32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Charles, my worthless 2-cents-try to help a bit …

- it is a new watch; do you already see some significant change over time?
- what is the reproducibility? (maybe too scientific for this place)
- to keep you busy ;-)) .... try 3 (better more) 5-position-measurements in a row.

I do NOT see any change yet - the watch is far too new to see changes that occur over time.

I will do another 2 or 3 PR tests to prove the reproducability situation one way or the other. But first, please can i wear my new watch for a few days so I can begin to enjoy it.

I will do a series of 5 position tests again soon, But not yet. I am enjoying looking at a White dial for a change.

[robinmgb]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

So you had a problem, you send it to RSC under warranty and they sort it, no big deal. That’s why you have warranty.

And yeh I agree, when these beauties stop running sweetly it’s a pain, but nothing more, these things happen unfortunately.

Unfortunately it’s not always as simple as that.
My 2019 DJ41 went back to Rolex in August 2020 to be sorted but within a couple of months later it had the same problem again.
I then sold it as didn’t want to be without a watch again, not all of us have collections so can’t rotate.
I certainly won’t buy a 32 series movement again as never had any issues with the older 30 and 31 series

[Andad]

Originally Posted by saxo3

I don't give him a real chance to wear his watch, it is mostly in dial up position, mea culpa!

[PekWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by robinmgb

Unfortunately it’s not always as simple as that.
My 2019 DJ41 went back to Rolex in August 2020 to be sorted but within a couple of months later it had the same problem again.
I then sold it as didn’t want to be without a watch again, not all of us have collections so can’t rotate.
I certainly won’t buy a 32 series movement again as never had any issues with the older 30 and 31 series

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by robinmgb

I certainly won’t buy a 32 series movement again as never had any issues with the older 30 and 31 series

I am sorry you had that bad experience with your 32xx and the RSC.

I have two 32xx watches (3235 in my Submariner Date and a 3285 in my Explorer II).

So far, and I do admit it is still early days, both watches are keeping excellent time.

I wonder if something has changed in the movement production.

There are slight differences visable in the timegrapher readings .. Especially with the second daily breakdown now "Missing" in the 3285 movement which is the newer of my two movements.

Don't give up on the 32xx series Its good and the extra PR is a definite plus for me.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by robinmgb

Unfortunately it’s not always as simple as that.
My 2019 DJ41 went back to Rolex in August 2020 to be sorted but within a couple of months later it had the same problem again.
I then sold it as didn’t want to be without a watch again, not all of us have collections so can’t rotate.
I certainly won’t buy a 32 series movement again as never had any issues with the older 30 and 31 series

Yeah I did the same with my ym. The dj though marked a special occasion for me so I need to hold on to it. I trust / hope Rolex will perma fix it next time.


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Please quote one post I've made in this thread that can in any way be construed as boasting or having a big ego. I'm just a diehard Rolex fanboy who is more than a little bummed that the only new model he ever bought had to be a lemon. Hardly a position to boast about.

And I did my homework assignment. In the past month I've made 34 posts, 7 in this thread. Doesn't seem too excessive to me. I think 6 of those 7 were replying to this kind of bs. So here's a crazy idea, all you guys who wish this thread would fade away, maybe stop bumping it with your replies?

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I know who is bumping the thread and it's nearly always a member of the Dream Team.
With posting links to this thread in other threads in order to potentially have it bumped by someone else outside the Dream Team and by default adding an air of legitimacy to it.
Also one particular member of the Dream Team directly bumping it after it drops out of prominence as well as making disparaging remarks about other peoples threads.
Then we have another member buying a new watch and posting about it when there's nothing wrong with it yet, just to keep padding the thread out for no good reason and no benefit to anybody or the forum in general, though I'm glad he got the bracelet set up just the way he likes it.

Jeff, I'm sorry to inform you but there has been nothing new of any value here for a very long time.
Sets of data collected.
Beautifully illustrated graphs.
Pictures of some gear with little idea.
Solicitation of potential contributors.
Etc, etc.
The thread had served its intended purpose within the first week or two, as you have more or less pointed out.
Sadly the thread has been kicked down the road on numerous occasions without any tangible or usefull benefit.

I must reiterate my initial support for the exercise, but I feel we have run into the law of diminishing returns here.
As a car guy I'm sure you are familiar with the concept

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by GBDiaz

Just wondering, I notice you guys are postings graphs and info that show the 3235 has some pretty big dips in amplitude towards the of the power reserve. Is this something that can be remedied with a fix from Rolex (if they find whatever is causing it)? Like would they change out the necessary parts to fix the issue if they found what is causing it?

The increased power reserve is a fairly controversial upgrade. Some seem to feel that it came at a cost of serviceability and stronger amplitude. Others argue that even if the final hours are dropping off significantly you are still ahead of the game as compared to a watch which would have completely stopped. All of the watchmakers seem to agree that this movement has reduced amplitude as compared to other generations. As well, Rolex does not seem interested in servicing the watch merely to increase the amplitude, rather only to correct poor timekeeping. I actually contacted them on this exact point when I noticed the low numbers on my new Sub. But because the timekeeping was still in spec they told me not to send it in.

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[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by GBDiaz

the 3235 has some pretty big dips in amplitude towards the of the power reserve. Is this something that can be remedied with a fix from Rolex (if they find whatever is causing it)? Like would they change out the necessary parts to fix the issue if they found what is causing it?

I am sorry I am late in answering you ... I didnt notice your post.

The BIG drop in amplitude at the end of the PR is normal and to be expected.

basically the watch is quite simply "Running out of steam".

Congratulations on your Submariner .. Wear and enjoy it in the very best of health.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by Dirt

I know who is bumping the thread and it's nearly always a member of the Dream Team.
With posting links to this thread in other threads in order to potentially have it bumped by someone else outside the Dream Team and by default adding an air of legitimacy to it.
Also one particular member of the Dream Team directly bumping it after it drops out of prominence as well as making disparaging remarks about other peoples threads.
Then we have another member buying a new watch and posting about it when there's nothing wrong with it yet, just to keep padding the thread out for no good reason and no benefit to anybody or the forum in general, though I'm glad he got the bracelet set up just the way he likes it.

Jeff, I'm sorry to inform you but there has been nothing new of any value here for a very long time.
Sets of data collected.
Beautifully illustrated graphs.
Pictures of some gear with little idea.
Solicitation of potential contributors.
Etc, etc.
The thread had served its intended purpose within the first week or two, as you have more or less pointed out.
Sadly the thread has been kicked down the road on numerous occasions without any tangible or usefull benefit.

I must reiterate my initial support for the exercise, but I feel we have run into the law of diminishing returns here.
As a car guy I'm sure you are familiar with the concept

Obviously we're all entitled to our opinions, but genuine question - does it really matter to you though if this thread is bumped up or not? I personally only comment on threads that interest me; others I just ignore...

From a personal perspective, my real interest on this thread is mainly the poll - in other words what percentage of owners have had problems with the 32xx movement. That's important consumer information IMO, and if it in any way speeds up Rolex finding a permanent solution then that can only be a good thing, can't it? I also think it's good for prospective buyers to have as much information as possible - forewarned is forearmed, etc.

I'm a huge watch fan, and a Rolex fan in particular - I own 5 Rolexes at the moment, and have owned an additional 3 in the past - so I really want this resolved because at the moment (through personal experience) I won't touch any new model that has a 32xx. Overkill? Maybe. But watches are an enjoyable hobby for me, so as soon as something makes it less enjoyable, I walk away. Hence why I've walked away from the 32xx for the time being.

So for me, seeing numbers of respondees to the poll slowly ticking over is a good thing. And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see that 25-26% with issues reduce over time as it would mean it was resolved. Surely that's all we all want isn't it?

[Annan]

Originally Posted by Driver8

Serious question - does it really matter to you though if this thread is bumped up or not? I personally only comment on threads that interest me; others I just ignore...

From a personal perspective, my real interest on this thread is mainly the poll - in other words what percentage of owners have had problems with the 32xx movement. That's important consumer information IMO, and if it in any way speeds up Rolex finding a permanent solution then that can only be a good thing, can't it? I also think it's good for prospective buyers to have as much information as possible - forewarned is forearmed, etc.

I'm a huge watch fan, and a Rolex fan in particular - I own 5 Rolexes at the moment, and have owned an additional 3 in the past - so I really want this resolved because at the moment (through personal experience) I won't touch any new model that has a 32xx. Overkill? Maybe. But watches are an enjoyable hobby for me, so as soon as something makes it less enjoyable, I walk away. Hence why I've walked away from the 32xx for the time being.

So for me, seeing numbers of respondees to the poll slowly ticking over is a good thing. And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see that 25-26% with issues reduce over time as it would mean it was resolved. Surely that's all we all want isn't it?

I agree with all your comments. Personally, I have owned two DJ41s, had problems with both, sold both and will not buy another 32XX until there is assurance any issues have been resolved. I'm not sure how that will come about but I continue to hope for word from our trusted watchmaker Bas as he promised he would. Until then I'm truly enjoying my new EXPII 216570 with 3187 movement. With proper overnight positioning it has been running at < +1s/day since March this year.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Driver8

Obviously we're all entitled to our opinions, but genuine question - does it really matter to you though if this thread is bumped up or not? I personally only comment on threads that interest me; others I just ignore...

From a personal perspective, my real interest on this thread is mainly the poll - in other words what percentage of owners have had problems with the 32xx movement. That's important consumer information IMO, and if it in any way speeds up Rolex finding a permanent solution then that can only be a good thing, can't it? I also think it's good for prospective buyers to have as much information as possible - forewarned is forearmed, etc.

I'm a huge watch fan, and a Rolex fan in particular - I own 5 Rolexes at the moment, and have owned an additional 3 in the past - so I really want this resolved because at the moment (through personal experience) I won't touch any new model that has a 32xx. Overkill? Maybe. But watches are an enjoyable hobby for me, so as soon as something makes it less enjoyable, I walk away. Hence why I've walked away from the 32xx for the time being.

So for me, seeing numbers of respondees to the poll slowly ticking over is a good thing. And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see that 25-26% with issues reduce over time as it would mean it was resolved. Surely that's all we all want isn't it?

I acknowledge your point

Interesting to note.
When the poll started there was an intial rush of respondents which pushed the numbers above the 30% mark who are seemingly having issues with their watches.
I'm sure you will agree anyway one looks at it, it's not a good set of numbers.

As Bas has previously made the commitment to keep the forum informed of the official status. I shall wait patiently.
After all, he will be able to let us all know literally months before we can work these things out through this thread.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by Dirt

When the poll started there was an intial rush of respondents which pushed the numbers above the 30% mark who are seemingly having issues with their watches.
I'm sure you will agree anyway one looks at it, it's not a good set of numbers.

Indeed. It's pretty stable at 25-26% at the moment, and has been for a while, despite a still slowly increasing number of respondees.

Originally Posted by Dirt

As Bas has previously made the commitment to keep the forum informed of the official status. I shall wait patiently.
After all, he will be able to let us all know literally months before we can work these things out through this thread.

True enough.

[myporsche]

Does anyone know how keeping it on a winder can affect these movement issues? Makes it better, worst, neutral?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Does anyone know how keeping it on a winder can affect these movement issues? Makes it better, worst, neutral?

My view is that it will reveal the issue sooner if there is an issue.


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[myporsche]

Originally Posted by amanbra

My view is that it will reveal the issue sooner if there is an issue.


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Does that apply if the watch has already been serviced/regulated?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Does anyone know how keeping it on a winder can affect these movement issues? Makes it better, worst, neutral?

I will depend upon the nature of "the issue".

If I were to hazard a guess, a watch winder can potentially accelerate a wear related issue as in the case before us with these new Rolex movements.
Naturally at the other end of the spectrum, if one were to keep the watch in it's box and never wear it. It will never have an issue.

Also I believe it has been reported in the past that a watch winder has actually cause a watch to become magnetised according to some people on watch forums.
Of course, that may be dependent upon the quality of the winder

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Does that apply if the watch has already been serviced/regulated?

For clarity.
Does your question directly relate to the problem with these new Rolex movements?

[myporsche]

Originally Posted by Dirt

For clarity.
Does your question directly relate to the problem with these new Rolex movements?

Isn't that the point of the thread, the new movements? If a movement has been "fixed" due the the issue, does putting it on a winder once it's fixed make it better, worst, or doesn't matter? Does the problem seem to reappear? If so, can it be related to winder use?

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Dirt

I will depend upon the nature of "the issue".

If I were to hazard a guess, a watch winder can potentially accelerate a wear related issue as in the case before us with these new Rolex movements.
Naturally at the other end of the spectrum, if one were to keep the watch in it's box and never wear it. It will never have an issue.

Also I believe it has been reported in the past that a watch winder has actually cause a watch to become magnetised according to some people on watch forums.
Of course, that may be dependent upon the quality of the winder

Yes, from what I understand, as explained to me from a CW23 (or whatever it is called) qualified watchmaker, a cheap winder can magnetize a watch.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Isn't that the point of the thread, the new movements? If a movement has been "fixed" due the the issue, does putting it on a winder once it's fixed make it better, worst, or doesn't matter? Does the problem seem to reappear? If so, can it be related to winder use?

The thing about it is that there is no permanent fix for this issue as far as we know.

Rolex fix you up as best they can to restore reasonable functionality, then send the watch back out there and worry about it again when or if the watch comes back.

A winder will likely accelerate the time period before it needs attention again
The point of the thread was to establish the prevalence of the issue and take it out of the realms of speculation in effect quantifying it.
Historically, the problem will reappear.

[Andad]

This thread seems to be a major concern to some members.

I must thank one member who has bumped it >113 times.

Keep up the good work.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

a cheap winder can magnetize a watch.

The newer movements in Rolex watches are much more Anti-magnetic or in other words not affected by magnetism as much as compared to watches from a few years ago.

The 32xx series of movements have the new less sensiitive to magnetism movements.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

The newer movements in Rolex watches are much more Anti-magnetic or in other words not affected by magnetism as much as compared to watches from a few years ago.

The 32xx series of movements have the new less sensiitive to magnetism movements.

Well there is not much difference in the construction of the 32 series over the 31 series, as both have the main-thing that's mostly affected by magnetism a parachrom hairspring which was first introduced in the Daytona cal 4130 way back in 2000.Although like any other movement there are other parts that could get magnetised, but today so easy to de-magnetise so should not be a big problem.

While in the Rolex video it states the Parachrom less prone to magnetism and is 10 time more shockproof, but what they don't state is to what. Most certainly not the Nivarox ones that they, and most of the watch industry have used for the past 50 odd years. And with magnetic test where they hold a powerful magnet over a open case on a watch. So in the real world if you don't wear your watch dial down with the case back off with a powerful magnet near any hairspring. Then I would doubt in the real world that it would make little or no difference whatever the name of hairspring in the case.

Now Nivarox that's the name of the alloy much like Rolex calls there Parachrom. Today it is used mainly in the watch/clock industry, but also in other micro-machine industries and in certain types of medical equipment and high precision surgical instruments. There are several variations of the Nivarox alloy depending upon the intended application. These alloys are stainless steel alloys with high concentrations of Cobalt (42-48%), Nickel (15-25%) and Chromium (16-22%). There are also small amounts of titanium and beryllium. Hairsprings made of this alloy are highly wear-resistant, and they are practically non-magnetic in normal daily wearing, and non-rusting and possess a low coefficient of thermal expansion.

Nivarox 1 through 5 is a series of grades of hairsprings with number 1 being the best quality. The most commonly encountered Nivarox hairsprings in the watch industry are grades 1 to 3. The alloy is unaffected by heat and normal every day ordinary magnetic fields. There is however, also the Anachron hairspring which is said to be of even higher quality than the Nivarox No 1 grade. Who knows perhaps that the grade that Rolex used over the past 40-50 odd years, before being mainly forced to make there own escapement parts.


Fact specs from Nivarox Far.

[padi56]

All information data supplied from my own 79 year old brain power, without the aid of loupes,timegraphers, phone apps, and the rest of todays Rolex watch toys, or to produce data for the sake of posting data

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Does anyone know how keeping it on a winder can affect these movement issues? Makes it better, worst, neutral?

Depends on the winder and how you can position the watch. What I have found is that most winders lay the watch upright but also back at a tilt. This is enough for the rotor to work but might not be enough of a angle in the resting position for optimal overnight accuracy. In other words, if 6 o’clock up is optimal accuracy for your own individual movement, you might find adjusting your watch strait up and down off the winder might give more of a resting position correction. What I’m saying is it’s not the winder because I’ve had 5 different 32 series movements and all of them are on my multihead winders without any issues other than absolute perfect over night resting positions. It’s a hyper small issue that only if you are ocd would notice with time keeping.

[jcatral14]

Got my 124060 last October. At first it was ok and loss/gain was negligible (I didn't track it seriously but it was holding). Then a few months later, it started losing time not dramatically but I lost about 1 minute in 4 weeks so I guess about -2s/day. I readjusted the time and observed it. Hasn't lost time since and is holding steady again.

I guess, bottom line, it's working perfectly. Just wanted to share

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have just finished a Power Reserve test on an Explorer II model 226570 which has a 3285 movement.

Here are some of the statistics:

The test was started at 22:00:00 on 17 July 2021.

The watch was in Dial Up position throughout the test.

The watch was fully wound at the start of the test and left for 15 mins before the start of the test for the watch to fully settle.

The temperture of the watch was a constant 29.6 Celsius.

The Timegrapher stopped after 69Hours: 55Mins at 19:55 on 20 July 2021.

The watch ran on to finally stop after 72Hours: 44Mins: 20Seconds at 22:44:20 on 20 July 2021.

At the same time as the Power reserve test I also ran a WatchTracker test. The printout will be uploaded shortly.

The total error in timekeeping from start over 72 hours (3 days) was -14.2 seconds.

I will add some graphs etc. when I have prepared them.

Charles, here is my corresponding graph for this test 2.
It displays your timegrapher plus Watch Tracker data.



Three 3285 amplitude breakdowns are clearly visible around midnight (date change), as for the 3235.

Next is a direct comparison between the previous test 1 and this test 2.



Both measurements were done under identical conditions in dial up position.

Obviously, the Watch Tracker data (= timekeeping) are significantly different for the two 72 hour long test runs.

Interesting results (at least for me) because it is a brand new 3285 watch purchased in July 2021.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

The newer movements in Rolex watches are much more Anti-magnetic or in other words not affected by magnetism as much as compared to watches from a few years ago.

The 32xx series of movements have the new less sensiitive to magnetism movements.

Be that as it may, we don't have the data or knowledge to establish the facts around that.

At this juncture, can I say that there is a highly respected watchmaker with a prominent internet presence who has stated that there a a number of parts which comprise a watch movement. Any of them can be affected by magnetism despite and aside from the resistance to magnetism of the Hairspring.
In summary, it's not just about the Hairspring

[saxo3]

Charles, here are your PR results (amplitudes, rates) for your two watches (Submariner, Explorer II) graphed and compared with a Sea-Dweller and GMT Master II.

Some of our results have text-book quality.



Pretty sure that no ordinary watchmaker has ever done or seen such high-quality measurements.

As we both know, they can't even do it within the present data quantity and resolution.