Where is the IWC Genta Ingenieur?

[ts3]

Originally Posted by gordon86

I love the new Ingenieur release and thought it was very well done especially the wearability.

However building on the comments by 2 other previous posts, I am also in the camp that the pricing doesnt make sense. On one hand, you have also a beautifully done Mark XX with the same movement in steel bracelet priced at 6150; on the other hand you have the Ingenieur priced at 11,700 almost double the price. I doubt the improvement in power reserve and better finishing justify almost double the price. It feels even more overpriced if you compare to the full bracelet pilot chronograph which is priced at 8500.

I think we sort of have to admit that there is a Gerald Genta/hype premium that is priced into this, which is fine and understandable from a marketing point of view. But to say otherwise I think is to try close an eye just because its such an iconic watch that everyone is waiting for.

The funniest moment in Wei Koh's interview with the IWC CEO is when Wei Koh wonders - without blinking an eye - why IWC UNDER-priced this watch at about half of the other players in the integrated bracelet sports watch market.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by ts3

The funniest moment in Wei Koh's interview with the IWC CEO is when Wei Koh wonders - without blinking an eye - why IWC UNDER-priced this watch at about half of the other players in the integrated bracelet sports watch market.

I saw that. He made clear why he was asking.

Let's assume that the case and bracelet finishing in your hand is comparable to the Antarctique which is just a hair below AP or VC. (I'll loupe mine and compare brush and polish texture and transitions in detail to my Vacheron when it arrives just as I did with my BB58 vs Rolex oyster bracelet).

Then it's down to the movement since neither brand has much name brand pricing power being outside the big 3 and Rolex (except one is a Genta). Let's say the built from scratch contract manufactured IWC whose base design in an old but slim and durable ETA has no value.

Is Czapek's movement worth $11,000 more than that?

New Chopard is $22k as well

For people like me with an Overseas or even RO I think the Ingenieur is a great tool watch instantiation of a real Genta watch, Rolex priced, and not just another integrated bracelet sports watch but an honest seat at the table.

Pricing was derived looking up at the competition not down at Mark XX like everyone wishes.

[clfinlo]

Steel 3227 is still one of my faves and the best modern Inge IMO. Just wish I had kept hold of it now.

[ACWATCHES]

I think the last gen iw3229 are better (and much cheaper currently) also 40mm and 10mm thick, comes with bonus rubber OEM also

[clfinlo]

I think the last gen iw3229 are better (and much cheaper currently) also 40mm and 10mm thick, comes with bonus rubber OEM also[/QUOTE]

Slimmer maybe but no 80110!

Although I prefer the fact that it has crown guards (as it is a top heavy door handle magnet) I find the dial less interesting and the 3227 navy sailcloths on a deployant where just the perfect marriage!

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Is Czapek's movement worth $11,000 more than that?

New Chopard is $22k as well
.

With context accounted for…absolutely both those movements are worth a 10k premium to what IWC is offering.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by GB-man

With context accounted for…absolutely both those movements are worth a 10k premium to what IWC is offering.

Then it's priced right

Honestly the bracelet design on either of those isn't for me or I'd already have one. They may very well be more finely made but I don't like the look, especially of the square Alpine Eagle links.

[Jorge Borbolla]

Originally Posted by ACWATCHES

I think the last gen iw3229 are better (and much cheaper currently) also 40mm and 10mm thick, comes with bonus rubber OEM also

Is funny how the new version is closer to the Georges Kern ingenieur than the Genta Ingenieur, honestly incredible.

So close to being perfect and dropped the ball on the design.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Jorge Borbolla

Is funny how the new version is closer to the Georges Kern ingenieur than the Genta Ingenieur, honestly incredible.

So close to being perfect and dropped the ball on the design.

The middle one?

Models are 1832, 3508, some 90s looking TBD one for my reference.

[deuxani]

I would like it better without crown guards though.

[Inseconds99]

Originally Posted by deuxani

I would like it better without crown guards though.

I like it both ways.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by deuxani

I would like it better without crown guards though.

That looks really nice too.

[Jorge Borbolla]

Originally Posted by deuxani

I would like it better without crown guards though.

This looks absolutely incredible!!!

[charger_vital]

Here is an interesting side by side of the titanium prototype from the 80s with today’s titanium version. The vintage version (also photo of it solo) is 34mm.

As for the modern steel, I think the black dials show the best in person.

The bracelet (proportion finishing etc) looks and feels far better in person than in the photos. Really nice job there. The crown guards are still ugly and definitely cheapens the look and feel of the watch. It’s even more painful to see in person.

Way overpriced at $12-13k. Looks like a $5-10k watch to me. Aside from that, its not bad.


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[EEpro]

Great pics! I'm starting to agree on the crown guards. My guess is on wrist I won't care so much (like the omega gas valve).

As far as pricing on this type of bracelet joma sells the IWC Chrono for far more than what people are saying this should sell for. I personally don't see how so many people think the new Ingenieur should be priced at $5-7k. Just my opinion I guess. Sure I'd prefer to have paid $10.7k but let's be honest most of watch pricing is BS anyway.

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by EEpro

As far as pricing on this type of bracelet joma sells the IWC Chrono for far more than what people are saying this should sell for.

But that's a chrono and the Ingenieur is just a time and date watch. So take away the chrono part and you end up at around 9k voor the Portugieser on the same bracelet. I personally don't care about the price of the Ingenieur, but I do understand why people are surprised.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by deuxani

But that's a chrono and the Ingenieur is just a time and date watch. So take away the chrono part and you end up at around 9k voor the Portugieser on the same bracelet. I personally don't care about the price of the Ingenieur, but I do understand why people are surprised.

Got it.

So it's potentially as high as a 30% Genta tax less inflation less any additional finishing / polishing steps done on the case and bracelet (I can see some addition bevels and alternating finish not on the Portugieser).

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Got it.

So it's potentially as high as a 30% Genta tax less inflation less any additional finishing / polishing steps done on the case and bracelet (I can see some addition bevels and alternating finish not on the Portugieser).

Yeah I think you could say that the dial design, the extra bevels and polishing, the bezel with it's structure and how it's connected to the case (most IWC's don't have a bezel at all), the anti-magnetism and a little Genta tax is how they justify a 4k higher price.

[Jorge Borbolla]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

Here is an interesting side by side of the titanium prototype from the 80s with today’s titanium version. The vintage version (also photo of it solo) is 34mm.

As for the modern steel, I think the black dials show the best in person.

The bracelet (proportion finishing etc) looks and feels far better in person than in the photos. Really nice job there. The crown guards are still ugly and definitely cheapens the look and feel of the watch. It’s even more painful to see in person.

Way overpriced at $12-13k. Looks like a $5-10k watch to me. Aside from that, its not bad.


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It's incredible how a 1980's design can look better than a 2023 design.
You're so right about the guards cheapening the look, it goes from a brutalist but formal style to a brutalist vanilla watch.

[ILoveFerrari]

well, 53k. not affiliated at all, but seriously!?

IWC Ingenieur Jumbo
$52,999
https://chrono24.app/iwc/ingenieur-j...US&SETCURR=USD

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[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by Jorge Borbolla

It's incredible how a 1980's design can look better than a 2023 design.
You're so right about the guards cheapening the look, it goes from a brutalist but formal style to a brutalist vanilla watch.

dont think the 1980s design is better.
the bubble date magnifying glass, the bezel that doesn't align, the thick case because of the soft iron cage.

i think the 2023 sits right between modern and the neo-vintage look.
crown guard made sense since it's supposed to be "engineer" watch.
the aligned bezel looks way better, there to compete with AP.
the way thinner case that sits comfortably inside a shirt cuff.
of course the 40mm size, 34mm is too small for today's standard.

you guys gotta stop complaining about the price. AP charges way more for a steel watch and nobody seems to be complaining.

[rolexgs]

not a good looking watch indeed, especially the crown guards do not match the design of the whole watch.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by trackingtime

dont think the 1980s design is better.
the bubble date magnifying glass, the bezel that doesn't align, the thick case because of the soft iron cage.

i think the 2023 sits right between modern and the neo-vintage look.
crown guard made sense since it's supposed to be "engineer" watch.
the aligned bezel looks way better, there to compete with AP.
the way thinner case that sits comfortably inside a shirt cuff.
of course the 40mm size, 34mm is too small for today's standard.

you guys gotta stop complaining about the price. AP charges way more for a steel watch and nobody seems to be complaining.

No offense, but this watch doesn't really compete with an AP in anyway. Different build quality and design class altogether.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

Here is an interesting side by side of the titanium prototype from the 80s with today’s titanium version. The vintage version (also photo of it solo) is 34mm.

As for the modern steel, I think the black dials show the best in person.

The bracelet (proportion finishing etc) looks and feels far better in person than in the photos. Really nice job there. The crown guards are still ugly and definitely cheapens the look and feel of the watch. It’s even more painful to see in person.

Way overpriced at $12-13k. Looks like a $5-10k watch to me. Aside from that, its not bad.


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That 80s version, while still not stunning, does have a lot of charm. For a watch defined by circles, those crown guards throw the whole unified theme completely off. Why didn’t they just scale this or the original up to 40mm (I’d prefer 38mm, but I’d get it) and call it a day? It’d be lazy, but it’d also make the best modern version of a forgotten classic.

[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by trackingtime

dont think the 1980s design is better.
the bubble date magnifying glass, the bezel that doesn't align, the thick case because of the soft iron cage.

i think the 2023 sits right between modern and the neo-vintage look.
crown guard made sense since it's supposed to be "engineer" watch.
the aligned bezel looks way better, there to compete with AP.
the way thinner case that sits comfortably inside a shirt cuff.
of course the 40mm size, 34mm is too small for today's standard.

you guys gotta stop complaining about the price. AP charges way more for a steel watch and nobody seems to be complaining.

+100

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[alllexandru]

Originally Posted by trackingtime

you guys gotta stop complaining about the price. AP charges way more for a steel watch and nobody seems to be complaining.

AP it is in different league, in terms of recognition etc etc

comparing the iwc with AP and VC, because they have a watch design Genta doesn’t mean they are equals

And yes, the old one looks better than the 2023 edition.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by ts3

The funniest moment in Wei Koh's interview with the IWC CEO is when Wei Koh wonders - without blinking an eye - why IWC UNDER-priced this watch at about half of the other players in the integrated bracelet sports watch market.

Wei Koh is delusional. He's completely out of touch with the world.

He's not into watches, he's into expensive jewelry, trinkets and clothing.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Wei Koh is delusional. He's completely out of touch with the world.

He's not into watches, he's into expensive jewelry, trinkets and clothing.

He’s fun to watch tho lol

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by ts3

The funniest moment in Wei Koh's interview with the IWC CEO is when Wei Koh wonders - without blinking an eye - why IWC UNDER-priced this watch at about half of the other players in the integrated bracelet sports watch market.

Yeah…. he said the same exact thing verbatim to Laurent Ferrier a few years ago when he interviewed him about one of his watches. It’s his go to when trying to flatter the watchmaker.

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

AP it is in different league, in terms of recognition etc etc

comparing the iwc with AP and VC, because they have a watch design Genta doesn’t mean they are equals

And yes, the old one looks better than the 2023 edition.

that's why IWC isn't charging over 25k for their "genta" designed watches
lol AP has been riding that genta design for as long as they can.
don't get me wrong, no hate on APs, i have a couple of them and i love them.

nobody is comparing with VC (i assume you're referring to the overseas) because it's not a genta design, not sure why did you bring that up?