Vintage Submariner help please

[davemcdus]

Hi All,
I'm new here, having read a lot of helpful posts over the last couple of weeks as a visitor. I'm in the process of trying to buy a model 5513 no date Submariner from the 70's -80's. Most of the watches I'm looking at are one eBay. There are several available, all from sellers with good ratings who have guaranteed a refund if Rolex here in NYC won't authenticate it, but I've noticed some small details and differences between the watches that I'm unsure about so I wanted to ask a neutral source.

Anyway, here's my list of questions for you experts out there. Your help would be very appreciated...

1. Do all Rolex Submariners have the Triplock markings (ie-crown with 3 dots below) on the crown? I have located one watch (ca. 1975) that seems right in every respect except that it does not have the 3 dots below the crown.

2. Is it considered acceptable ( in a collectable sense) for there to be cracking in the tritium of the hour markers, or discoloration(grey spots) or water spots on the dial? Most of the watches I've found have some level of this.

3. Do hands and hour markers patina at the same rate? Lots of these watches appear to have newer looking hands or newer looking hour markers. Can this happen naturally or does it mean hands have been replaced or dials have been refinished?

4. Lastly, has anyone ever dealt with Pacific Bay Watches in Newport Beach, or eBay seller firstjewelrysource (or Edmar Fine Jewelry) based in Scottsdale Arizona?

I have included pics below for reference-
Pic 1 - genuine crown?
Pic 2- scratching on hour markers
Pic 3- Different hands?
Pic 4- Grey marks on dial (at 8 o'clock and left of crown)

Thanks in advance for your help.
Sincerely,
Dave

[dysondiver]

personally , id buy from a seller on the forum, if you pay slightly more consider it an investment in the knowledge that the seller has spent years developing.
i bought of a seller on trf , first class.
e bay , ask yourself why its there .
even if e bay was close , and you could inspect the watch before you pay , could you honnestly tell some of the first class fakes about these days.
deal here would be my thoughts.

[davemcdus]

Yes, after looking around on eBay for a bit I'm more nervous than when I started. I'm new here and quite honestly can't even find people selling on this forums. Where do I look?
I would still be curious to hear answers to my questions though, especially as it relates to wear and tear on the dials.

[mcjp6]

Hi Dave and welcome to TRF......

Good luck with your quest for a 5513, so much variety, my favorite reference....

With vintage watches, yes the tritium can crack, yes the dial can have spots and yes the hands can age or exhibit patina quicker (or slower) than the dial plots.

The thing with vintage, and is always dictated by price, is the condition of the case, and especially the dial (pls read this thread http://50.30.33.71/~trfcom/showthread.php?t=117073)

I am afraid I have no knowledge of irstjewelrysource.

Good luck with your search.....the hunt is sometimes the best part.

[clay1680]

Welcome Dave,

I'm fairly new myself, but regarding your question #1 I believe the triple dot was introduced to subs in the early 70's so one would expect a '75 to have the triple dot crown. However, as with many Rolex elements (e.g. bands), there was usually an overlap period where they were using older stock on new watches, so it's quite possible that the crown is an original.

As for the patina questions mjcp6 is right, there are many variations, but in my experience collectors like to see matching patina on the dial and hands; how dark/worn they look is purely subjective. Here's a good post on vintage 1680 reds that has some decent info on dial/hands patina http://rolex.watchprosite.com/show-f...ti-649211/s-0/

I would purchase a watch (here or on eBay) only if you're 100% comfortable with the transaction. If it's via eBay make sure to talk to the seller, check feedback, ask for additional pics, etc. If anything seems off or too good to be true it probably is, be patient and one will come your way...

Also, I think you may have some better luck with answers if this was posted in the Vintage Rolex Discussion section...

Good luck!

[Dan2000]

Hello Dave, if you want to find sellers, look at the For Sale section and the Who's who section for trusted sellers/dealer.

Good luck

[davemcdus]

Thanks everyone. I ended up getting a 5513 yesterday through a seller found here on one of the trusted sellers lists in the who's who section.