colour even if it it hard to see.
Maybe i should have said Orange like the hand ?

[CharlesN]

Whilst I am waiting for a particular time to come round to start a full Power Reserve test I thought I would just take a quick photo as the lume is looking especially good at the moment.




The watch is showing a time of about 11 mins to 6 which is my local time -BST and the 24 hour hand is showing GMT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

During the past weeks, I have received about a dozen private messages to continue this thread with some fundamental caliber studies.

Apparently, this 32xx data collection thread has quite a lot of silent readers.

One of them (I will not disclose his name) literally wrote to me "Your thread is the most interesting one on TRF".

Hence, I will continue and hope for more appreciation, discussions, questions, and data from other watch owners.

Hopefully some of the silent readers will give some feedback.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by saxo3

I will continue and hope for more appreciation, discussions, questions, and data from other watch owners.

Hopefully some of the silent readers will give some feedback.

Saxo3,

I am totally delighted that you are going to stay and keep this thread alive and well.

speaking personally i dont know how i would manage to interpret the vast amounts of data that i am producing ..
For example today in just 4 hours I managed to produce 1,440 lines of data such as this .....

Time (s), Rate (s/d), Rate σ intern (s/d), Rate σ Vario (s/d), Amplitude (°), Amplitude σ intern (°), Amplitude σ Vario (°), Repere (ms), Repere σ intern (ms), Repere σ Vario (ms)
10.000, 0.80, 0.62, 0.00, 277.0, 0.8, 0.0, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
20.000, 0.70, 0.31, 0.00, 280.0, 1.7, 0.0, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
30.000, 0.90, 0.33, 0.10, 282.0, 0.5, 2.5, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
40.000, 1.20, 0.77, 0.22, 283.0, 1.2, 2.6, 0.1, 0.1, 0.0
50.000, 1.30, 0.66, 0.26, 281.0, 0.7, 2.3, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
60.000, 1.00, 0.58, 0.23, 284.0, 1.0, 2.5, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
70.000, 0.80, 0.52, 0.22, 285.0, 0.9, 2.7, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
80.000, 1.30, 0.43, 0.24, 286.0, 0.7, 2.9, 0.1, 0.1, 0.0
90.000, 2.00, 0.86, 0.40, 282.0, 2.6, 2.7, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
100.000, 1.20, 0.73, 0.38, 278.0, 1.1, 2.9, 0.2, 0.1, 0.0
110.000, 0.80, 0.79, 0.37, 279.0, 0.7, 2.9, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
120.000, 0.80, 0.28, 0.37, 283.0, 1.0, 2.8, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
130.000, 1.60, 0.36, 0.38, 283.0, 1.8, 2.7, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
140.000, 1.50, 0.73, 0.38, 278.0, 1.0, 2.8, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
150.000, 1.40, 0.44, 0.37, 278.0, 0.9, 2.8, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
160.000, 0.80, 0.50, 0.37, 277.0, 1.4, 2.9, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
170.000, 1.10, 1.01, 0.36, 279.0, 0.6, 2.9, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
180.000, 1.40, 0.10, 0.35, 280.0, 0.7, 2.8, 0.1, 0.1, 0.0
190.000, 1.20, 1.12, 0.34, 279.0, 1.5, 2.7, 0.1, 0.1, 0.0
200.000, 1.20, 0.48, 0.33, 278.0, 1.0, 2.7, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
210.000, 1.60, 0.47, 0.34, 278.0, 1.4, 2.7, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
220.000, 1.70, 0.52, 0.35, 274.0, 1.1, 3.0, 0.2, 0.1, 0.0
230.000, 0.80, 0.65, 0.35, 274.0, 0.6, 3.2, 0.2, 0.0, 0.0
240.000, 0.90, 0.45, 0.35, 277.0, 0.7, 3.2, 0.1, 0.1, 0.0
250.000, 1.00, 0.58, 0.34, 279.0, 0.8, 3.1, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
260.000, 1.40, 0.99, 0.34, 280.0, 1.0, 3.1, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
270.000, 1.70, 0.35, 0.35, 278.0, 1.2, 3.0, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
280.000, 0.90, 1.01, 0.35, 276.0, 0.7, 3.0, 0.1, 0.1, 0.0
290.000, 0.90, 0.44, 0.34, 279.0, 0.6, 3.0, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0
300.000, 1.00, 0.79, 0.34, 282.0, 0.6, 3.0, 0.1, 0.0, 0.0

This is just a very few lines of what I am producing data wise but it does all make sense when you know what to do with it and how to interpret it. I dont !

You manage to make it all so simple and clear. Thank you.

Now as to your point about the Silent readers. Obviously I see them as well popping in and out, some of them are even regulars so they must be interested.

So ..... If YOU are one of them, do please join in.

It really does encourage us to get questions or good discussion about the findings we are making. More data sources from others would also be a great help.
For example we are looking for data on 32x0 watches (No date). We need that data for some comparisons with the date models.

[TheVTCGuy]

Off topic a bit but had you ever owned or had a chance to wear the 216570? I am curious of your impression between the two. Are the differences really noticeable?

[saxo3]

Charles, do you think we need to consult with Alois for this question ?

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by saxo3

I already know all the advertised differences, maybe I didn’t ask my question clear enough but what I was referring to was the “feel” of it, is it any different then the 21 on your wrist. I had mine for years, but when I put on the 41 Sub, it just seemed perfect to me. Is it the lug size? Case size? Ratio? I really don’t know, but I’d like to hear from anyone that had the old, does the new one feel any different on your wrist?

[CharlesN]

I have never even tried on one of the older models so I am not qualified to comment.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have never even tried on one of the older models so I am not qualified to comment.

FWIW, my old one was OK, but felt a big bulky, that’s why I went down to the 41 Sub. I wonder if any of the changes in the new one would make me feel different Well, congrats again, it’s a beautiful watch! Mine was awesome for many years.


I know, I’ll just go down to my local Rolex AD, I am sure they have plenty of both the old and new models in the case right?

[Kyle3130]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Hi Kyle,

Wewlcome to the thread.
A 5 second error over 3 weeks is excellent.

How old is your Submariner ? When was it first sold by the Rolex AD.

I’m not exactly sure when it was manufactured. I believe sometime earlier this year. I bought it from my AD 3 weeks ago.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

You are wrong.

The Folding Clasop was NOT good enough for me. the watch became even looser.

I had the clasp adjusted via the 3 position pins to the tightest position. That did the trick just perfectly.

Now I have to comment on your little signature phrase ... "All information supplied from my own brain power, without the aid of loupes,timegraphers, phone apps, and the rest of todays Rolex watch toys"

Perhaps that is why you have not managed to add any useful data in this thread. I wonder, if you had a TimeGrapher, Would you join in and add data or just continue to mock. Only YOU can answer that.

Glad you got your ideal fit of the new watch

Now to the matter of the thread.
This business around where people are margininalised because they don't meet your requirements due to the fact they don't have certain equipment is tiresome.

Do you think there may be some benefit in being more inclusive, in contrast to taking any opportunity to engage in put downs of those with whom you disagree?

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Dirt

This business around where people are margininalised because they don't meet your requirements due to the fact they don't have certain equipment is tiresome.

Do you think there may be some benefit in being more inclusive, in contrast to taking any opportunity to engage in put downs of those with whom you disagree?

Are you being serious ?

Firstly, If you find this thread so tiresome why on earth do you keep on coming back and posting comments that are nothing to do with the subject. You are not forced to read or participate in this thread.

I have not and would not marginalise anyone. No one is asked or required to have any equipment.

I do ask if anyone has a watchgrapher, however sophisticated, and it is clear that several people do have them, to, if possible please be forthcoming with more data. The more the better.

I also ask if people would like to download an app for their iPhone called WatchTracker as this can be helpful for getting some of the data we would like such as monitoring a consistant gain or loss.
It is noit a free app unfortunately but it is quite cheap. But, It is NOT compulsory to have nor is it a requirement to join in.

I am trying to draw people into this thread, If you read my post Number 1731, made only yesterday, I am asking people to join in, ask questions, participate and generally help us come to some conclusions.

I don't put people down for not participating or agreeing with my or other peoples findings.
I do however comment on people who come to this thread purely to sidetrack it with nonsense, just as you have attempted with your post.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Are you being serious ?

Firstly, If you find this thread so tiresome why on earth do you keep on coming back and posting comments that are nothing to do with the subject. You are not forced to read or participate in this thread.

I have not and would not marginalise anyone. No one is asked or required to have any equipment.

I do ask if anyone has a watchgrapher, however sophisticated, and it is clear that several people do have them, to, if possible please be forthcoming with more data. The more the better.

I also ask if people would like to download an app for their iPhone called WatchTracker as this can be helpful for getting some of the data we would like such as monitoring a consistant gain or loss.
It is noit a free app unfortunately but it is quite cheap. But, It is NOT compulsory to have nor is it a requirement to join in.

I am trying to draw people into this thread, If you read my post Number 1731, made only yesterday, I am asking people to join in, ask questions, participate and generally help us come to some conclusions.

I don't put people down for not participating or agreeing with my or other peoples findings.
I do however comment on people who come to this thread purely to sidetrack it with nonsense, just as you have attempted with your post.

X2.