Top 10 Advances in Wristwatch Technology

[1675-David]

Tissot launching the Rock watch in 1986 can't be considered the most ground breaking advance in wristwatch technology, but since the appearence of the wristwatch around 1868, accredited to Patek Phillipe, several breakthroughs have been achieved. Which have been the most important?

[james89]

Abraham-Louis Perrelet invented the self-winding mechanism for pocket watch in 1770, and it worked on the same principle as the modern wristwatch (from wikipedia)

Does that count?

[mitchy]

how about Rolex first waterproof watch?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by james89

Abraham-Louis Perrelet invented the self-winding mechanism for pocket watch in 1770, and it worked on the same principle as the modern wristwatch (from wikipedia)

Does that count?

Originally Posted by mitchy

how about Rolex first waterproof watch?

Quite true Perrelet invented the first self winding mechanism around 1770,later Breguet improved it and called his winding system perpetuelles.Now perhaps this is where Rolex got the idea to call there automatics Perpetual.But it was a guy called John Harwood from the Isle of Man UK,now he in 1923 took out a UK/World patent for the first truly automatic winding wrist watch.Now he went on with backing to produce many thousands of these watches,but mainly owing to the very hard industrial depression in the mid 1920s to 1930s in the UK he went broke.Now old Hans Wilsdorf of Rolex being a very clever but very shrewd man bought and took up this auto-winding patent for the Rolex Watch Company. And in the very early 1930s incorporated it into the oyster design case. And with the newly acquired waterproof screw down crown patent that the RWC got from Perregaux and Peret it was those pair of watchmakers who invented the twin lock crown they first took out a Swiss patent for it in 1925 .And with the new type Oyster case,screw down twinlock crown and this acquired auto wind patented mechanism, that in those very early days it only wound around 300 degrees the Rolex Oyster was born.Now Rolex did improved the design by the help of Hans brother in-law from Aeglar the watch movement side of the business,he made it more efficient by winding a full 360 degrees,and a power reserve then of around 36 hours.After the auto wind watch and the oyster case Rolex really took off the rest is just pure marketing genius by Hans.

[crew]

The advent & utilization of quartz technology has to be a top 10 advancement. The result was an extremely accurate, affordably priced watch for the masses.

[dysondiver]

padi , you shine ,,, again.

[1675-David]

The first Date complication! (I couldn't live without it) I think that was a rolex first?

[daunwaun]

a Simply fascinating read Padi!!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by daunwaun

a Simply fascinating read Padi!!

Thank you kind sir and here is another one, for twenty plus years George Daniels had attempted to introduce his new type watch escapement to the Swiss industry.Omega,Patek,Piguet,Zenith and even Rolex had prototypes in 1986 and 1989. There are many reasons why these companies entertained Daniels and many reasons why they decided to pass on the escapement. It seems to me that in the main it was an issue of expense to retool and develop the escapement for already built series movements and that it was an unknown quantity. Which in those early days was made in one-offs for the connoisseur watchmaker to try.Now these escapements needed to be oiled correctly to work 100% perfect and many of the watch industry did not follow Daniels instructions to the letter.And most did not follow his advice for the VPH (vibrations per hour).Now when Patek decided to try his escapement three wristwatch sized prototypes were made. The drawings were discussed and Daniels saw one big stumbling block, the proportion of the extra driving wheel. Patek rejected his notion, even in the face of Daniels working escapement,in the Patek provided movement prototype.By 1982 his prototype was cased and dialled from the Patek factory.Now Daniels says he gave the watch daily use for twelve years, when the self winding mechanism failed.But that was most properly from lack of maintenance It was not serviced to test the effectiveness of the escapement over a ten year period. The Daniels escapement functioned perfectly as Daniels said it would.The Patek analysis was quite critical and the prime fault was in the gears, which Daniels had mentioned at the beginning of the project.


The problems Omega recently faced when they first started are different. Omega did have tolerance problems (the impulse jewel on the lever would sometimes hit the crossings of the escape wheel). They also had a problem with an incorrect setting on the lubrication machine used during assembly, which led to over oiling the escape wheel on some movements. In use, the oil would creep down to the pinion and onto the intermediate wheel.All these problems have been addressed,In both cases neither Patek nor Omega would heed the advice of George Daniels, who proved his escapements worked and worked well.

So why is the Daniels escapement not used in many of the high end
watch houses.Well IMO I imagine it may have been as simple as "Not Swiss Made." or may turn out to be too complicated to make on a mass production scale or re-tool machines in-house?.But now Omega for one, plus a few more have made it work to a very high standard indeed.

Now today when you think of the humble wrist watch,basically
changing very little since John Harrison's days except today the industry is highly robotised.And with the many tweaks to the basic escapement over 250 years.I wonder what would have happened if Daniels was alive in Harrison's days 300 years ago,well for me Daniels escapement must be one of the horological breakthroughs of the century.But the mighty Swiss took little notice of his new idea.You must ask yourself why IMHO the main reason not Swiss idea.But lets remember 30 plus years ago when the Japanese,took on the Swiss.And almost destroyed the complete Swiss watch industry with the heretic quartz.And in many cases these Japanese mechanical watches,were equal in most cases with better accuracy, and product finish to equal any.

Must admit some of the watches being produced today,are bloody awful and ugly some seems to me have lost the plot completely.With innovations like lets put one no two or even four Toubillons in a wrist watch and other totally IMO unneeded complications, which only the chosen few could ever afford.Now these complication why, I suppose horological speaking are a
watchmakers art.In real terms add little to the watch,except perhaps owning something that costs mega bucks which is fine.But don't think these types of watches are owned by real watch enthusiasts like we guys on TRF.Now with Rolex, I admire Hans a great man who grabbed every opportunity,every new idea,and acquired it for his firm.Now the name Rolex must be the on top of the pile.I hope George Daniels escapement will find its way into most if not all the Swiss watch industry.And tweaked over the next 200 years again IMO the Daniels escapement horological speaking is far to important to let slip by.


Normal.

[Watch Professor]

Originally Posted by padi56

Thank you kind sir and here is another one, for twenty plus years George Daniels had attempted to introduce his new type watch escapement to the Swiss industry.Omega,Patek,Piguet,Zenith and even Rolex had prototypes in 1986 and 1989. There are many reasons why these companies entertained Daniels and many reasons why they decided to pass on the escapement. It seems to me that in the main it was an issue of expense to retool and develop the escapement for already built series movements and that it was an unknown quantity. Which in those early days was made in one-offs for the connoisseur watchmaker to try.Now these escapements needed to be oiled correctly to work 100% perfect and many of the watch industry did not follow Daniels instructions to the letter.And most did not follow his advice for the VPH (vibrations per hour).Now when Patek decided to try his escapement three wristwatch sized prototypes were made. The drawings were discussed and Daniels saw one big stumbling block, the proportion of the extra driving wheel. Patek rejected his notion, even in the face of Daniels working escapement,in the Patek provided movement prototype.By 1982 his prototype was cased and dialled from the Patek factory.Now Daniels says he gave the watch daily use for twelve years, when the self winding mechanism failed.But that was most properly from lack of maintenance It was not serviced to test the effectiveness of the escapement over a ten year period. The Daniels escapement functioned perfectly as Daniels said it would.The Patek analysis was quite critical and the prime fault was in the gears, which Daniels had mentioned at the beginning of the project.


The problems Omega recently faced when they first started are different. Omega did have tolerance problems (the impulse jewel on the lever would sometimes hit the crossings of the escape wheel). They also had a problem with an incorrect setting on the lubrication machine used during assembly, which led to over oiling the escape wheel on some movements. In use, the oil would creep down to the pinion and onto the intermediate wheel.All these problems have been addressed,In both cases neither Patek nor Omega would heed the advice of George Daniels, who proved his escapements worked and worked well.

So why is the Daniels escapement not used in many of the high end
watch houses.Well IMO I imagine it may have been as simple as "Not Swiss Made." or may turn out to be too complicated to make on a mass production scale or re-tool machines in-house?.But now Omega for one, plus a few more have made it work to a very high standard indeed.

Now today when you think of the humble wrist watch,basically
changing very little since John Harrison's days except today the industry is highly robotised.And with the many tweaks to the basic escapement over 250 years.I wonder what would have happened if Daniels was alive in Harrison's days 300 years ago,well for me Daniels escapement must be one of the horological breakthroughs of the century.But the mighty Swiss took little notice of his new idea.You must ask yourself why IMHO the main reason not Swiss idea.But lets remember 30 plus years ago when the Japanese,took on the Swiss.And almost destroyed the complete Swiss watch industry with the heretic quartz.And in many cases these Japanese mechanical watches,were equal in most cases with better accuracy, and product finish to equal any.

Must admit some of the watches being produced today,are bloody awful and ugly some seems to me have lost the plot completely.With innovations like lets put one no two or even four Toubillons in a wrist watch and other totally IMO unneeded complications, which only the chosen few could ever afford.Now these complication why, I suppose horological speaking are a
watchmakers art.In real terms add little to the watch,except perhaps owning something that costs mega bucks which is fine.But don't think these types of watches are owned by real watch enthusiasts like we guys on TRF.Now with Rolex, I admire Hans a great man who grabbed every opportunity,every new idea,and acquired it for his firm.Now the name Rolex must be the on top of the pile.I hope George Daniels escapement will find its way into most if not all the Swiss watch industry.And tweaked over the next 200 years again IMO the Daniels escapement horological speaking is far to important to let slip by.


Normal.

Excellent read, Padi. Thanks.

Would you say the new Omega movements are superior to the traditional Rolex movements?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Watch Professor

Excellent read, Padi. Thanks.

Would you say the new Omega movements are superior to the traditional Rolex movements?

There are so many movements around that are equal to Rolex in terms of accuracy and reliability.Some of the newer ones from Omega are equal but not superior in any way.Take movements like the Seiko Grand in terms of build quality accuracy they can give the Swiss mass produced and many of the very high end brands a run for there money.But afraid today its the same old story just got the wrong name on dial but a brilliant mechanical movement modern or vintage.

[1675-David]

great read Padi

[The Joker]

Padi

[Lion]

Thanx Padi for the history lessons.....now how about the digital watch!!!

[HDHNTER]

Originally Posted by 1675-david

great read padi

+1

[padi56]

Thanks guys and a very happy new year to all

[blackmsport]

What about

Casio Radio Controlled
Seiko Kinetic
and of course this but never takes off thanks to iPhone



and this

[dysondiver]

padi , great again
what about
panasonic ,,, who made the battery that made quartz an option. like it or not , it was a major step. [ i think it was panasonic , but someone may know different]

[padi56]

Originally Posted by dysondiver

padi , great again
what about
panasonic ,,, who made the battery that made quartz an option. like it or not , it was a major step. [ i think it was panasonic , but someone may know different]

Not 100% sure who made the batteries could have been many companies but Panasonic might have. Many years ago now I did once own a 5100 the first Rolex quartz it was new technology with the wow factor then and now regret selling it to go back to mechanical should have kept it.But it was just a new must have fad at the time, new quartz technology and something new in the up coming techno age age.And just had to buy it for technologies sake but I was and still am a mechanical watch guy,its a great watch with quite a bit of early Swiss quartz history..But lets not forget the new quartz watch onslaught with quartz watches from Japan nearly killed off the whole Swiss mechanical movement and watch industry back late 1960s 1970s


And Pre Rolex own quartz movement there was about 16 Swiss companies involved in the development of the first Beta 21 quartz movement.Now Bulova Accutron paid a high part in development of the step motor,the battery life then was around 12 months.But at this time Rolex could not alter the design of the beta 21 movement,to fit there Oyster case,so they then only stated the 5100 was water resist and not waterproof,and this was the first Rolex ever with a sapphire crystal.Later they started around 1972 to develop there own movement,but the design was very still close to the beta movement,but now designed to fit a oyster type case.





The Thermo-compensated Quartz watches made by Rolex:

Calibre: Rolex 5035 (and 5055 for the Day-Date model)
Technology: single 32 kHz crystal using the forced constant frequency (TCVCXO) method
Annual accuracy: around ±60 seconds a year (Rolex has never stated an official accuracy specification.)
Rate adjustable?: yes, via trimmer condenser (user adjustable)
Watches that use this movement:

Rolex Oyster-quartz (1977 to 2001)

Ref http://www.oysterquartz.net/

Now some of the selected Grand Seiko Japanese quartz model these were very very accurate quartz model but very expensive even then almost Rolex price some were more.


Note 1: Seiko re-issued a limited edition of the "Astron" in 2000 that used a special version of the 9F movement that was rated to ± 2 seconds per year after adjustment.
Now certainly the Japanese movement accuracy was much better than the Rolex movement
Note 2: The 9F movement is reportedly designed to run fifty years before it needs servicing.
Note 3: Other Grand Seiko quartz models use the 8J movement. Even less is know about this movement.
Source of information: Japanese retail sites


Now don't forget there are quite a lot of mechanical parts in a Rolex quartz analogue watch.The same type drive train as in the cal 3035 mechanical less the balance and escapement and main spring.Its main spring is the battery and escapement the quartz crystal,and the quartz movement was more expensive than its mechanical brother if ever it needed replacing.Service time around the same as the mechanical as for cost I would have thought around the same as mechanical.But Rolex then would replace batteries free of charge and replace case back seals but different story today.And today most good quality ETA/Japanese quartz analogue can match or better the Rolex Quartz for accuracy.

[dddrees]

Thanks for sharing Peter.

[Darlinboy]

Great info... Thanks!

You guys are what makes TRF such a great source of info and knowledge.

Happy New Year to all.

[RRGHOST1]

Excellent padi, great knowledge.