1937 Oyster Date

[322tcs]

Hello, Sometime back I inherited my Grandfathers 1937 Oyster. He received it in CBI while serving in the 14 AAF Flying Tigers. It is in pristine condition and still has the original leather band. The original seal is still partially intact. Could anyone give me a ball park estimate to it's worth?

[HL65]

It is worth whatver value you place on inheriting your Grandfather's watch--something I am sure you will treasure for life. That is something one can not place a monetary value on.

[adam78]

Detailed photos would be most helpful.

However, in general, giving a value to really old watches is sometimes a tricky business, Condition is crucial. And then, there might be only a very few collectors who would be interested in such a specimen, unlike the ubiquitous collectors of 5513 or 1680 Submariners.

And, by the way, you mistyped when you wrote "Date" in the heading, no? The Oysterdate didn't appear until 1952.

[322tcs]

Yes, thank you, I inadvertently mis-titled the thread...it is a 1937 Oyster Perpetual.

[adam78]

Ah, an early bubbleback! Would love to see the pics....

If the dial is original, it might be worth a bit.

[Chris B]

What wonderful recollections of your Grandfather you must have when you look at the watch, ...its priceless.

I must be getting old cos I love to hear things like this these days,

I'm sure you'll treasure it forever

[322tcs]

I have been trying to upload a couple of photos...
it is all original and the honey-comb dial is superb! trying again to load the photos.....

[mickyvee]

WOW! Looks brand new! Very nice indeed. You are very lucky to have such a watch. Enjoy.

[322tcs]

ok...got a couple of photos...lol. It is truly a treasure, Grandpa received it as a gift from Generalissimo Chiang Kai-Shek along with a letter of accommodation for his service to the people of china and the Chinese Order of Cloud and Banner, 6th class medal, third class being the highest ever awarded to an American and that was Gen. Clair Chanult!
Thank-you for your feedback all!

[Quattro Libre]

Beautiful watch. Wear it proudly and don't worry about what it's "worth".

[adam78]

Very nice. I think it's a "big bubbleback". By the way, it's actually from the early-to-mid '50s. The SNs started over again in mid-53. Have a look at the dating chart here: http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/numbers.html

And the "Rolex" of the top part of the strap should be facing towards the back of the watch; you have it on backwards. No biggie.

Congrats on a very nice heirloom watch.

[gtb5]

Love the Rolex inscription on the strap.

[322tcs]

@Adam, thanks for the info. Grandad received it in 1944 so it has to be circa 44 or earlier. I had dated it as a 1939 but was told it to be a 37'. Now according to the SN list, it would appear to be a 1939 with SN 82701.
12 o'clock position is marked Brevet 6564. I also have the original Rolex box, velvet green interior and foe green alligator exterior accompanied with the official "Oyster swimpruf" tag...lol

[322tcs]

So I see this sight says it is circa 1937...
http://www.bgrayjewelers.com/rolex_information.htm
I do see written on the back of the foil "Oyster Swimpruf" tag is the SN, Model, Steel/Gold, 25 jewels and this number that is probably the movement: 5G4834
I guess the only way to date it for sure is to visit the local Rolex Service Center...lol.

[adam78]

I have a little experience with vintage Rolex. Trust me, it's from the '50s. The SN issue has been well-discussed among collectors.

This one (SN 123XXX) is from the '30s:

[Justjosh]

Adam, look at the serial number he posted, then yours again. His is 1 digit shorter.

[adam78]

Originally Posted by Justjosh

Adam, look at the serial number he posted, then yours again. His is 1 digit shorter.

You guys are killing me.

Like I said, Rolex started back to zero in mid-1953, as it didn't yet have the capability to mark case backs with SNs over 1,000,000. So of course there would be some in the tens of thousands.

Here are excepts from the chart I referenced (sorry, looks like I was in error about my bubbleback above; it's from about 1941):

40920 .............................1937
43739 .............................1938
71224 .............................1939
99775 .............................1940
106047 ...........................1941
143509 ...........................1942

955466 ......................IV 1953
964789 ......................IV 1953
973697 ......................IV 1953
973930 ......................III 1953
116578 ......................IV 1953
132562 .......................III 1953
139400 .........................I 1956
139477 .........................I 1956

So his most likely dates from the 4th quarter of 1953.

I'm trying to be helpful, but I feel like I've been hitting my head against the wall in this thread. I promise to leave it now.

[Justjosh]

I was unaware of this fact, and after reading your link it makes a bit more sense.

What doesn't make sense however, is how watches purchased or gifted during WWII would end up dating to 1953...

[adam78]

Okay, one more reply...

It is entirely possible (and probable, in this case) that it was then given as a gift after the fact for earlier services. This was not uncommon.

The watch in question is stylistically from the early-mid '50s. This could be easily confirmed by examination of the inner case back, which in that era had the production date stamped; also by the '50s the SN and case reference numbers were engraved between the lugs (at 6:00 and 12:00, respectively). The case reference, in particular, can be a clue to the era of production, as these were period-specific for the most part. So I will leave it to the owner to do this detective work. He would likely have to take it to a watchmaker to remove the case back.

[322tcs]

Sorry guys, it is documented that he received the award in 1944 while still in China, also have official photos of the event with him and generalissimo CKC . My father still recalls the the dispatch from grandpa and seeing the items when grandpa returned home in early 1945. The local newspaper also ran an article of the award in 1944.

I must be missing something regarding the SN list.....It would still appear to me that it falls between 1939 and 40'

[CaveDiver]

That watch is incredible. Very nice. I guess he never wore it.

[322tcs]

I truly appreciate all this input...it makes it more intriguing for sure. I will get ahold of our Rolex Service Center in San Francisco today to have the watch serviced and dated.
Many thanks!

[ROGERB]

That is one great looking watch!! Is it possible that there is some confusion as to which war it is from?? I say this because that watch is definitely from the early 50's... 1951 would be my guess which would correspond the the Korean War ( 1950-53). Is it possible he served in both? A model 6564 just does not show up until the 50's...
At the end of the day be proud you have it to remember him by:)
R

[Casey VP-26]

322tcs: On your first photo, it looks like the strap at 12 o:clock is being worn bottom side up. Interesting.

[adam78]

Please have a watchmaker open the case back, and you will see that the production date is in the '50s (would be marked something like: IV 55). Sometimes there are slight discrepancies between the case back production date and case SN, as these were batched, and often there is a year or two difference between the charts and the production date stamp. The cal. 1030 was produced from 1955-57 or so.

Can you let us see this letter which you have mentioned?

This is a beautiful watch in any case, and a wonderful heirloom.

[josh6262]

This is a case for CSI Geneva!

[322tcs]

Sure, it may take me a day or so to retrieve the box from the attic. His service was from 1942-1945, all within the China, Burma, India theater with the 10th and 14th AAF Flying Tigers (not the AVG)...all well documented, I have all his service records and complete decorated uniform. The reason for his decorations is that he constructed a radio beacon (accredited with first ever radar) from radio sets and positioned them behind enemy lines to direct our aircraft to their targets. Our troops were using bonfires for positioning but the Japanese were smart, they too began lighting bonfires to confuse our planes so Grandad, being the electrical genius he was, constructed these beacons there in the field and helped to place them while with the 322TCS.

[322tcs]

OK ..great news. Just got off the phone with RSC in San Francisco, I described the watch in detail, Joe said the model and SN is to be located between the lugs just as they are for an Oyster Perpetual, 6564, built from 1936 on......when I gave him the SN, with delight he emphasized that it is in fact a 1930's piece which makes perfect sense! He now wants to see it in person to verify it is in fact, in the condition I described...lol

[adam78]

Please do not hesitate to post a follow-up after he actually sees the watch and removes the case back.

Rolex did not engrave the case ref. number and SN between the lugs until about 1948. Ref. 6564 was not produced until the 1950s. Service techs are not always the most knowledgeable folks when it comes to the minutiae of vintage Rolex, as you are about to discover.

[imono]

Just go to any nice jewelery store where they sell watches. Usually there is a watch maker in the back. He can easily open the back case in a minute. Doubt they will charge for a service like that.
Then just hand screw it back gently and take it home and take pictures of the case back and movement.
This is getting interesting.