Need help with pricing on a used Submariner

[brigadeer]

I am in the market for a used Rolex Submariner. Being my first expensive watch purchase ever, I started out extremely budget conscious and was looking at Air Kings and DateJust's only.

After spending the last week or so actually going into stores and looking at them in person, I found that the right watch for me is the Submariner. I love the look, the size, and the feel of it.

A local shop has one that I am interested in. It is a D-Series 16610(T?). I believe that places the watch being made sometime in 2005. This is exactly what I have been looking for, a newish used watch.

He had the watch stickered at $4,899, which is way high, and he knew it. Once he saw that I was a legitimate serious buyer and was interested in the watch, he voluntarily threw out that we could work on the price and get it down close to $4,000.

I am not expert by any means, but I visually inspected the watch and did not find anything that stuck out in the way or scratches or dents, etc. So the watch looks to be in fine physical and working condition. The watch however does not come with any papers or a box. To be completely honest, I could care less about either. I do however think that helps me when it comes to negotiating price.

I fondled the watch for awhile and as I was getting ready to leave the store, I mentioned that if I were to purchase any watch from him, that it would be in cash. He eyes lit up like a Christmas Tree and then said something to the effect that he could really work a deal for me.

I'm hoping you all can help me out here in regards to formulating an offer on the watch, taking my above description at face value. I can purchase this same watch new from an online dealer, or even through a seller here in these forums for about $5,000, give or take a few bucks, so that is where I start.

The watch is 5 years old, and does not have any papers or a box. All that being said, I thought to take 25% off the top of the $5,000 starting point, and arrived at $3,750.

Obviously I don't know what this shop has into this watch, so I imagine that will have a lot to do with how much he can or can't work with me on the price. That said, given what information I have provided to you on the watch thus far, does $3,700-$3,900 seem like an unreasonably low offer to you guys?

I initially was only mentally budgeting about $3,000, but might be willing to spend more in this case given that the watch is only 5 years old.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help!

[CPTL]

You should be able to get a good condition D-serial 16610 with box and papers for under $4k from a private seller; probably $4200 from a dealer. Add maybe $300-$400 if it's freshly serviced (within 1 year).

Box and papers are part of the "total package" that most purchasers are looking for. It's hard to put a value on the box and papers themselves...you can get a box for probably $100, and you'll get adequate papers if you send the watch to a Rolex Service Center for service (and the watch is deemed authentic). But most buyers want the total package, so watch-only deals can sit around for a while, causing the seller to eventually reduce the price by $300 or so.

Here are the things I would be thinking about:

1. Watch will need service soon. Rolex recommends service every 5 years; that can be stretched on modern watches (that use newer, better lubricants) to about 7-8 years by most accounts. However, the Sub will at least need a pressure check before you wear it in the water. Service will cost you around $500. I don't know about pressure check--maybe $100 if you can find a local watchmaker to do it for you.

2. Papers: not incredibly important, but does help with the resale value of the watch as most buyers want the complete package. Note that once you send the watch to Rolex for service, they will give you service papers which are equally good for guaranteeing the authenticity of the watch.
3. Box: again, not incredibly important if all you're going to do is wear it, and you can pick up a box and all the trimmings for about $100. Still, the "total package" purchase includes this, and you can find a "total package" D-16610 for $4K.

Obviously, as a first-time buyer, you're concerned about a long-distance transaction and you want to be able to hold the watch. It's also hard to walk away from the one you want when it's in your hand and you have cash in your pocket. There are a ton of great sellers here on the forum though, and Subs aren't that hard to come by. If you really want the best deal, I don't think the watch you're holding is it at $4K.

I might offer him $3700--cash--and be prepared to pay NO MORE than $4K, and that's only because you really want it right now.

[CPTL]

Originally Posted by brigadeer

It is a D-Series 16610(T?). I believe that places the watch being made sometime in 2005.

I don't know what the "T" designation is. The D-series 16610 was probably sold originally between 2005-2006. The dial will have superluminova markers (not tritium) with white gold surrounds. The bottom of the dial (below the 6 o'clock position) will say "SWISS MADE." If it says something different (i.e. if there is a "T" in the writing on the 6 o'clock), then either the dial has been changed, it's not a D-serial, or it's not genuine.

[brigadeer]

Thanks a lot for your detailed response. That really helps a lot.

I really like the watch obviously, but I'm not dead set on any particular one. To your point, there are a lot of them out there to be had.

My thought was, what would be a really good deal on the watch, and see if I can get it. If I can, great. If not, I continue to look.

I keep hearing how a good independant watchmaker or the Dallas RSC can take a watch and pretty much restore it back to brand new looking. That being said, I had already planned on sending whatever I purchase (unless it specifically states it has recently been serviced) off to be serviced.

I'm thinking I might start off at $3,500 and go from there, hoping that my initial offer isn't too insulting. To your point again, I can pick up a box for $100 down the line if I want to. For now, I'm hoping I can use the lack of either papers or a box to get a really good deal on what it is I really want anyway, that beautiful Submariner!

[Tools]

I think taht 3900 is about the right price range for a D Sub.. All Subs with a T between the lugs means it has no through holes, so it is marked correctly..

You almost never find Rolex watches with a boxes or any "papers" from Dealers...

[sakuraba]

I agree with Kevin and Larry, price range should be below $4000. Your price point of $3500 would be a realistic bargaining starting point.

I am not a box and papers man myself, but going by experience there is a high likelihood of you flipping your first watch down the road. With this in mind, I would want a complete package to make the eventual sale as easy as possible. That or get it as cheap as you can.

Hope this helps.

[hennabav]

I personally would probably offer the guy $3500 or less depending on condition given the Sub is not a rare watch and on top of that, there's no boxes or papers. To me and lots of collectors, those matters a lot as I feel they add to the authenticity of the watch.

[CPTL]

Originally Posted by Tools

All Subs with a T between the lugs means it has no through holes, so it is marked correctly..

Larry, I'd never noticed this before. Or if I had, it didn't register for me what it meant. Thanks!

Originally Posted by hennabav

I personally would probably offer the guy $3500 or less depending on condition given the Sub is not a rare watch and on top of that, there's no boxes or papers. To me and lots of collectors, those matters a lot as I feel they add to the authenticity of the watch.

I get what you're sayin.... But I don't think B&P adds anything to the "authenticity" of the watch. Papers are just papers--they can be faked easier than the watch. On top of that, with a full service you'll get a service record from an RSC that is equally valid in establishing authenticity. Likewise a box is just a box; I can buy ten of them on the forum today.

It does add to the comfort factor of the purchase, to be sure.