ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

coreyvet · 16 January 2007, 06:57 AM

I own three Rolex watches. Stainless GMT I (1987 Hong Kong), stainless/gold submariner (2000 Bahamas) and gold Day-Date president (2006 USA). All were purchased from authorized dealers.

I would like to buy a stainless, white dial daytona but they only seem to be available via non authorized sources. I know the Rolex warranty is not valid from these sources but can the watch be fine otherwise?

I know I can have it checked at the Rolex service center but would it be confiscated if it is from a "questionable" ownership source. Do AD's sell their inventory to other watch sellers? I'm back to my original ? which is how do non AD's get their watches?????

OysterDavid · 16 January 2007, 07:18 AM

There is a thriving business in the selling of watches through what has been called the 'gray market', especially in the USA and UK and most likely Austrailia and New Zealand and Asia.

For what could be a variety of reasons, mostly financial, an Authorized Dealer decides to unload some inventory to a trusted third party reseller. These reasons could be cash flow needs, excess inventory, slow moving stock...whatever.

These third party sellers then go into the marketplace, trying to find buyers for these watches at a price higher than wholesale, but lower than retail.

I imagine Rolex is fully aware of this practice, but their only recourse would be first, to not honor a full warranty on such a watch if presented for service during the warranty period, and secondly, to 'punish' the seller, if 'caught' moving inventory in this manner.

I can't imagine any AD's trumpetting the fact they engage in gray market sales, and the number of Rolex watches returned for factory warranty service is very small, so the system just sort of absorbs watch sales of this manner.

Many of the Gray Market sellers say they and they alone warranty the product and not the manufacturer. So, a buyer would have to be fairly dense to assert they were duped if the watch were purchased from a known gray reseller. I suppose if the gray watch were then 'gifted' to another, and then the watch needed warranty service and it was presented to Rolex for repair, Rolex would just politely refuse to service under warranty.

I don't think you or anyone else purchasing new from the better known Gray sources would have to worry about the Rolex police coming to confiscate your watch. I also think that if the watch needed repair, and you wanted it done at an RSC, then you'd just present the watch as an out of warranty piece that needed repair and Rolex would do the work as if it were a regular watch in need of service.

As you scan postings here, you'll find members who wouldn't purchase a Rolex unless it were from an AD, those who'll go for price, playing an AD against a Gray source, and those who are perfectly happy purchasing pre-owned from a variety of sources including the famous auction site. I think my summary advice would be that oft used phrase...buy the seller and not the watch. If you're comfortable with the seller, whether an AD or some guy on the street with a bunch of watches hung from the inside of his jacket, then you'll be happy with the purchase.

Edensknight · 16 January 2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OysterDavid

There is a thriving business in the selling of watches through what has been called the 'gray market', especially in the USA and UK and most likely Austrailia and New Zealand and Asia.

For what could be a variety of reasons, mostly financial, an Authorized Dealer decides to unload some inventory to a trusted third party reseller. These reasons could be cash flow needs, excess inventory, slow moving stock...whatever.

These third party sellers then go into the marketplace, trying to find buyers for these watches at a price higher than wholesale, but lower than retail.

I imagine Rolex is fully aware of this practice, but their only recourse would be first, to not honor a full warranty on such a watch if presented for service during the warranty period, and secondly, to 'punish' the seller, if 'caught' moving inventory in this manner.

I can't imagine any AD's trumpetting the fact they engage in gray market sales, and the number of Rolex watches returned for factory warranty service is very small, so the system just sort of absorbs watch sales of this manner.

Many of the Gray Market sellers say they and they alone warranty the product and not the manufacturer. So, a buyer would have to be fairly dense to assert they were duped if the watch were purchased from a known gray reseller. I suppose if the gray watch were then 'gifted' to another, and then the watch needed warranty service and it was presented to Rolex for repair, Rolex would just politely refuse to service under warranty.

I don't think you or anyone else purchasing new from the better known Gray sources would have to worry about the Rolex police coming to confiscate your watch. I also think that if the watch needed repair, and you wanted it done at an RSC, then you'd just present the watch as an out of warranty piece that needed repair and Rolex would do the work as if it were a regular watch in need of service.

As you scan postings here, you'll find members who wouldn't purchase a Rolex unless it were from an AD, those who'll go for price, playing an AD against a Gray source, and those who are perfectly happy purchasing pre-owned from a variety of sources including the famous auction site. I think my summary advice would be that oft used phrase...buy the seller and not the watch. If you're comfortable with the seller, whether an AD or some guy on the street with a bunch of watches hung from the inside of his jacket, then you'll be happy with the purchase.

Well stated! Go to the head of the class!

coreyvet · 16 January 2007, 07:58 AM

Thanks very much for your response.

Your explanation all makes a lot of sense but I'm somewhat confused as to why AD's would sell out their SS, white dialed Daytona's? My AD says he can't get it and if he had one he has a list of buyers a mile long?

Why then do I see NIB Daytona's on Ebay?

tdr6874 · 16 January 2007, 08:05 AM

that maybe a hot model where you live...but in hong kong that might be a slow mover. i have seen alot of the gray market watches, ones that are for sale here in the states...they are mostly from south east asia/far east

amanda · 16 January 2007, 08:34 AM

The biggest discounting AD for Rolex in Melbourne had their Rolex ADship removed due to the sale of Grey Rolexs being sold in Melbourne. These Grey Rolexs were coming from HK I believe. The RSC in Melbourne took a very firm stance on this.. I know first hand because I was so confused about it I went and asked them. Rolex are very protective of how their watches are sold and for how much they are sold for! I was quoted a price on a GMT Master 2 that you'd not get anywhere in this country BNIB.. I decided to pass on it in the end, mainly because I couldnt quite get the funds together and went with a $1400 cheaper used watch.

I have since heard a rumour that RSC in Melb will not honour any warranty coming from this shop in Melbourne...

As oysterdavid says above - everyone is different and take different risks in how they wish to purchase. You either save lots of $ via Grey, buy used, or just pay full MSRP from an AD...

jac67 · 16 January 2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OysterDavid

These third party sellers then go into the marketplace, trying to find buyers for these watches at a price higher than wholesale, but lower than retail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreyvet

Thanks very much for your response.

Your explanation all makes a lot of sense but I'm somewhat confused as to why AD's would sell out their SS, white dialed Daytona's? My AD says he can't get it and if he had one he has a list of buyers a mile long?

Why then do I see NIB Daytona's on Ebay?

Simple: As OysterDavid said above, BUT with the SS Daytona the grey dealers find buyers at higher prices than RETAIL. Since these watches are in so high demand and the AD can't really charge more than retail, then off to the grey market. I suppose the AD and grey dealer split the profits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amanda

I have since heard a rumour that RSC in Melb will not honour any warranty coming from this shop in Melbourne...

If the watch was sold before the loss of their dealership, then Rolex must service these watches, mustn't they?

John.

coreyvet · 17 January 2007, 03:24 AM

Thanks for your replies. The explanation about how the AD makes more money on a Daytona model makes a lot of sense to me.

henry2703 · 18 January 2007, 11:05 AM

the business concept in asia, may be different from the rest of the world. due to the rareness of certain sports model, ADs are only allocated these piece, based on how many datejust they sold.

I heard from one of the more reputable AD, they would need to sell 200 pieces of datejust (of any model) just to get 1 SS sub date and 1 SS daytona.

Hence a lot of them sell their date just away, in order to hit the required target to get the sports models. This is also the reason why for certain sports model, there is no way you can aget anythign off the listed price. while for the rest, you hardly get more than 10%.

Yep! Rolex is also very fussy about pricing and stuff... I remember back in 2001, when i was with a particular bank, we were offering clients who invested USD 1 million into any mutual fund, a piece of TT dateJust free. It was so popular that we were snapping up all the pieces the AD has. The AD, in order to meet our demand, actually when to grey market and bought some pieces for us. That was a time, nobody could find any TT date just in singapore.

a month after, Rolex send the bank a letter of demand, demanding that we withdrawal the promotion. We arranged for a meeting with the Rolex people to have a chat.... they say that they basically think our promotion cheapens their brand. We will have to withdrawal it or face legal action.

We withdrew our rolex promotion and change it to omega. Omega welcomed us with open arms, and even threw in advertising fees for us.

See the difference?

ohlins · 18 January 2007, 11:17 AM

yeah that's true......AD here are not able to order specific models they wish........

they receive their inventory in lots.......consisting of mainly less popular models......e.g. cellini...tudor....date/datejust....OP.....and a few best sellers like subdate.....ss daytona.....lv...

my AD told me......periodically they export their slow moving inventory to grey dealers overseas......also in lots....:)

amanda · 18 January 2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jac67

If the watch was sold before the loss of their dealership, then Rolex must service these watches, mustn't they?John.

I asked that very Q of the RSC and didnt get a straight answer. If the paperwork is stamped from a reputable AD in HK and then onsold to the Melbourne store - the AD would have to honour that Warranty I'd have thought... UNLESS that first AD has had their dealership priority removed as well

confusing eh???

jac67 · 18 January 2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amanda

I asked that very Q of the RSC and didnt get a straight answer. If the paperwork is stamped from a reputable AD in HK and then onsold to the Melbourne store - the AD would have to honour that Warranty I'd have thought... UNLESS that first AD has had their dealership priority removed as well

confusing eh???

Hello Amanda

Your comments above sound fair, but your original post stated: "I have since heard a rumour that RSC in Melb will not honour any warranty coming from this shop in Melbourne..."

Does this mean that watches sold by them originally and before the loss of their dealership AND NOT the grey market ones, are also not to be serviced?

If so, then this is totally unfair for the buyer, and perhaps illegal.

John.

mikey · 19 January 2007, 01:54 AM

For years, I have always read about people on a waiting list for a Rolex Daytona. Just about all the ADs I have ever walked into had them in there glass display cases. Some new and preowned. True, the preowned spots have them. I guess some people are strictly AD only and do not want to travel to far from there buying habits. It is kinda hard to believe the Daytona in its popular dial combo is sold out.

16 January 2007, 06:57 AM	#1
coreyvet "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 3	How do non AD's get their watches? I own three Rolex watches. Stainless GMT I (1987 Hong Kong), stainless/gold submariner (2000 Bahamas) and gold Day-Date president (2006 USA). All were purchased from authorized dealers. I would like to buy a stainless, white dial daytona but they only seem to be available via non authorized sources. I know the Rolex warranty is not valid from these sources but can the watch be fine otherwise? I know I can have it checked at the Rolex service center but would it be confiscated if it is from a "questionable" ownership source. Do AD's sell their inventory to other watch sellers? I'm back to my original ? which is how do non AD's get their watches?????

16 January 2007, 07:18 AM	#2
OysterDavid Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: S F Bay Area Posts: 621	Gray Market sellers There is a thriving business in the selling of watches through what has been called the 'gray market', especially in the USA and UK and most likely Austrailia and New Zealand and Asia. For what could be a variety of reasons, mostly financial, an Authorized Dealer decides to unload some inventory to a trusted third party reseller. These reasons could be cash flow needs, excess inventory, slow moving stock...whatever. These third party sellers then go into the marketplace, trying to find buyers for these watches at a price higher than wholesale, but lower than retail. I imagine Rolex is fully aware of this practice, but their only recourse would be first, to not honor a full warranty on such a watch if presented for service during the warranty period, and secondly, to 'punish' the seller, if 'caught' moving inventory in this manner. I can't imagine any AD's trumpetting the fact they engage in gray market sales, and the number of Rolex watches returned for factory warranty service is very small, so the system just sort of absorbs watch sales of this manner. Many of the Gray Market sellers say they and they alone warranty the product and not the manufacturer. So, a buyer would have to be fairly dense to assert they were duped if the watch were purchased from a known gray reseller. I suppose if the gray watch were then 'gifted' to another, and then the watch needed warranty service and it was presented to Rolex for repair, Rolex would just politely refuse to service under warranty. I don't think you or anyone else purchasing new from the better known Gray sources would have to worry about the Rolex police coming to confiscate your watch. I also think that if the watch needed repair, and you wanted it done at an RSC, then you'd just present the watch as an out of warranty piece that needed repair and Rolex would do the work as if it were a regular watch in need of service. As you scan postings here, you'll find members who wouldn't purchase a Rolex unless it were from an AD, those who'll go for price, playing an AD against a Gray source, and those who are perfectly happy purchasing pre-owned from a variety of sources including the famous auction site. I think my summary advice would be that oft used phrase...buy the seller and not the watch. If you're comfortable with the seller, whether an AD or some guy on the street with a bunch of watches hung from the inside of his jacket, then you'll be happy with the purchase. Last edited by OysterDavid; 16 January 2007 at 07:29 AM.. Reason: stupid spelling mistake

16 January 2007, 07:58 AM	#4
coreyvet "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 3	Thanks for the response - one other ? Thanks very much for your response. Your explanation all makes a lot of sense but I'm somewhat confused as to why AD's would sell out their SS, white dialed Daytona's? My AD says he can't get it and if he had one he has a list of buyers a mile long? Why then do I see NIB Daytona's on Ebay?

17 January 2007, 03:24 AM	#8
coreyvet "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 3	Daytona explanation makes a lot of sense Thanks for your replies. The explanation about how the AD makes more money on a Daytona model makes a lot of sense to me.

18 January 2007, 11:05 AM	#9
henry2703 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: too far from HK Posts: 129	the business concept in asia, may be different from the rest of the world. due to the rareness of certain sports model, ADs are only allocated these piece, based on how many datejust they sold. I heard from one of the more reputable AD, they would need to sell 200 pieces of datejust (of any model) just to get 1 SS sub date and 1 SS daytona. Hence a lot of them sell their date just away, in order to hit the required target to get the sports models. This is also the reason why for certain sports model, there is no way you can aget anythign off the listed price. while for the rest, you hardly get more than 10%. Yep! Rolex is also very fussy about pricing and stuff... I remember back in 2001, when i was with a particular bank, we were offering clients who invested USD 1 million into any mutual fund, a piece of TT dateJust free. It was so popular that we were snapping up all the pieces the AD has. The AD, in order to meet our demand, actually when to grey market and bought some pieces for us. That was a time, nobody could find any TT date just in singapore. a month after, Rolex send the bank a letter of demand, demanding that we withdrawal the promotion. We arranged for a meeting with the Rolex people to have a chat.... they say that they basically think our promotion cheapens their brand. We will have to withdrawal it or face legal action. We withdrew our rolex promotion and change it to omega. Omega welcomed us with open arms, and even threw in advertising fees for us. See the difference? __________________ If your friend is using numerous strokes to get his ball out of the bunker, don't stand around him and count his strokes.... It's justifiable Homicide.

16 January 2007, 08:05 AM	#5
tdr6874 Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Houston Posts: 24	that maybe a hot model where you live...but in hong kong that might be a slow mover. i have seen alot of the gray market watches, ones that are for sale here in the states...they are mostly from south east asia/far east

16 January 2007, 08:34 AM	#6
amanda Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,380	The biggest discounting AD for Rolex in Melbourne had their Rolex ADship removed due to the sale of Grey Rolexs being sold in Melbourne. These Grey Rolexs were coming from HK I believe. The RSC in Melbourne took a very firm stance on this.. I know first hand because I was so confused about it I went and asked them. Rolex are very protective of how their watches are sold and for how much they are sold for! I was quoted a price on a GMT Master 2 that you'd not get anywhere in this country BNIB.. I decided to pass on it in the end, mainly because I couldnt quite get the funds together and went with a $1400 cheaper used watch. I have since heard a rumour that RSC in Melb will not honour any warranty coming from this shop in Melbourne... As oysterdavid says above - everyone is different and take different risks in how they wish to purchase. You either save lots of $ via Grey, buy used, or just pay full MSRP from an AD...

18 January 2007, 11:17 AM	#10
ohlins "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Singapore Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,213	yeah that's true......AD here are not able to order specific models they wish........ they receive their inventory in lots.......consisting of mainly less popular models......e.g. cellini...tudor....date/datejust....OP.....and a few best sellers like subdate.....ss daytona.....lv... my AD told me......periodically they export their slow moving inventory to grey dealers overseas......also in lots....:) __________________ the hype is true. a crown for every achievement. visit my audio and watch blog & how to use the rolex comfort link?

19 January 2007, 01:54 AM	#13
mikey "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA Watch: Oysterdate 6694 Posts: 2,713	For years, I have always read about people on a waiting list for a Rolex Daytona. Just about all the ADs I have ever walked into had them in there glass display cases. Some new and preowned. True, the preowned spots have them. I guess some people are strictly AD only and do not want to travel to far from there buying habits. It is kinda hard to believe the Daytona in its popular dial combo is sold out.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)