Milsub Moral Dilema What Would You Do???

[koronet-kid]

Hello Guys,

This is a hypathetical question, would like know your thoughts if this ever happened to you.

say you were lucky enough to meet some one who owned an original military issue submariner, but heres the twist they dont know how valueable it is and they are happy to sell it to you for the price of a regular sub.

would you buy it for that low price, or would you pay a bit more, or would you tell the owner the true value. this should sort the men from boys.

my veiw is that if you have the knowledge and you can buy it at far less than its true value then thats ok. some might agree some might not just curious as to what you guys think.

regards

sean

[Sweramic]

I would tell him about the real value immediately, without doubt.

[dweller]

yeah I would tell him about its value, esp if it was his origional service watch..

would eat me up screwing over a vet. not to mention the bad karhma..

now if after knowing its a 60k++ watch and still offered it for the price of a new sub then

[HL65]

Absolutely tell him the truth--what if it were the other way around?

[Subfiend]

Tell the truth.

[LouS]

Not telling him strikes me a seriously non-TRF way to be. One of the reasons I like to check in here is the absence of 'sharp dealing.' Agree about the bad karma too. That'll catch up to you.

[kjb]

I would have to tell him what he has or I wouldn't feel right about. Maybe he will still give you a good deal if you are honest about it.

[valentine]

sorry...but I DISAGREE. it is the sellers responsibility to do the necessary research in order to decide on an appropriate selling price! and without an MSRP, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And "sort the men from boys??" come on, dude...If someone walks up to me with a milsub, and says "im looking to sell..i want 3 grand..." they get their 3 grand and I walk away....and make a nice profit. thats not being dishonest..they named their asking price..i accepted, paid it, and thats the end of it.

[srgriff]

Originally Posted by valentine

sorry...but I DISAGREE. it is the sellers responsibility to do the necessary research in order to decide on an appropriate selling price! and without an MSRP, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And "sort the men from boys??" come on, dude...If someone walks up to me with a milsub, and says "im looking to sell..i want 3 grand..." they get their 3 grand and I walk away....and make a nice profit. thats not being dishonest..they named their asking price..i accepted, paid it, and thats the end of it.

The seller is responsible for setting the price not the buyer. It took less than 10 seconds to get an idea what the watch is worth by doing a Google search.

Google search “Military Rolex submariner value”
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/l...jectID=5158185

[whiskyguy]

My opinion:

At dealer, garage sale, pawn shop, jewelry store, etc

Buy it and buy it quick. If they have presented it formally for sale it is their responsibility to have done their own research as to thevalue of an item.

If you approach someone and offer to do them a favor and buy that "ratty old Submariner" for 5% of its true value...

There is a place in hell just waiting for you.

Again just my 2cents!

Cheer

[HL65]

Integrity , character and honor are worth more than a short term gain on another man's back!

[valentine]

Originally Posted by whiskyguy

My opinion:

At dealer, garage sale, pawn shop, jewelry store, etc

Buy it and buy it quick. If they have presented it formally for sale it is their responsibility to have done their own research as to thevalue of an item.

If you approach someone and offer to do them a favor and buy that "ratty old Submariner" for 5% of its true value...

There is a place in hell just waiting for you.

Again just my 2cents!

Cheer

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! there IS a difference.

[Aeternitas]

Originally Posted by valentine

sorry...but I DISAGREE. it is the sellers responsibility to do the necessary research in order to decide on an appropriate selling price! and without an MSRP, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And "sort the men from boys??" come on, dude...If someone walks up to me with a milsub, and says "im looking to sell..i want 3 grand..." they get their 3 grand and I walk away....and make a nice profit. thats not being dishonest..they named their asking price..i accepted, paid it, and thats the end of it.

I agree. It takes less time to get a general idea of that watch value then it would to get a blue book value for a car. I am a big fan of thrift stores for this reason. I once got an overcoat that had a retail price of over $2500 for $10 simply because nobody bothered to look up the price or the brand.

[poppydog]

About 18 months - 2 years ago a guy walked into a jewelers in Scotland and asked them to modify his Rolex to fit a bracelet as it had fixed bars. His uncle had bought it several years ago for £100 (don't remember how/where) and given it to him. The shop assistant said he would do the work but pointed out what he was in possession of and how much it was worth and that the work would de-value it. He then put the owner in touch with a private collector who bought it for (I think) £45000.

I'd like to think I would do the same.

[robsteve]

I would tell them what it may be worth and then negotiate a price from there. If this person served in the military they deserve to get a fair value for it. In the past the military in most countries weren't that well paid and the value of this sub may make up for it.

Robert

[inspires]

I would definitely tell him, especially if he was the original owner. If he still thinks he only wants 3k for it then it's a different story.

I believe in karma and that everything eventually balances out in the end.

[kjb]

Originally Posted by valentine

sorry...but I DISAGREE. it is the sellers responsibility to do the necessary research in order to decide on an appropriate selling price! and without an MSRP, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And "sort the men from boys??" come on, dude...If someone walks up to me with a milsub, and says "im looking to sell..i want 3 grand..." they get their 3 grand and I walk away....and make a nice profit. thats not being dishonest..they named their asking price..i accepted, paid it, and thats the end of it.

I hear ya Justin but I didn't get the impression he was formally selling it so maybe I misunderstood . I got the impression the OP met some really old dude that had a Sub . Im thinking he must be really old since he is a Vet and has had this watch forever so it must be something he loves . If he is really wiling to sell it he must be hard up for cash and How COOL would it be to tell this old guy he has a watch he could sell for big bucks ! Just my thoughts..........

[chriseskew24]

I would tell them it's value if they where not some type of a brick and mortar store. Lets be honest most people wouln not think a watch to be worth that much or even know the diffrences in watches if they where not a WIS... They would just compare theres to a average run of the mill sub and make a price that way.

[whiskyguy]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan1965

Integrity , character and honor are worth more than a short term gain on another man's back!

If someone offers an item for sale in a business setting it is there responsibility to educate themselves. As a buyer it does not show a lack of honor or integrity to pay their asking price.

If an individual walks up and offers to sell you an item and asks yiu what it is worth you should treat them fairly. Explain the value and offer them a fair wholesale price.

Under no circumstance is it acceptable to approach someone and take advantage of their lack of knowledge.

Cheers

[Gonerafting]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan1965

Integrity , character and honor are worth more than a short term gain on another man's back!

Many folks are not that computer literate or even have one. Honesty is the best policy and I agree taking advantage of a Military Veteran is very slimy.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Gonerafting

Many folks are not that computer literate or even have one. Honesty is the best policy and I agree taking advantage of a Military Veteran is very slimy.

Exactly! Or of anyone else for that matter--Just put yourself in their shoes--You never need to think twice about doing the right thing-it is the only thing to do always!!

[mike]

Well,...If he were the original person the watch was issued to he's a hellva lot better man than I am.

Not only does he get from me the value of the watch, but my admiration and respect for walking the line on my behalf.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by mike

Well,...If he were the original person the watch was issued to he's a hellva lot better man than I am.

Not only does he get from me the value of the watch, but my admiration and respect for walking the line on my behalf.

[Green Arrow]

You tell the owner what he has. Forgetting that karma is a bitch, it would be good if the human race could remember that civility, compassion, and fair play is in short supply, and those of us lucky enough to afford ANY Rolex have been given the gift of opportunity to work for success. Money is less important at this level than moral character.

Morally bankrupt people are never "rich" no matter how much money they have. Hang with some of these guys for a while, as I have, and you will quickly catch on to how much better you will live and feel if you tell the owner what he has, and reach out to him as a human being instead of as a sucker for the next "deal".

If he still wants to sell it cheaply, that's different.

[Yazo]

Originally Posted by valentine

sorry...but I DISAGREE. it is the sellers responsibility to do the necessary research in order to decide on an appropriate selling price! and without an MSRP, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And "sort the men from boys??" come on, dude...If someone walks up to me with a milsub, and says "im looking to sell..i want 3 grand..." they get their 3 grand and I walk away....and make a nice profit. thats not being dishonest..they named their asking price..i accepted, paid it, and thats the end of it.

I've got to agree w/ Justin on this.

[Green Arrow]

Originally Posted by whiskyguy

If someone offers an item for sale in a business setting it is there responsibility to educate themselves. As a buyer it does not show a lack of honor or integrity to pay their asking price.

If an individual walks up and offers to sell you an item and asks yiu what it is worth you should treat them fairly. Explain the value and offer them a fair wholesale price.

Under no circumstance is it acceptable to approach someone and take advantage of their lack of knowledge.

Cheers

I would take it a step further. Being fair in business, while apparently a foreign concept these days, is part of being a fair person overall.

I've seen plenty of mistakes made in business settings over the years, and I've always pointed them out. It has worked out well for me. When times got tough for me, I was able to reach out to those same vendors and contractors, tell them that I needed a break this time, and every one of them helped.

Just because it is business doesn't mean that we aren't all in this together. Basic fairness over the quick dollar really is the best way to go in business as well as personal transactions.

Plus, forgetting money completely (I know that can only be said by people who have money, and if it were survival I'd sing a different tune PERHAPS), the person who always 'errs' on the side of fairness and civility, will likely live a happier, more fulfilled life. Perhaps with not as many toys (although I've certainly had my fair share), but with a much better "center".

[gone-rolex-mad]

This is a very interesting question. I have actually been in the same position. I offered to buy such a watch, it was pretty beat up and for those who did not know any better it was an old tatty rolex! I have to admit, I offered the guy a couple of grand, he actually seemed suprised that it was worth that much. He declined saying that the watch had sentimental value as it was originally issued to him and it had not been off his wrist since. I walked away thinking fair enough, the watch was with its rightful owner, although it was not looked after, and I didnt give it a second thought.
Some time later I bump into this gent. I ask how the watch was holding up, he tells me that he sold the watch to his local dealer, he had thought of my offer, and lost my contact number, he actually got less 500 for it!!!! I did not have the heart to tell him, especially as I only offered him two grand too.

This makes me think that if you don't get the watch, some other person will! And at a profit. So if he says no to your offer tell him that he should put the watch in auction.

Best of luck. Do what your heart tells you.

[RebreatherDiver]

classic Moral Hazard question:

what do I feel is legitimate and fair?
give the seller the money he has asked for the watch. Then they are happy and you are happy.

What would I do if it were me?
I would let him know that he has something special, and that if he wants to research the price more, I would be happy to wait for a more educated offer. Then let him decide if he wants the money or if he wants to research the watch. Who knows, he may want a quick sale, or may want to keep it at the end. Either way I would throw him a small bone, so he can make an educated decision.

Post transaction: if he chose to sell it for the original price: If I bought the watch for personal collection, I would not do anything. If I bought the watch for an investment to flip and make a profit, I would most likely take some of the profit and send the original seller a "thank you" letter with some green.

That is just me. I don't think there is anything "wrong" with non-disclosure on this issue, after all it is vintage and may seize up the day after purchase and you end up in it for a lot more. I would just personally choose the second option.

[ParisDakarBmw]

I would keep it simple. If that watch is worth $3k to them, and they are happy with the deal, so be it. If you aproach someone, and make them a silly offer, that's wrong. I think that once it's open for purchase, and the public has a fair chance, pick it up. Of course don't pay the man, and do a dance in front of him. Maybe give him $250 more and let that be the end of it. Do you think the people that purchase a Picaso at a yard sale, run up to the seller, and tell them it may be worth millions. No. Simply pay the person the asking price, and let it go.

You'd be a punk to ask him if he would take less!!!!!!!!

Just pay the open public price.....

[jets]

Originally Posted by valentine

sorry...but i disagree. It is the sellers responsibility to do the necessary research in order to decide on an appropriate selling price! And without an msrp, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And "sort the men from boys??" come on, dude...if someone walks up to me with a milsub, and says "im looking to sell..i want 3 grand..." they get their 3 grand and i walk away....and make a nice profit. Thats not being dishonest..they named their asking price..i accepted, paid it, and thats the end of it.

x10