32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Michael,

so how long after resting did you take these measurements?

DU at 250 amp isn't the best if that's full wind but I suspect you took it off overnight and then put it on the timegrapher at 10am?

[Andad]

Hi Michael,

What was the power reserve when your readings were taken?

[Michael N Q8]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Hey Michael,

so how long after resting did you take these measurements?

DU at 250 amp isn't the best if that's full wind but I suspect you took it off overnight and then put it on the timegrapher at 10am?

I cannot say exactly, but it was definitely not at full wind. For the next test, I will wind it fully and take more readings to get a full pic. This was just a quick test to see how it was performing 16-17 months after the service.

[Michael N Q8]

Originally Posted by Andad

Hi Michael,

What was the power reserve when your readings were taken?

As noted above, this was definitely not at full power reserve, and I cannot say for sure how long, I will do more tests as I stated above.

[Andad]

The amplitude on my DJ 41 varies considerably depending on the power reserve.

Without knowing your power reserve when the readings were taken the results don’t give me much to go on.

When you say 16-17 months after service how often has it been worn and how long has it been running during this time?

[Michael N Q8]

Originally Posted by Andad

The amplitude on my DJ 41 varies considerably depending on the power reserve.

Without knowing your power reserve when the readings were taken the results don’t give me much to go on.

When you say 16-17 months after service how often has it been worn and how long has it been running during this time?

I agree with you, so I will do a proper test this week. Regarding use, I have a fairly "decent" collection and have been wearing one of the daytonas often. I would say the BLRO has been used about 30-40 days over the last 16-17 months, so not often.

[CharlesN]

A number pf people, can I call them “Non-Believers”, have questioned the validity and point of all the measuring etc that a few of us have done on the 32xx movements over the last many months.

Several things have been learnt by those who have followed the analysis etc of the collected data.

Apart from there now being pure concrete proof of a fault that develops over time, Usually beginning after one year, we now seem to have the ability to see into the future.

By this I mean that it is relatively simple to predict how much a watch will be wrong by over a prolonged length of time.

This is all done by using what else but our favourite Graphs.

I have attached below a graph for my Explorer II that has a 3285 movement. This watch is now about 14 months old - In other words it has already entered the “Rolex World of going faulty”.





I have measured my Explorer II over a few days and carefully logged the error and timekeeping. This data is now presented to you in the form of the graph above.

You can see the rise and fall of the timekeeping of the watch. The watch is question looses every day and gains every night as it is left in the CH (Dial Up) position.

The rates are for a daytime wearing rate of -4.4 seconds per day at the slowest and at overnight rest a gain of 3.1 seconds at the fastest.

Temperatire obviously has an effect as well ... Chilling the watch, possibly by using an ice pack would speed the watch up and therefore reduce the error.

The average for a 24 hour period is -1.4 seconds per day loss.
thats a weekly loss of -9.8 seconds per week
or an average in a 30 day month of -42 seconds

These figures are only true for the current and perhaps next month as the “fault” seems to be getting worse the therefore error will undoubtedly increase.

So now we can see and understand why data taking, recording and analysing is of a benefit to anyone interested in reasonably precise timekeeping.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

I agree with you, so I will do a proper test this week. Regarding use, I have a fairly "decent" collection and have been wearing one of the daytonas often. I would say the BLRO has been used about 30-40 days over the last 16-17 months, so not often.

Based on your wear time I don’t think more data is of any value.

I think the problem with this movement is based on wear and this is why many owners are reporting no issues.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Andad

Based on your wear time I don’t think more data is of any value.

I think the problem with this movement is based on wear and this is why many owners are reporting no issues.

Hey I think we have had cases were watches that weren't worn much still showed issues.

My YM40 126655, as it was a gold watch I did wear very sparingly to and the issues did turn up at about 10 months or so. I'd estimate 10x more wear on the DJ vs my YM.

[saxo3]

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...2&postcount=11
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=2165

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Hey I think we have had cases were watches that weren't worn much still showed issues.

My YM40 126655, as it was a gold watch I did wear very sparingly to and the issues did turn up at about 10 months or so. I'd estimate 10x more wear on the DJ vs my YM.

But what if the watch is kept on a watch winder when not worn and shows no change or issues? This would mean the watch was kept constantly running even more if a watch was allowed to stop occasionally. If actual movement running duration is a factor, a watch kept on a winder should easily accelerate any issues so movement time running isn’t necessarily a factor either. I guess logging actual movement run time would be more important than watch ownership time if your watch isn’t kept on a watch winder.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Mystro

But what if the watch is kept on a watch winder when not worn and shows no change or issues? This would mean the watch was kept constantly running even more if a watch was allowed to stop occasionally. If actual movement running duration is a factor, a watch kept on a winder should easily accelerate any issues so movement time running isn’t necessarily a factor either.

Originally Posted by amanbra

Hey I think we have had cases were watches that weren't worn much still showed issues.



My YM40 126655, as it was a gold watch I did wear very sparingly to and the issues did turn up at about 10 months or so. I'd estimate 10x more wear on the DJ vs my YM.

Keeping mine running has helped IMO. Letting mine rest awhile and wake up is when the -15 spd begins for me. I keep my Pepsi gently swinging on an orbita and 2 years later it's keeping tenths per day.

Has anyone had this problem arise on a watch that was kept running continuously?

I think it's lube migration as nothing else changes except lube when left resting.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Mystro

But what if the watch is kept on a watch winder when not worn and shows no change or issues? This would mean the watch was kept constantly running even more if a watch was allowed to stop occasionally. If actual movement running duration is a factor, a watch kept on a winder should easily accelerate any issues so movement time running isn’t necessarily a factor either. I guess logging actual movement run time would be more important than watch ownership time if your watch isn’t kept on a watch winder.

Believe it or not that’s a data point we don’t have a good handle on…i wear my watches in rotation except my DJ which was my daily work beater at the time. The issues all sort of happened in the same time frame…

Overall in this thread wear time etc hasn’t been explicitly discussed, just assumed.

Edit: a data point on the is a sparingly wear my yellow OP, well over a year rock solid.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Keeping mine running has helped IMO. Letting mine rest awhile and wake up is when the -15 spd begins for me. I keep my Pepsi gently swinging on an orbita and 2 years later it's keeping tenths per day.

Has anyone had this problem arise on a watch that was kept running continuously?

I think it's lube migration as nothing else changes except lube when left resting.

That’s interesting, no, only have one watch as an example of heavily worn but def no constantly running…

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Keeping mine running has helped IMO. Letting mine rest awhile and wake up is when the -15 spd begins for me. I keep my Pepsi gently swinging on an orbita and 2 years later it's keeping tenths per day.

Has anyone had this problem arise on a watch that was kept running continuously?

I think it's lube migration as nothing else changes except lube when left resting.

That is a very good new data point.

Heck, I had a TT Sub run constantly for 15 years on winder or on wrist even without a service and still had no additional wear when I did do it’s first routine service at the 15 year mark.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Keeping mine running has helped IMO. Letting mine rest awhile and wake up is when the -15 spd begins for me. I keep my Pepsi gently swinging on an orbita and 2 years later it's keeping tenths per day.

Has anyone had this problem arise on a watch that was kept running continuously?

I think it's lube migration as nothing else changes except lube when left resting.

Interesting you say that.

I've always felt that mine would run worse (slower) after letting it stop and then wind and restart.

Like if it was running at -4, after I let it stop and restarted it, it would be at -7 or -8 for a while - most times settling back to running less slow.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

Interesting you say that.

I've always felt that mine would run worse (slower) after letting it stop and then wind and restart.

Like if it was running at -4, after I let it stop and restarted it, it would be at -7 or -8 for a while - most times settling back to running less slow.

After restarting, do you go right back to wearing it, or let it sit?

[CHRONOLEX]

I don’t have any fancy computer outputs but can say that it appears my new 3235 is running about +1.5 seconds/day fast. At least it’s not slow.

[Michael N Q8]

I have some more readings from my BLRO. Just as a reminder, this had the problem and was serviced last year (April). As noted I have worn it sparingly. I wound it fully and took readings and then left it dial up and took readings the next day (30 Aug). I will take more tonight. Anyway the results are as follows. The amplitude does seem to be quite low?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

I have some more readings from my BLRO. Just as a reminder, this had the problem and was serviced last year (April). As noted I have worn it sparingly. I wound it fully and took readings and then left it dial up and took readings the next day (30 Aug). I will take more tonight. Anyway the results are as follows. The amplitude does seem to be quite low?

Yes, the amplitudes are low.

Charles and I measured the fact of pronounced amplitude dips, all along the power reserve.

They are reproducible and always appear in the time periods 23:00 – 01:00 (date change) and between 05:00 – 08:00.

Avoid these time periods for timegrapher measurements.

[saxo3]

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

I have some more readings from my BLRO. Just as a reminder, this had the problem and was serviced last year (April). As noted I have worn it sparingly. I wound it fully and took readings and then left it dial up and took readings the next day (30 Aug). I will take more tonight. Anyway the results are as follows. The amplitude does seem to be quite low?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Okay so for me is what is interesting is I've never seen a DU amp that low but with a corresponding CD position so high.

For all 5 of my watches that went bad when DU was 250 the CD/CU amps were teetering on 200 give or take...

But yeah though your timing is fine them amps are a tad low, you did set your lift angle correctly yeah?

[Michael N Q8]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Okay so for me is what is interesting is I've never seen a DU amp that low but with a corresponding CD position so high.

For all 5 of my watches that went bad when DU was 250 the CD/CU amps were teetering on 200 give or take...

But yeah though your timing is fine them amps are a tad low, you did set your lift angle correctly yeah?

I used 53° as suggested for this movement.

[saxo3]

Hello Michael, below is a comparison of your 126710 BLRO (left Table) with my 126600 (right Table).



Your watch has low amplitudes in vertical and horizontal positions. The X and D are very good (I neglected your 12H results).

I can imagine that your watch still keeps good time, right? I would check that for a few days using Watch Tracker. Do you have timegrapher data when your BLRO came back from RSC repair in April 2021? That would be interesting to compare.

My watch has clearly decreased in performance, which started end 2021. I observed a significant drop in vertical amplitudes, the horizontal amplitudes are still high. Anyhow, the timekeeping is also very good: it loses every day a few seconds on my wrist and gains back a bit more overnight in DU position, with a net effect of +0.5 sec/day (perfect!)

I claim that the issue of your 3285 watch is not solved yet.

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by saxo3

great insight

[Michael N Q8]

I have another set of readings…

As of the last test the watch had actually gained 12 seconds in the 48 hours, and the amplitude well under 200 and the beat error increasing.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Michael N Q8]

Regarding the performance comparison directly after the service and now, fully wound. It seems the amplitude is significantly lower now but the time keeping doesn’t seem to be affected. These movements are weird.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

Regarding the performance comparison directly after the service and now, fully wound. It seems the amplitude is significantly lower now but the time keeping doesn’t seem to be affected. These movements are weird.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

340 amp??? we have a new record holder. For me that seems like a bad readings here. We have never seen this before.

Also the timings you posted after you wore the watch but at unknown pr had higher amp vs your full wind.



This was the record until now

My highest vertical amp has been 271

[Michael N Q8]

Originally Posted by amanbra

340 amp??? we have a new record holder

That was surprising...I use the iPhone app, so maybe not the best

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

That was surprising...I use the iPhone app, so maybe not the best

Oooooooooo

Okay I think that might be the source of these weird numbers.

Ah what a shame.

Hey your watch is keeping good time on the wrist. Go enjoy it. I always discovered the issue after I noticed slowdown on the watch tracker app.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk