Need Help Identifying and dating this Submariner

[sub1427]

Okay, So I got this watch from a friend, I was told it was from the early 1990's... the serial number is 44XXXXX making the case from 1974... See the attached pictures for the face because that does not match up with a circa 1974 rolex... the hour markers have that silver outline unlike the plain marks like from pictures of 74... I'm confused and hoping someone here can help me out

Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

[rocco1109]

4,4xx,xxx serials are reserved for replacement cases. At some point in that watch's life Rolex replaced the entire watch case. This is relatively rare. Something must have been seriously wrong with the original case for them to replace it entirely. The movement could be original.

Also when the case was replaced, the dial and hands were also replaced.

[sub1427]

yeah, according to my friend he said the case was 74 but when he took it in for service they said the movement was from the 90's... interesting... i wonder how that hurts the value of the watch...

[rocco1109]

Originally Posted by sub1427

yeah, according to my friend he said the case was 74 but when he took it in for service they said the movement was from the 90's... interesting... i wonder how that hurts the value of the watch...

Did you purchase it?

Does your friend have any of the documentation from the service?

[sub1427]

He bought it from an estate sale when his neighbor passed... I can ask him if he has the paper work from the service.. I guess it would be good to have... and to make sure that mofo actually had it serviced and isnt just jerking me around...;)

[rocco1109]

Originally Posted by sub1427

He bought it from an estate sale when his neighbor passed... I can ask him if he has the paper work from the service.. I guess it would be good to have... and to make sure that mofo actually had it serviced and isnt just jerking me around...;)

It sounds like the case was already replaced when your friend took it in for service since he also thought the watch was from the 1970s.

The model # is engraved on the case between the 12 o'clock lugs. It most likely will say 16610. Check that (you'll have to remove the bracelet)

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by sub1427

He bought it from an estate sale when his neighbor passed... I can ask him if he has the paper work from the service.. I guess it would be good to have... and to make sure that mofo actually had it serviced and isnt just jerking me around...;)

You did say he was a friend of yours ....... right?

[ExpII]

I was under the impression the WG surrounds indicated a 90s or so watch.

[rocco1109]

Originally Posted by ExpII

I was under the impression the WG surrounds indicated a 90s or so watch.

That is correct.

But if you look at any of the existing serial # charts you'd think that a 4,4xx,xx serial is from the 1970s. This is not the case. 4,4xx,xxx is reserved for replacement cases.

Hence the OPs confusion.

[Melanotaenia]

You can pop the back and see what is engraved on the back plate, as many times serials are engraved there if a case is replaced by Rolex

[sub1427]

i dont have the tool to open the back... otherwise i would contemplate it... any other suggestions

[ecsub44]

Well, the dial isn't from the 70's or 90's (at least not before ~1998).

Interesting...I'm wondering how this one will play out and what the verdict will be.

[Jason71]

I'm confused. Is it YOUR watch, or your friend's watch

[sub1427]

Its my watch now... he got it from a relative that passed away... it is currently on my wrist as we speak

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by sub1427

Its my watch now... he got it from a relative that passed away... it is currently on my wrist as we speak

Gotcha

It SEEMS as if it had a dial/hands/case replacement at service. It would have been a VERY EXPENSIVE service. Ask your friend how much the service cost. It might be a decent idea to see if your friend has the service papers, and if he doesn't.............take the watch to someone to have them look inside the caseback and verify the movement.

BTW, how good is this "friend"?? This model 16880 has me worried.........Are you sure those are the numbers (maybe it is 16800 or 168000), and where are they engraved??

[sub1427]

I made a mistake... a mis-cue with my fingers... the model stamped on the case is 16800... it is stamped behind the 12 o'clock band...


? This model 16880 has me worried.........Are you sure those are the numbers (maybe it is 16800 or 168000), and where are they engraved??[/QUOTE]

[Speed]

Umm earlier in the thread you said Yor friend got it from a neighbor who passed...later you say relative???

[Tools]

I really don't see anything wrong with the watch..

It is likely a 16800 that had a damaged case replaced at some point in it's life. If it is a sapphire crystal, then that would bolster the argument since that was the watch that introduced sapphire, clicking bezel, and the quick-set date movement 3035 to the Sub Date in ~1980. So, the date range would likely be between ~1980 and ~1987.

Since it has a Luminova service dial and hands, all of this took place after 1998..

(of course, more information could change this opinion)

A new case would not affect the value except to Internet forum browsers who believe that all Rolexes need to be absolutely original with this caveat; if the watch was originally a very early matte dial version it has lost some value ..