Wishing to join the dark side.

[ArcticMoose]

A few months ago looking for a mid-size YM at a dealer in Sydney I happened to comment that the Panerais in the window looked good, but that they were far too large for me to wear without feeling like a clown.

The dealer insisted I try one on and came back with a trayfull.

The tobacco sandwich dial instantly caught my eye. I tried it on, and it looked absolutely perfect in the mirror. I asked how much (not knowing anything at all about the brand) and was told $30k.

Great.

I tried on a few of the others in the $8k range, but they didn't do anything for me.

I concluded that if I had that type of money (which I didn't) I would prefer to spend it on a WG Sub or a JLC Master Calendar and have enough change for a Pepsi and and a birthyear 5513. I hadn't bothered to check what model it was, and couldn't really remember how it looked. None of the Panerais I've seen since interested me. I decided it must have been mood-related that particular day and promptly forgot about it

Or so I thought, until I saw the photos in Moscos ad for a Monopulsante GMT PAM 311 and it all came back to me, that is the one I tried on. It would be the perfect watch if it also had a date.

So, that particular offer is still out of range budget-wise even if it is much better than the $30k of my first contact. However, there are a few used ones within reach locally, which at the moment happens to be northern Europe.

I haven't been 100% convinced of the sources though, so basically, I want to know how to detect a fake. Are there fully functional fake P.2004 movements available? I.e. can you be reasonably sure of purchasing an authentic watch if the chrono, fly-back, power reserve indicator, actual power reserve, GMT hand and second hand zero during setting function as expected?

Also, I haven't been able to find any videos of the 311, 317 or 275 in action. Has anyone else had better luck?

[Speed]

Buy from an AD, Panerai Boutique or Greg/Mosco or Oscar/BodyBump and you won't have to worry about fakes.

Lots of details to fake...I could be wrong, but I don't think there are a ton of fakes on the more elaborate PAMs.

[ArcticMoose]

Originally Posted by Speed

Buy from an AD, Panerai Boutique or Greg/Mosco or Oscar/BodyBump and you won't have to worry about fakes.

Yeah, that's my preferred option, although AD prices are out of the question. However, if I can save $3000+ buying from a less well-know source, I really do need to consider it.

Originally Posted by Speed

Lots of details to fake...I could be wrong, but I don't think there are a ton of fakes on the more elaborate PAMs.

It looks like some of the fake dealers are having their web domains seized, a few of the search results I got looking for information led to sites such as:
http://servingnotice.com/oft/

It probably won't stop until all countries are onboard, but hopefully it will slow them down a bit.

I just realized I can get the case and dial I want in a much cheaper PAM 118. Now I am confused, i really had my heart set on a 311, besides looking forward to finally owning a chrono, I would really miss my current daily beater Explorer II's GMT hand.

[snog]

my advice would be to try and wait and get the watch you want,might take a while longer but it will be worth it.

[applebook]

From what I've gathered, the simplest ways to detect fakes, even from just medium-resolution pictures --

- crown guards are never correct; the lever on fakes are either too close to the case or too far out; the lever "point" is almost always too large compared to the real thing, and the crown is normally too big or too small.
- Swan's neck regulator is usually faked if it exists at all.
- "Officine Panerai" printing on the movement is too large and bold because the bad blue paint on fakes bleed. Of course, upon close examination in real life, through a loupe, you'd be able to see bad finishing and metal shavings on the movement.
- dial fonts are incorrect.
- on cheaper fakes, the hour and the minute hands pin wheel tend to be too short.
- engraving of the fish symbol on the back is usually very BADLY done.

[B. Doggy]

Come on over!

[TopNotchChach]

either I'll purchase from one of the members SPEED wrote or I'll go to my friends AD.

Just saw a pepsi gmt, debating on which to get first!

[marcinthemiddle]

Join us....

[ArcticMoose]

Originally Posted by applebook

From what I've gathered, the simplest ways to detect fakes, even from just medium-resolution pictures

Thanks!

Have you ever seen a fully functional fake Panerai with multiple complications?

I'm thinking I should spend the extra money for the 311, but it still bugs me that it doesn't have a date.

[Swiss Collector]

There are lots of great pre-owned deals out there just make sure the seller you find comes with lots of referrals, make sure the piece is complete with all Papers/Box/Card etc... Some may even have the original receipt? Finally if you are still worried escrow the piece and have it sent to an authorized dealer to be checked out then you are good to go!

Oh ya and welcome to the dark side!

[ArcticMoose]

Originally Posted by Swiss Collector

Oh ya and welcome to the dark side!

Thanks! My transition is now complete.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=2511663