How many of you went grey to purchase a Rolex since hype started?

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Pop Art Suzy

Thank you, that really helps a lot. I appreciate that.

Hi Suzy,

Just to expand a bit further. Technically the Grey Market refers to the sale of brand new items which have been sourced direct from the manufacturer but are not being sold through that manufacturer's authorised retail network. Such items would often be sold without warranty but would be deemed brand new, or would carry the full warranty terms from the date of purchase.

Rolex only supplies watches to its Authorised Dealer network, so technically the only way to purchase a brand new Rolex is via an AD.

We call them Greys for convenience, but in reality anyone selling Rolex watches from a business perspective that is not an AD is a used watch reseller. The watches may be unworn and to all intents and purposes "new" but they should all have been purchased by someone and the warranty clock will have started ticking as at the date of that original purchase.

As an example, the CHNR I bought last week from a reseller, whilst unworn and effectively brand new, has a card dated July 22 and I am its second owner. The upside is that as the warranty is transferrable and applies to the watch not the purchaser, the warranty is valid as the watch was originally supplied by an AD and the warranty registered.

As long as you are happy with the legitimacy of your "reseller" be that a bricks and mortar store or an individual selling ion eBay then it makes no difference where you buy from

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by minute_man

The only "irrational" thing in my view is paying 2x or 3x retail to middle-men who offer no value, just because they practically hijacked the supply chain and you need to flex.

I don't disagree.

If however you are paying a reasonable premium to a middle man, the value of whom is in his or her quality of service and ability to deliver the product you want, when you want it and not for reasons of "flexing" (as opposed to waiting months if not years) just because of market supply and demand leading to worldwide AD supply shortages, then there is nothing whatsoever irrational about "going grey"

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by BuddaLun

People want to feel good about THEIR decisions, that’s all. Some will come here and die on the “AD only” hill as evidenced by folks in this thread. Personally, I find it fascinating. Hopefully my tone was okay…!

Agree (and your tone was perfect my friend).

[dlrolex]

AD
Authentic
Not stolen
Thanks

[Reikolexguy]

I’ve bought from greys as well as the AD.

I Went grey for a champagne dial TT Sky-dweller. Paid 20% over MSRP. Made a small profit when I sold it at market peak.

I’d also received an allocation of my grail watch, the SS black dial sky-dweller from my AD.

Tony stark did quote his old man that no amount of money ever bought a second of time.

Budget permitting, I’d say just bite the bullet, go grey and be done with it. Especially if resale value is not a major concern.

Your money, your watch, your choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by Devildog

I don't disagree.

If however you are paying a reasonable premium to a middle man, the value of whom is in his or her quality of service and ability to deliver the product you want, when you want it and not for reasons of "flexing" (as opposed to waiting months if not years) just because of market supply and demand leading to worldwide AD supply shortages, then there is nothing whatsoever irrational about "going grey"

I agree with you and I fully understand how different folks may draw their own lines at different premium levels, depending on their circumstances and their local
market.

What makes sense to others as a reasonable premium, might not make sense to me.

Let me venture a bit further trying to quantify this on a personal level:

If we were talking 20-30% on top of retail, against prompt delivery, that would perhaps be something I could stomach if totally out of other viable options.

50% above retail is beyond what I would consiser fair for good services rendered.

2x or 3x retail falls well into scalping territory.

Why would people pay an arm and a leg at 2x or 3x retail is another story.

To each his own.

[Colnick]

Some people will pay 2-3x over retail because they want the watch and can afford it. No need to overthink this concept. if interested can do some research and learn why people buy luxury items.
Tim Mosso’s recent video talks about people who bought at the peak and are stressed because they are upside down on their watches. His advice is enjoy the watch and hold for now possible.
I paid a premium on my AO RO last year, could have sold at a profit but did not. interesting to follow the market value fluctuations and correlation with the financial markets. I smile when I wear my nice watches, including my AD purchased Rolex.

[Pop Art Suzy]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Hi Suzy,

Just to expand a bit further. Technically the Grey Market refers to the sale of brand new items which have been sourced direct from the manufacturer but are not being sold through that manufacturer's authorised retail network. Such items would often be sold without warranty but would be deemed brand new, or would carry the full warranty terms from the date of purchase.

Rolex only supplies watches to its Authorised Dealer network, so technically the only way to purchase a brand new Rolex is via an AD.

We call them Greys for convenience, but in reality anyone selling Rolex watches from a business perspective that is not an AD is a used watch reseller. The watches may be unworn and to all intents and purposes "new" but they should all have been purchased by someone and the warranty clock will have started ticking as at the date of that original purchase.

As an example, the CHNR I bought last week from a reseller, whilst unworn and effectively brand new, has a card dated July 22 and I am its second owner. The upside is that as the warranty is transferrable and applies to the watch not the purchaser, the warranty is valid as the watch was originally supplied by an AD and the warranty registered.

As long as you are happy with the legitimacy of your "reseller" be that a bricks and mortar store or an individual selling ion eBay then it makes no difference where you buy from

Thank you. I appreciate the clarification

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Colnick

Tim Mosso’s recent video talks about people who bought at the peak and are stressed because they are upside down on their watches. His advice is enjoy the watch and hold for now possible.

You do realize where some people paid 2-3x MSRP, it could well be DECADES before it is worth that again, or if EVER.

Way too many IG newbies and horology websites jumped on the trend of spewing nonsense like 'watches only go up in value and are investments' and treated them like meme stocks. It's actually pretty nuts if you historically look at so many of these timepieces, and what they were worth 10 years after ownership. Essentially none of them, I mean none, held value. and that's not holding value after accommodating for inflation, I'm simply referring to the price paid.

Can't stress enough, people should never treat watches as anything more than a hobby. If people bought watches they truly enjoyed and could financially afford to do so, they wouldn't be 'stressed' or even care about a drop in value. These people you speak of are 'stressed' because they were acting like bozos and considered them a store of value/an appreciating asset. I'm a broken record in saying that well over 50% of current watch buying population, bought stuff they simply thought they liked, due to the hype. Take away the price and they can't wait to get rid of it.

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by Colnick

Some people will pay 2-3x over retail because they want the watch and can afford it. No need to overthink this concept. if interested can do some research and learn why people buy luxury items.
Tim Mosso’s recent video talks about people who bought at the peak and are stressed because they are upside down on their watches. His advice is enjoy the watch and hold for now possible.
I paid a premium on my AO RO last year, could have sold at a profit but did not. interesting to follow the market value fluctuations and correlation with the financial markets. I smile when I wear my nice watches, including my AD purchased Rolex.

I know why I buy luxury items, thanks.

And where to draw my line

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by dmash

You do realize where some people paid 2-3x MSRP, it could well be DECADES before it is worth that again, or if EVER.

Way too many IG newbies and horology websites jumping on the trend of spewing nonsense like 'watches only go up in value and are investments' and treated them like meme stocks. It's actually pretty nuts if you historically look at so many of these timepieces, and what they were worth 10 years after ownership. Essentially none of them, I mean none, held value. and that's not holding value after accommodating for inflation, I'm simply referring to the price paid.

Can't stress enough, people should never treat watches as anything more than a hobby.

Originally Posted by dmash

Take away the price and they can't wait to get rid of it.

Well said.

[joa]

Originally Posted by minute_man

I know why I buy luxury items, thanks.

And where to draw my line

i think you simply can't keep your story straight...

on one day, anybody who pays above retail has just some need to "flex", next day, you yourself would suddenly be willing to pay up to 50% over MRSP

on one side, you wouldn't worry about a watch losing 100% of its value (you literally wrote it), but then again, overpaying for a watch is an unthinkable folly

on one day, a Rolex watch is a mass produced consumer good to you like a "pair of shoes", yet here you are nonstop at this site devoted to Rolex

don't bother to respond, as you yourself said 2 or 3 pages above: "carry on" - and let's not forget some icon to fake some cordiality

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by joa

i think you simply can't keep your story straight...

on one day, anybody who pays above retail has just some need to "flex", next day, you yourself would suddenly be willing to pay up to 50% over MRSP

on one side, you wouldn't worry about a watch losing 100% of its value (you literally wrote it), but then again, overpaying for a watch is an unthinkable folly

on one day, a Rolex watch is a mass produced consumer good to you like a "pair of shoes", yet here you are nonstop at this site devoted to Rolex

don't bother to respond, as you yourself said 2 or 3 pages above: "carry on" - and let's not forget some icon to fake some cordiality

I did not address you in the first place. You did quote a post of mine and keep picking on me thereafter for whatever reason only you know.

And by the way, none of my responses to your aggressive and snarky posts included any

I'm sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but the fact that none of it was addressed to you, but to others, doesn't make it fake. The contrary would.

You can have the last word. I'm done with you.

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

In some geographic areas, no matter how hard you "look", there is no "right relationship" for buying any Rolex at MSRP without spending a ton of money on over priced jewelry or watches you do not want, no matter how long you "wait for the watch."

In some geographic areas even spending on all the junk the AD wants you to buy won’t secure you a place in the line. I feel ya.

OP: I’ve recently had a rough couple of experiences with my closest AD and, despite trying probably 30 other ADs in various countries and provinces, it looks a lot like I’ll be forced into the grey marked if I want to pick up a watch.

While it’s fair to say that collectors, who can wait until the AD calls, have the time to sit out the list some of us just need to replace a broken watch with one off the shelf — which, these days, can only be done from a grey-market shelf.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Colnick]

Originally Posted by dmash

You do realize where some people paid 2-3x MSRP, it could well be DECADES before it is worth that again, or if EVER.

Way too many IG newbies and horology websites jumped on the trend of spewing nonsense like 'watches only go up in value and are investments' and treated them like meme stocks. It's actually pretty nuts if you historically look at so many of these timepieces, and what they were worth 10 years after ownership. Essentially none of them, I mean none, held value. and that's not holding value after accommodating for inflation, I'm simply referring to the price paid.

Can't stress enough, people should never treat watches as anything more than a hobby. If people bought watches they truly enjoyed and could financially afford to do so, they wouldn't be 'stressed' or even care about a drop in value. These people you speak of are 'stressed' because they were acting like bozos and considered them a store of value/an appreciating asset. I'm a broken record in saying that well over 50% of current watch buying population, bought stuff they simply thought they liked, due to the hype. Take away the price and they can't wait to get rid of it.

You bring up some good points. And the hype continues, watches that were 3x now 2x retail are “on sale”. It is a fun hobby but can get expensive quickly.
My first watch was 60 years ago, a Mickey Mouse watch, long since gone, wonder what it would be worth today.

[Son Goku]

Originally Posted by dmash

You do realize where some people paid 2-3x MSRP, it could well be DECADES before it is worth that again, or if EVER.

Way too many IG newbies and horology websites jumped on the trend of spewing nonsense like 'watches only go up in value and are investments' and treated them like meme stocks. It's actually pretty nuts if you historically look at so many of these timepieces, and what they were worth 10 years after ownership. Essentially none of them, I mean none, held value. and that's not holding value after accommodating for inflation, I'm simply referring to the price paid.

Can't stress enough, people should never treat watches as anything more than a hobby. If people bought watches they truly enjoyed and could financially afford to do so, they wouldn't be 'stressed' or even care about a drop in value. These people you speak of are 'stressed' because they were acting like bozos and considered them a store of value/an appreciating asset. I'm a broken record in saying that well over 50% of current watch buying population, bought stuff they simply thought they liked, due to the hype. Take away the price and they can't wait to get rid of it.

Very well said and so true.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by majidessa

Why do you think Rolex is still playing by the same old book rules years ago! Maybe AD margins is not as high as it used to be, ADs are selling all their inventory at full price and Rolex knows that so the smart think to do is reduce AD margins.

Few years ago Rolex used to give ADs high margins in order to allow them to discount the prices and move inventory so at the end their net margin was around 20%.

I’m not claiming to know anything for sure (as you seem to be). I do know based on conversations I’ve had with AD sales associates and even AD owners, they were buying at around 40% give or take.

Perhaps it has changed within the past few months or even years. Either way, it doesn’t change the fact that ADs are dropping like flies.

[BuddaLun]

Originally Posted by minute_man

And by the way, none of my responses to your aggressive and snarky posts included any

Aggressive and snarky? Boy, there are some sensitive folks on here, including the clown who mentioned my tone earlier. Seems you’re upset for being called out due to your conflicting viewpoints.

Edit: How could I forget:

[Chiboy]

I only read the last page of this thread. No surprise that it got confrontational. I can imagine what the first five pages were like, but since most threads here devolve into the same discussion, I don't really have to bother.

[BuddaLun]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

I only read the last page of this thread. No surprise that it got confrontational. I can imagine what the first five pages were like, but since most threads here devolve into the same discussion, I don't really have to bother.

LMAO! Yet, you still post at the end so I guess you did bother. Get off your high horse.

[thelinendial]

I've not bought anything current generation from grey. I just waited and got the watches I wanted - but guess I"m lucky.

Where I do go grey are for watches no longer available.

[Yobber76]

My first Rolex, a DJ 41 (126300), was bought in January of 2018 from a TS on this forum for a substantial discount.
All subsequent Rolex watches, (3) were bought from AD's at MSRP. The last one, was purchased in mid 2019.
I would never pay a big premium for a new or used watch. I expect my next watch probably won't be a Rolex.

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by BuddaLun

Aggressive and snarky? Boy, there are some sensitive folks on here, including the clown who mentioned my tone earlier. Seems you’re upset for being called out due to your conflicting viewpoints.

Edit: How could I forget:

I would humbly suggest you read and comprehend before posting.

And by the way, the member to which you refer to as a "clown" has responded to you in a very civil manner. Not that he needs any defense from me, just saying....

[Mystro]

This thread there is the “Glass is half full” ideology or the “Glass is half empty” ideology in buying a luxury watch.

Then there is the third buyer that doesn’t care and just wants to drink the friggen water and move on with their life because it’s only water.

[joa]

Originally Posted by minute_man

I would humbly suggest you read and comprehend before posting.

as usual, instead of clarifying or explaining his contribution to this thread, minute_man prefers to imply the other person simply has not "comprehended".
just great

[zab]

The only watch I bought grey was my submariner 124060 which I paid 25% above retail for.

Local collectors in my city would tell me that I would have to wait around 3 years or be prepared to buy a lot of stuff I don’t want.

A fool and his money are soon parted… but alas, I am a fool and that was the price I was prepared to pay for instant gratification.

Paying 2 or 3 times above retail for a watch, that is clownish!

[joa]

Originally Posted by Mystro

This thread there is the “Glass is half full” ideology or the “Glass is half empty” ideology in buying a luxury watch.

Then there is the third buyer that doesn’t care and just wants to drink the friggen water and move on with their life because it’s only water.

one issue here seems to be the misconception that as long as you buy at the AD you don't contribute to the current crazy market - that only those who go grey do.

just breathtaking. instead of looking into the mirror and facing the truth it's easier to find a scapegoat

[theflywrist]

Bought this from the grey last week for $11,750.
Can justify it 100% and have no issues if it tanks. Fortunately didn’t buy any overpriced stuff earlier this year.

I do have a feeling that we are long over due for a reset to a world where we don’t need to play games and convince our ADs to accept our hard earned money to buy a mass produced rolex.
There will always be premiums(sensible ones) on certain watches, but I believe times are and will continue to change.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Hi Suzy,

Just to expand a bit further. Technically the Grey Market refers to the sale of brand new items which have been sourced direct from the manufacturer but are not being sold through that manufacturer's authorised retail network. Such items would often be sold without warranty but would be deemed brand new, or would carry the full warranty terms from the date of purchase.

Rolex only supplies watches to its Authorised Dealer network, so technically the only way to purchase a brand new Rolex is via an AD.

We call them Greys for convenience, but in reality anyone selling Rolex watches from a business perspective that is not an AD is a used watch reseller. The watches may be unworn and to all intents and purposes "new" but they should all have been purchased by someone and the warranty clock will have started ticking as at the date of that original purchase.

As an example, the CHNR I bought last week from a reseller, whilst unworn and effectively brand new, has a card dated July 22 and I am its second owner. The upside is that as the warranty is transferrable and applies to the watch not the purchaser, the warranty is valid as the watch was originally supplied by an AD and the warranty registered.

As long as you are happy with the legitimacy of your "reseller" be that a bricks and mortar store or an individual selling ion eBay then it makes no difference where you buy from

You are totally correct. The problem I have with the improper use of the term "grey market" relative to used Rolex market which you suggest arose out of convenience is that to me it suggests to many people that ADs are involved in some underhanded activity in feeding the "grey market" which creates anti AD sentiments by some on the internet. This is bad for the brand, bad for the hobby and makes life for ADs miserable. It is actually the reason it is so hard for new buyers to obtain Rolex from ADs. They do not know new buyers and they fear they will immediately flip their new watch. To stop this, ADs tend to only sell to their known reliable collectors making matters worse. If everybody could just say "used watch" market, perhaps they might not be so quick to shell out big premiums for someone else's watch. I am amazed at the number of folks who buy a watch with the warranty running from a used watch dealer and will argue all day long they bought a new watch solely based upon its condition. Having said this, I only feel the term is unfortunate and mis-leading, the used watch market is a huge benefit to end users in the current situation. Every person who flips a watch creates a buying opportunity for someone else who wants that watch and is not able to procure one from an AD. They are best judge of what the watch is worth to them. Nobody had a problem with the used whatever market when stuff depreciated. Fact an item holds or increases in value on the used markets does not change the nature of the used markets for goods.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I have purchased from our trusted sellers long before and after the hype. Much perfer the experience as their professionalism is more in line to my expectations.

Dang, when was that screenshot saved?


I think the "value prop" on gray versus AD has to be evaluated for each circumstance. I recently got a 36 and 39 explorer 1 pair for less than two new 36s would have cost at msrp. And I prefer the 39 size over the 36, so going with the trusted seller was a no brainer in my book. But for other models it's not something I'm comfortable with given how variable to speculative prices are. A white Daytona has been between 25k and 50k in the last couple years while the msrp has been between 13k and 14k. That's just way too volatile for my blood.

I also feel like waiting on an AD provides a natural "brake" to the otherwise runaway train scenario which my watch obsession could allow for :)