GMT or Sub?

[Terrence]

Hi there!

I'm very keen to get my first Rolex but the problem is i can't seem to decide which to get. I neither dive or fly so the functions do not really matter to me. it'll be good if i can get some advice. Thanks!

cheers!

[viper]

Get the one that looks & feels best when you try it on!!!!!!!

[mike]

Originally Posted by viper

Get the one that looks & feels best when you try it on!!!!!!!

[JJ Irani]

Welcome to TRF, Terrence. Try them both and one of them will definitely smile back at you!!

Good luck - JJ

[watchnut]

Before you rule out everything but the "tool watches" try a Datejust. SS or TT with the new Jubilee bracelet. You can pick from beau coup dials, markers, etc and you'll be amazed at the comfort. Just as rugged with the same movement!

[Flyjet601]

Go to an AD and try on a bunch of them and see which one smiles back at you. Thats will be the one.
Ihave gone down with a certain model in mind, tried on some other ones and changed my mind because seeing them in person is completely different.

Enjoy the hunt.

[Alcan]

Hi Terrence, welcome aboard!

Follow Viper's advice. Try them both on, you'll know which one you want.

[Oyster Lover]

Originally Posted by Terrence

Hi there!

I'm very keen to get my first Rolex but the problem is i can't seem to decide which to get. I neither dive or fly so the functions do not really matter to me. it'll be good if i can get some advice. Thanks!

cheers!

Why not get both? That's what I aim on doing...

[mike]

Originally Posted by Oyster Lover

Why not get both? That's what I aim on doing...

Humm.....Good idea!

[idoitsavant]

Yep.. Try the non Sports versions too.
I bought a GMT and kind of regretted cos I felt the weight is pretty substantial on my pussy wrists. I have been wearing a 36mm around for the past week and the feeling is so much better.

[Lol-x]

Welcome Terrence, you've got some good advice. So after you go and try some on in a shop, you might have some more questions, or if you get the urge, you might find yourself buying the one you like there and then.
I'm sure everyone will be interested to hear how you go

[KJacques]

If you'll just keep perusing this board and see all the beautiful pictures of watches posted, you'll notice which ones that you keep going back to see. The problem is that if you're like me, you'll start lusting for a lot of watches that you never would have thought of considering.

[^fai^]

I got both the Sub and GMT and I neither dive or fly, pool swimming - YES

In my opinion, if you want something rugged and heavy, you should go for Sub. If you want something light, confort and fit to your wrist then you will not go wrong with GMT. Especially if you are looking for a rolex for daily wear. Both of them has their own personality.

Enjoy your rolex hunting

[morgman]

I had the GMT for a while, it was nice. I found the dial a bit too busy after a while with both the cyclops and 3rd hand. I also like the triplock crown better than the smaller crown, both functionally and visually. Very comfortable watch though, and no longer being made, although there are a ton out there. Also, the way you can fast forward/rewind the hour hand is really cool.

The sub is the standard. You rarely see non-date subs though if you can live without the date.

[Terrence]

Thanks for all the advice.

I still have not tried on the watches as they have gone out of stock in my AD.

Was thinking of getting the GMT because i will be getting a 15% discount as compared to the sub which i can get 6% at most. However now i have changed my mind again because my brother has convinced me to get a sub and that it will never go wrong because of its popularity and resale value, not that i'll ever sell it though.

Until i try them on i'm going to have a hard time deciding. Just have to be patient and wait for another 2 weeks.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Terrence

Thanks for all the advice.

I still have not tried on the watches as they have gone out of stock in my AD.

Was thinking of getting the GMT because i will be getting a 15% discount as compared to the sub which i can get 6% at most. However now i have changed my mind again because my brother has convinced me to get a sub and that it will never go wrong because of its popularity and resale value, not that i'll ever sell it though.

Until i try them on i'm going to have a hard time deciding. Just have to be patient and wait for another 2 weeks.

Even before I read this I was going to say GMT. For three reasons. I like it more. Its being discontinued (good one to have.) and because the Sub is everyman's Rolex. Be different.

That and 15% off. No brainer. Get the GMT.

Which dial were you thinking about?

[Taurus75]

Originally Posted by Terrence

Thanks for all the advice.

I still have not tried on the watches as they have gone out of stock in my AD.

Was thinking of getting the GMT because i will be getting a 15% discount as compared to the sub which i can get 6% at most. However now i have changed my mind again because my brother has convinced me to get a sub and that it will never go wrong because of its popularity and resale value, not that i'll ever sell it though.

Until i try them on i'm going to have a hard time deciding. Just have to be patient and wait for another 2 weeks.

At 15% off , the discontinued GMT II 16710 is a good buy especially if you can get the 1 with all black bezel. Cosmetically, it is almost similar to the SS Sub but with the added avantage of changing the bezel inserts when it is due for servicing. While the SS Sub is no doubt a beauty, it is far too common IMO. The SS Sub was orginally my first choice but I chose the SD instead because it is slightly less common and I wasn't bothered by its weight & lack of cyclops. Whatever your choice, you will not go wrong with either. Juz my 2 cents.

[Gaijin]

Hahahaha. I think I just opened a can of worms. Next debate...Which color bezel is best! Hahahaha.

I'll start. I love the Black and the Red/Black. Hate the Pepsi.

Next!?

[sheldonsmith]

I am in the midst of updating my web page comparing the GMTII and Submariner.

Attached is the (draft) text of the page... I am going to post (link in my sig file below) probably this week with pictures.

Here's a preview.

-Sheldon

-----------------------------------

With the Anniversary editions of the GMTII slowly being released, there has been much discussion on the older, now “classic” GMTII that is still widely available. My GMT II D serial I have had since March 2006 after owning a DateJust, NoDate Submariner, and Turn-O-Graph. I obtained the Submariner (Z series) after trading my SeaDweller because it was too heavy. The Submariner and the GMT are two similar watches using the same case, crystal, chapter ring, but each of them wear differently because of a few distinguishing factors that I describe below.

In the mid 1950, the original GMT and the original Submariner were more similar than different, but each of these watches went on their own evolutionary track. The GMT, introduced in 1954, was an outgrowth of the Rolex Thunderbird introduced in at Basal in 1954. The Rolex Thunderbird was a DateJust with a rotating bezel made for the Air Force’s Thunderbird acrobatics team. From the Thunderbird, evolved the GMT II with the third hour-hand for pilots to use when crossing time zones. The evolution of the GMT II is well told by James Dowling at http://www.ukwatches.com/Notes/rfgmt.htm

The Submariner was first shown in 1953 and was released to the public at Basal in 1954 as model number 6204. The first Submariner had no date mechanism, the bezel was bi-directional, not unidirectional as it is now, and the hour hand lacked the Mercedes symbol that is now expected on Rolex sport watches. The depth limit was 600 feet and the watch case had no crown guards.

The early 1950’s were the watershed years for Rolex sport watches. During this time, Everest was being conquered, transcontinental flight were available to the masses, and underwater diving records were broken. In 1954, Rolex unveiled three breeds of sport watches. The Submariner for underwater exploration, the Explorer for conquering mountains, and the Turn-o-Graph for jet-setting businessmen. Later, the Turn-o-Graph would be revised into the GMT Master, then revised in 1990 as the GMTII with the addition of a quickset date and independently moving hour hand to monitor three time zones.

[From The Watch Quote and James Dowling’s “The Best of Rolex: An Unauthorized History and his notes posted here. ]

Both the Submariner and the GMT II share the same hands, case, and crystal. The primary difference between the watches, other than the obvious differences in the bezel insert, and the 24 hour hand on the GMT, are the clasp, the caseback, bezel, crown, and the half-link/full link.



Crystal Height
In reviewing my Rolex parts book (a copy of the original purchased off EBay), both the GMT and Submariner share the same crystal. Even though the crystals are the same, the crystal on the Submariner rides just slightly higher than the crystal on the GMT. I try to capture the difference in the photo on the right.

The Rolex parts book does not shed any light on the crystal height difference; all the parts appear to be the same. It is possible that the bezel ring rides higher on the GMT because it requires more play to rotate bi-directional rather than un-directional on the Submariner.


Date View
With the crystal appearing a little higher, when comparing the two watches side by side, the date view appears a little bigger on the submariner. If the crystal is in fact riding higher, the date would also appear slightly bigger.


Bezel
The ring on the two watches are subtly different. The bezel on the GMT rotates bi-directionally, whereas the Submariner only rotates counter-clockwise. Although the insert appears to be interchangeable, the bezel is slightly thicker on the Submariner giving it a slightly more robust appearance. The picture on the right shows my extra Red-Blue GMT Bezel insert sitting on top of the Submariner bezel ring.

When looking at both watches side-by-side, the slight difference in the bezel thickness, combined with the subtle difference in how the number views in the date window give the GMT a slightly wider, shallower look. The Sub, by (subtle) comparison, appears like the face is deeper in the case and the dial insert as being slightly smaller/narrower. In actuality, the bezel insert is the same dimensions as the GMT, but the smaller look is given by the slightly thicker bezel ring.


Case Back and Height
The caseback on Submariner the is thicker than on the GMT. The GMT caseback is reminiscent of the DateJust and has a very similar profile. The extra thickness on the Submariner caseback is one of the crucial differences, aside from the crown, that allows for a 1000M depth rating. The caseback on the Submariner does not give at all.

The next time you are at an AD, examine the GMT II. Put both your thumbs on the caseback and try to flex it. At first, you will not notice any flex, but after repeating the same test on the Sub, one will notice a difference.

The added thickness of the caseback makes the Submariner ride a little higher and with a little more watch-flop. The GMT fits closer to the wrist.


Bracelet and Clasp
The bracelet on both watches are the same with two noticeable differences. The links on the Submariner are brushed on the sides whereas they are polished on the GMT. The other distinguishing difference are the 4 ½ links on the Submariner’s 6:00 O’clock side versus 5 full links on the GMT.

For smaller wristed wearers, the ½ link helps bring the clasp to the center of the wrist. I believe that if the SD had 4 ½ links rather than 5 full links, like the GMT, I would have kept the SD. For small wristed folks (eg. 6 ½” diameter), the clasp hinge does not fully center on the underside of the wrist; part of the hinge hangs over the side.

For desktop divers and aviators, the increased clasp thickness is noticeable when doing desk work (keyboard, writing). The GMT clasp, being closer to the DateJust by which the GMT originated, excels in desktop duties.

The clasp hinge is the same on both watches, but the clasp cover is longer on the Submariner to accommodate for the divers extension. The dives extension expands very similarly as the SD. Some people have written that the clasp is longer on the Submariner. In actuality, its only the cover that is longer as the hinge is the same length.


Weight/Height
GMT: 127 g / 12.45mm
Sub: 135g / 13.00mm


How they wear
Even though the watch cases are the same, the watches wear different because of the increased height and weight of the Submariner caseback. The Submariner feels heavier and a little more substantial than the GMT. The increased weight give it a feeling of presence on the wrist. The increase height also increases its visibility to others as well as to the wearer.

Perhaps the biggest difference in how the watches wear for small wristed folks is the ½ link on the 6:00 side of the Submariner. For small wristed wearers, the half-link on the 6:00 o’clock side brings the clasp hinge closer to the center of the wrist. The ½ link combined with the increased height of the caseback make for a perfect fit for a 6.5” wrist. The GMT always sits on the outside of the wrist because all the links are removed on the 6:00 o’clock side and the outside band links somewhat cantilever off the clasp hinge thereby pulling the watch head to the outside of the wrist. This is not a major point, but noticeable when switching between a Sub and a GMT. For 6.5” wearers, the difference the ½ link might make the difference for prospective wearers deciding between a GMT and a Sub.

In all, I like both watches. I prefer how the Sub wears, but I appreciate the lower height of the GMT and the 24 hour hand for monitoring bicycle race start time in Europe. My daily wearer is the GMT, but I switch to the Submariner on weekends and I attempt to keep this one clean.

[Incurable]

Great read, small correction... aerobatics not acrobatics

[sheldonsmith]

I found the typo (as well as a few others). Thanks.

I should have this posted with pictures sometime this week.

-Sheldon