Apple's stand against the Feds

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Maybe I am over simplifying it but why can't there be a compromise that Apple does whatever is necessary to provide the information on THIS phone ONLY, specially given the circumstances of how it was used.

If a method has to be created to accomplish it, do so but not for distribution to the government authorities or anyone outside of Apple. Just to be used for these instances that clearly involve national/public safety.

I really think Apple has cooperated in the past but perhaps the Snowden situation has created a new awareness/concern.

Exactly! Blue Face! Thank you for stating it so clearly when I was fumbling around. It is very simple, Apple, give them the information from this phone. FBI, you will not get the entire unlock procedure for every IPhone in existence, but if a judge/court order tells you to do it for a specific instance, then do it.

I do not know what the hold up is, if it is Apple saying they won't give them the info for this particular phone, or if they are agreeing to that, if the FBI is saying that's not good enough, they want the whole skeleton key. But in either case it's wrong. Give them the info from this phone and this phone only, and if a court orders another phone, give them that one too, but that's it. A Case by case basis.

Why does this seem such a simple resolution to me but people who get paid millions of dollars and control incredible resources and strategic responsibilities can't come to a solution like this?

[subtona]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Exactly! Blue Face! Thank you for stating it so clearly when I was fumbling around. It is very simple, Apple, give them the information from this phone. FBI, you will not get the entire unlock procedure for every IPhone in existence, but if a judge/court order tells you to do it for a specific instance, then do it.

I do not know what the hold up is, if it is Apple saying they won't give them the info for this particular phone, or if they are agreeing to that, if the FBI is saying that's not good enough, they want the whole skeleton key. But in either case it's wrong. Give them the info from this phone and this phone only, and if a court orders another phone, give them that one too, but that's it. A Case by case basis.

Why does this seem such a simple resolution to me but people who get paid millions of dollars and control incredible resources and strategic responsibilities can't come to a solution like this?

Is suspect because ultimately it is not about a single phone.
The objective is to have unfettered access to all personal data.

The conflict is that the data is by it's nature is personal And it has been proven time and again that technology gets hacked every time which will expose that personal data to those that would use it for profit or other self serving functions without an individual's permission.


Of course sometimes it may thwart some wrongdoing but the cost to privacy is too great.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Exactly! Blue Face! Thank you for stating it so clearly when I was fumbling around. It is very simple, Apple, give them the information from this phone. FBI, you will not get the entire unlock procedure for every IPhone in existence, but if a judge/court order tells you to do it for a specific instance, then do it.



I do not know what the hold up is, if it is Apple saying they won't give them the info for this particular phone, or if they are agreeing to that, if the FBI is saying that's not good enough, they want the whole skeleton key. But in either case it's wrong. Give them the info from this phone and this phone only, and if a court orders another phone, give them that one too, but that's it. A Case by case basis.



Why does this seem such a simple resolution to me but people who get paid millions of dollars and control incredible resources and strategic responsibilities can't come to a solution like this?

It isn't as easy as you're making it sound. Apple doesn't have a solution sitting in a closet; They would have to create it. And by creating it, it won't be specific for one iPhone but it can be used on all iPhones. Second, and more importantly, is that you're looking at this from a one-off situation. This has ramifications for not only apple but every software company on the planet and everyone that uses it. What's the point of having your data encrypted if it's not safe? Once the precedent has been established that the government can compel a back door, all software companies will be forced to do the same. And that's only one aspect of it. And then there is the criminal element. If it's been created, it can be duplicated


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[Highland Ranger]

Ownership brings up a good point. They don't need the phone to get email, they should be able to get texts and call data from carrier, what exactly is it they are after? Files on the device?

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[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by Highland Ranger

Ownership brings up a good point. They don't need the phone to get email, they should be able to get texts and call data from carrier, what exactly is it they are after? Files on the device?

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Apple has also provided all of the iCloud data for this phone leaving only iMessages


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[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Highland Ranger

Ownership brings up a good point. They don't need the phone to get email, they should be able to get texts and call data from carrier, what exactly is it they are after? Files on the device?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

the fbi is seeking what they always seek, control.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by Etschell

the fbi is seeking what they always seek, control.

Yep. If Apple gives in and this backdoor is used under the Patriot Act, this changes everything. It would bundle nicely with the unfettered use of wire taps and internet surveillance happening today

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

DOJ just filed a motion to compel.

And the order is kind of interesting. They could have sitpulated a number of reasons to want the data, most compelling would be to find out of any plans for future attacks but instead it says:

The government has reason to believe that Farook used that iPhone to communicate with some of the very people whom he and Malik murdered. The phone may contain critical communications and data prior to and around the
time of the shooting that, thus far: (1) has not been accessed; (2) may reside solely on the phone; and (3) cannot be accessed by any other means known to either the government or Apple

That is a weak argument at best and if Apple is forced to give in here, they have no argument in the future.

[TheVTCGuy]

Yeah... And what if it were personal, what if (GOD forbid) there is another attack that claims innocent victims, perhaps a (GOD forbid) member of your family? Would you feel as strongly against the sinister and power hungry FBI wanting this information? I highly doubt it. How about some compassion for those family members of the innocents that were slaughtered, how about allowing the authorities the information they may (agreed, we don't know if the info is pertinent at all) need to stop a future attack. I wonder if the senior management of Apple lost any friends or family in that horrible attack they would have the same opinion. I doubt it. Innocent people were slaughtered worse then cattle destined for the steak restaurant. Does that mean nothing to you?

[mfer]

Forget it.....I deleted.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Yeah... And what if it were personal, what if (GOD forbid) there is another attack that claims innocent victims, perhaps a (GOD forbid) member of your family? Would you feel as strongly against the sinister and power hungry FBI wanting this information? I highly doubt it. How about some compassion for those family members of the innocents that were slaughtered, how about allowing the authorities the information they may (agreed, we don't know if the info is pertinent at all) need to stop a future attack. I wonder if the senior management of Apple lost any friends or family in that horrible attack they would have the same opinion. I doubt it. Innocent people were slaughtered worse then cattle destined for the steak restaurant. Does that mean nothing to you?

Your "what if's" can be the basis to eliminate all freedoms and liberties. Would you support torturing innocent people in order to find a few bad ones?

Before you attempt to answer on my behalf, I wouldn't give any credit to anyone if they thwarted a terrorist attack by impinging on the freedoms of innocent people. That answer doesn't change just because it involves a family member. The reason for that is called principle.


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[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

It is very simple, Apple, give them the information from this phone. FBI, you will not get the entire unlock procedure for every IPhone in existence, but if a judge/court order tells you to do it for a specific instance, then do it.

It is just not possible.

This is what is needed to get into this model of iPhone:

1. Write custom OS stripped of delay and auto-erase after 10 tries and with some way of entering pass codes electronically(not known how to do the last item).

2. Sign OS with Apples root certificate.

3. Hand over to FBI.

4. Somehow load OS onto the iPhone(most likely possible via the USB port if it is signed).

5. Lots of time waiting while the FBI tries every possible combination to unlock it. This is why the possibility to enter the pass codes electronically is crucial.

Note that while it is possible to "sign" the custom OS to only work on that specific phone, you can modify it afterwards to make it work on any iPhone.


Newer iPhones has the delay between attempts in hardware so it is not feasible on them. A simple 4 digit pass code would take about a year. Note that it has been possible for quite some time to use an alphanumeric pass code of any length in iOS which makes it tremendously harder.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

It is just not possible.

This is what is needed to get into this model of iPhone:

1. Write custom OS stripped of delay and auto-erase after 10 tries and with some way of entering pass codes electronically(not known how to do the last item).

2. Sign OS with Apples root certificate.

3. Hand over to FBI.

4. Somehow load OS onto the iPhone(most likely possible via the USB port if it is signed).

5. Lots of time waiting while the FBI tries every possible combination to unlock it. This is why the possibility to enter the pass codes electronically is crucial.

Note that while it is possible to "sign" the custom OS to only work on that specific phone, you can modify it afterwards to make it work on any iPhone.


Newer iPhones has the delay between attempts in hardware so it is not feasible on them. A simple 4 digit pass code would take about a year. Note that it has been possible for quite some time to use an alphanumeric pass code of any length in iOS which makes it tremendously harder.

Frederick, you are probably 100% correct, my knowledge of encryption is .. Well... Close to zero. I understand AES 128 bit as I use it everyday in my work, but that's about it. I can barely operate my IPhone much less any kind of debugging it. I just believe there must be some way...

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

Your "what if's" can be the basis to eliminate all freedoms and liberties. Would you support torturing innocent people in order to find a few bad ones?

Before you attempt to answer on my behalf, I wouldn't give any credit to anyone if they thwarted a terrorist attack by impinging on the freedoms of innocent people. That answer doesn't change just because it involves a family member. The reason for that is called principle.


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I see, so you are saying that even if one of your loved ones (Thank GOD this did not happen) was a victim of that terrible attack, your opinion of this case would remain the same and you would not support the Feds forcing Apple to get this information. You are absolutely correct sir in saying I had no right to assume otherwise and I do apologize for answering on your behalf (that your opinion would be different). I was wrong. When I say a prayer tonight for those victims and their families I will include your family is protected from ever experiencing anything like that. And I will say a prayer for you as well, the contents of which are between me and the LORD.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

Yep. If Apple gives in and this backdoor is used under the Patriot Act, this changes everything. It would bundle nicely with the unfettered use of wire taps and internet surveillance happening today

be careful they are watching...

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I see, so you are saying that even if one of your loved ones (Thank GOD this did not happen) was a victim of that terrible attack, your opinion of this case would remain the same and you would not support the Feds forcing Apple to get this information. You are absolutely correct sir in saying I had no right to assume otherwise and I do apologize for answering on your behalf (that your opinion would be different). I was wrong. When I say a prayer tonight for those victims and their families I will include your family is protected from ever experiencing anything like that. And I will say a prayer for you as well, the contents of which are between me and the LORD.

Since you are bringing up "What Ifs". Please tell me, sticking to THIS CASE ONLY, how you feel the FBI getting that information will result in innocents being tortured? Seems to me my "what ifs" are more probable then yours.

First, I don't see how accessing this phone would change anything about the events of that day. Second, I don't see this as a victim vs non-victim issue nor do I see how having a family member involved would change the basis of my argument. It only makes it more personal and tragic. The government already has unlimited and unfetted resources to find terrorist threats. We should allow them to continue to do so without taking away the freedoms and liberties that made this country what it is.

Benjamin Franklin once said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" IMO for Apple to give in, we as a country would be giving up a whole lot for a shot in the dark.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by Etschell

be careful they are watching...

When I was typing my last response, my Mac froze up (which it never does) and I immediately thought of that same thing

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

First, I don't see how accessing this phone would change anything about the events of that day. Second, I don't see this as a victim vs non-victim issue nor do I see how having a family member involved would change the basis of my argument. It only makes it more personal and tragic. The government already has unlimited and unfetted resources to find terrorist threats. We should allow them to continue to do so without taking away the freedoms and liberties that made this country what it is.

Benjamin Franklin once said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" IMO for Apple to give in, we as a country would be giving up a whole lot for a shot in the dark.

Yeah, OK... Leaving families out of this you make sense. My two points:

1. What I have been trying to say, (obviously not very well) is that I DO NOT support the concept of the Feds having access to every IPhone or other device anywhere anytime, and that there must be some way, of granting them access to THIS phone without giving them the over-all skeleton key for any IPhone they desire. The technology is over my head, even though I am an Engineer in communications, but there has GOT to be some way to do it. Will it cost a lot of time and money? Probably, and Apple should charge accordingly.

2. Our elected Democracy has put in to place checks, balances and restrictions and requirements for tapping a phone or unlocking it or whatever. These are where a judge must be shown probable cause etc. (I am hardly a legal expert so will not embarrass myself but I DO know there are procedures and judges, sometimes panels of judges have to agree the cause is just to invade someone's privacy). Isn't this case, where innocent victims were slaughtered, a good cause to breach someone's privacy!?!?!? As long as the other requirements have been met, court order etc. If THIS is not a good enough reason to (after following the proper checks and balances and procedures) then what is!?!?!

As to what they will find? I have no idea, but this was a terrorist attack where people were killed, it is worth every effort to ensure it was not part of a plan for future attacks.

[seand442]

I am asking this as someone with no programming background. Hypothetically, if Apple were to devote a small group to modifying iOS for this phone under the close watch of the FBI or an outside law enforcement agency and once the software is modified and the information is obtained from the phone, all hardware and software related to this project is securely destroyed except for the phone.
I'm guessing I have over-simplified it but would that be feasible?
Be gentle.

[mailman]

Let's say it's possible for Apple to do it for just one phone.

What's to stop the government from hiring those who did it away from Apple. Then the Feds literally can run away with this info.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Yeah, OK... Leaving families out of this you make sense. My two points:

1. What I have been trying to say, (obviously not very well) is that I DO NOT support the concept of the Feds having access to every IPhone or other device anywhere anytime, and that there must be some way, of granting them access to THIS phone without giving them the over-all skeleton key for any IPhone they desire. The technology is over my head, even though I am an Engineer in communications, but there has GOT to be some way to do it. Will it cost a lot of time and money? Probably, and Apple should charge accordingly.

2. Our elected Democracy has put in to place checks, balances and restrictions and requirements for tapping a phone or unlocking it or whatever. These are where a judge must be shown probable cause etc. (I am hardly a legal expert so will not embarrass myself but I DO know there are procedures and judges, sometimes panels of judges have to agree the cause is just to invade someone's privacy). Isn't this case, where innocent victims were slaughtered, a good cause to breach someone's privacy!?!?!? As long as the other requirements have been met, court order etc. If THIS is not a good enough reason to (after following the proper checks and balances and procedures) then what is!?!?!

As to what they will find? I have no idea, but this was a terrorist attack where people were killed, it is worth every effort to ensure it was not part of a plan for future attacks.

The problem is they WILL abuse anything Apple gives them. The NSA wasn't supposed to be spying on millions of Americans in the US, but they were. They tried to spin it as only collecting meta data, but they were using that data against Americans.

The simple fact of the matter is that no US Government agency can be trusted to limit themselves to a one off. Someone within the organization will abuse the capability, innocent people will be irreparably harmed. And the USG will do a shoulder shrug and tell us the guilty federal employees will be reprimanded.

This is a classic slippery slope. Once Apple is forced to provide the government this capability, it will cascade into tools that look deep into your personal life and assign you to risk groups based on key words and your relationship with others. Once in a high risk group, you will never get out. You won't have recourse to defend your good name and your life, work, and destiny will be shaped by a federal bureaucrat's opinion of stored data, without ever having been interviewed.

[goin camping]

Did anyone else see that New York prosecuter who couldn't wait for the the back door. Said he had a whole box of apple phones he "needed" unlocked in case they held information he could use in criminal prosecutions?

U.S. agencies are already lining up to use the new toy they hope the court gives them. They already realize anything that what will open one will open them all.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Yeah, OK... Leaving families out of this you make sense. My two points:

1. What I have been trying to say, (obviously not very well) is that I DO NOT support the concept of the Feds having access to every IPhone or other device anywhere anytime, and that there must be some way, of granting them access to THIS phone without giving them the over-all skeleton key for any IPhone they desire. The technology is over my head, even though I am an Engineer in communications, but there has GOT to be some way to do it. Will it cost a lot of time and money? Probably, and Apple should charge accordingly.

2. Our elected Democracy has put in to place checks, balances and restrictions and requirements for tapping a phone or unlocking it or whatever. These are where a judge must be shown probable cause etc. (I am hardly a legal expert so will not embarrass myself but I DO know there are procedures and judges, sometimes panels of judges have to agree the cause is just to invade someone's privacy). Isn't this case, where innocent victims were slaughtered, a good cause to breach someone's privacy!?!?!? As long as the other requirements have been met, court order etc. If THIS is not a good enough reason to (after following the proper checks and balances and procedures) then what is!?!?!

As to what they will find? I have no idea, but this was a terrorist attack where people were killed, it is worth every effort to ensure it was not part of a plan for future attacks.

One of the things the FBI is asking for, which I imagine is intended to temper suspicion and/or to document that the data came specifically from this phone, is for the software file to be signed to this specific device. The problem with that is that it make sit very easy to just change that parameter to work on any iphone. In a perfect world, Apple could design a backdoor and keep it for safe storage until the need, such as this, arises but we don't live in a perfect world so I would rather err on the side of caution.

As for your second point, I don't want to cross that line of making this a political post but will say that the check and balances don't work 100% and There are abuses in just about every department. The Patriot Act has allowed certain agencies to forego the warrant typically needed for surveillance so I have very little faith that this would not be abused as well.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by mailman

Let's say it's possible for Apple to do it for just one phone.

What's to stop the government from hiring those who did it away from Apple. Then the Feds literally can run away with this info.

I'm not intelligent enough to give a definitive answer, but couldn't Apple change the security protocol so that whatever the Feds are given is useless after this change? I agree, it might be a major evolution, and cost lots, and also that Apple should charge the government lots for performing this procedure; I think they are entitled to it.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

One of the things the FBI is asking for, which I imagine is intended to temper suspicion and/or to document that the data came specifically from this phone, is for the software file to be signed to this specific device. The problem with that is that it make sit very easy to just change that parameter to work on any iphone. In a perfect world, Apple could design a backdoor and keep it for safe storage until the need, such as this, arises but we don;t live in a perfect world so I would rather err on the side of caution.

As for your second point, I don't want to cross that line of making this a political post but will say that the check and balances don't work 100%. There are abuses in just about every department and thats primarily due to the size of our government. The Patriot Act has allowed certain agencies to forego the warrant typically needed for surveillance so I have very little faith that this would not be abused as well.

Not sure I understand your first point, but I believe there has to be a way to break the phone, then change the standard security on IPhones that will render the procedure useless in the next IOS upgrade. This will be an expensive and perhaps major evolution, and Apple should be compensated by the Feds for doing this. But you can not convince me this is impossible.

As for two, completely agree the checks and balances are not 100% and there are abuses, I am not Naieve enough to believe it is perfect. However, this is a terrorist attack where innocent people were gunned down and massacred worse then animals in a slaughter house, and POSSIBLY (granted, I have no idea nor probably does anyone else) there are plans for further attacks that will also kill innocent human beings. So, if EVER there was a time to use our system, WHAT MORE could you possibly want to justify a legalized investigation in to someone's IPhone!? Do more people need to die? We are not talking about a traffic ticket for speeding, people's lives MAY (I agree the phone could lead to nothing) save future innocent lives. Use our system for this massacre, fight the lesser battles where innocent people will not be brutally murdered.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Not sure I understand your first point, but I believe there has to be a way to break the phone, then change the standard security on IPhones that will render the procedure useless in the next IOS upgrade. This will be an expensive and perhaps major evolution, and Apple should be compensated by the Feds for doing this. But you can not convince me this is impossible.

As for two, completely agree the checks and balances are not 100% and there are abuses, I am not Naieve enough to believe it is perfect. However, this is a terrorist attack where innocent people were gunned down and massacred worse then animals in a slaughter house, and POSSIBLY (granted, I have no idea nor probably does anyone else) there are plans for further attacks that will also kill innocent human beings. So, if EVER there was a time to use our system, WHAT MORE could you possibly want to justify a legalized investigation in to someone's IPhone!? Do more people need to die? We are not talking about a traffic ticket for speeding, people's lives MAY (I agree the phone could lead to nothing) save future innocent lives. Use our system for this massacre, fight the lesser battles where innocent people will not be brutally murdered.

This is the point Paul - it's always the brutal case that triggers the loss of freedom. Terrorism is the fear mongering flavor of the moment. Before terrorism there was the war on drugs and the cartels. Before that, it was the Soviet hoards and the missile gap. Before that, it was communist world domination.

There will always be something to fear that the Government will use as an exploit to gain control over the people. These trying times are precisely the moment to be wary of government action.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Not sure I understand your first point, but I believe there has to be a way to break the phone, then change the standard security on IPhones that will render the procedure useless in the next IOS upgrade. This will be an expensive and perhaps major evolution, and Apple should be compensated by the Feds for doing this. But you can not convince me this is impossible.

As for two, completely agree the checks and balances are not 100% and there are abuses, I am not Naieve enough to believe it is perfect. However, this is a terrorist attack where innocent people were gunned down and massacred worse then animals in a slaughter house, and POSSIBLY (granted, I have no idea nor probably does anyone else) there are plans for further attacks that will also kill innocent human beings. So, if EVER there was a time to use our system, WHAT MORE could you possibly want to justify a legalized investigation in to someone's IPhone!? Do more people need to die? We are not talking about a traffic ticket for speeding, people's lives MAY (I agree the phone could lead to nothing) save future innocent lives. Use our system for this massacre, fight the lesser battles where innocent people will not be brutally murdered.

Your solution, which you said was simple solution in an earlier post, is to 1) Write a new IOS in order to remove the security features in the current software to comply with the court order for a crime that was committed 2.5 months ago and 2) Write an all new security protocol and release it with the new iPhone.

Did you think about the possibility of another case popping up where the FBI again wants access to the phone the day after this new update is released? Did you you think about the time and cost of developing such a thing? This would fall under the unreasonably burdensome category of the court order not to mention the reasonable cost.

I'm not in the industry but in the one I work in, if we had to fix something on the current model, that would be a delay in years

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

Your solution, which you said was simple solution in an earlier post, is to 1) Write a new IOS in order to remove the security features in the current software to comply with the court order for a crime that was committed 2.5 months ago and 2) Write an all new security protocol and release it with the new iPhone.

Did you think about the possibility of another case popping up where the FBI again wants access to the phone the day after this new update is released? Did you you think about the time and cost of developing such a thing? This would fall under the unreasonably burdensome category of the court order not to mention the reasonable cost.

I'm not in the industry but in the one I work in, if we had to fix something on the current model, that would be a delay in years

You may be right, I think probably you are. And I am not intelligent enough on the subject to say definitively but knowing the incredible knowledge that a lot of engineers have, (about a million times smarter then I will ever be) I submit there must be a solution that will minimize, as much as possible, the cost and time of such a solution. I know that in my industry, we constantly make "fixes" and changes to the OS of our telecommunications systems that do not require a completely new version, that is why I believe Apple could also find some way to accomplish it (and of course, charge the government appropriately). THEY SHOULD AT LEAST MAKE THE ATTEMPT TO ASSIST IN SAVING FUTURE VICTIMS. You ask, "what about the next time" A fair question and I pray that there will never be another terrorist attack, but if there is, then the Feds and Apple will deal with that one in a similar matter. You presented a "what if" now here is mine, highly unlikely but possible:

There is another attack and humans are slaughtered, and it could have been prevented by the information in this phone. GOD forbid it is any of your family or friends but even complete strangers, they are innocent people. What, will you tell the loved ones of those victims? "Well, we might have been able to thwart this terrible tragedy but it would have been costly and difficult and MIGHT have invaded someone's privacy so we didn't bother" ?

I don't care if it was 2 1/2 months ago or 2 1/2 decades, this might contain information that will save innocent people, perhaps your friends or mine, from being murdered. That in itself dictates it must be attempted. Apple has held off granting the request until a court order (our system) compelled them to, I don't fault them for that, and I don't claim our system is perfect, but it is pretty darn good and until we democratically vote a change the best we have. For Apple to resist further is shameful, and tomorrow I am buying an android phone and tablet and throwing away my IPhone and IPad as my method of protest, just my Perogative.

Oh, and I failed to answer a question you posed to me earlier... Can't even find it now but you asked if I would support the torturing of innocent people.... Something along those lines. My answer is of course not, and I submit that your saying the breaking of this phone will result in the torturing of innocent people is about as far fetched as my scenario that it will thwart a future attack, but the possibility is there and must be investigated. Possibly some of the contacts in the phone that are completely innocent will be inconvenienced, to the point of being interviewed by the FBI. I have personally experienced this. The hour or so of time and being placed in an uncomfortable situation is far from torture, and a small price to pay for safety and security in this great country of ours.

[TheVTCGuy]

And although I am passionate about this topic, (pretty obvious huh?) I want to take a moment here and thank the mods and all the participants of this thread for keeping it open. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, keeping it respectful and the mods understanding has made it quite an interesting one!

Thanks

[77T]

I take no sides until the process has played out.

But I think the question hinges on a simpler premise by removing the technical aspects.

If, instead of owning an iPhone, this guy had written all his contacts in some esoteric encrypted code. And he did it with a pen on plain paper. And you supplied that pen and paper. Would you be comfortable being ordered to stop and immediately crack the code because that guy had used a pen and paper that you supplied?


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