Dazed and confused...

[FeelingTheBlues]

Greetings TRF,

My apologies for getting this thread started but I just can't stand it anymore! I've been getting a couple of problems with my Accutron and so far I thought I had an explanation for everything but I'm afraid I have no other choice than ask you guys to help me with it. Now here's my little story, I bought this watch last Spring and have always been very fond of it but I noticed it started to lose some time. I made an average and realized it would lose 16 seconds a day and thought I could deal with it (I would adjust the time every once in a while and everything would be fine). Suddenly, the second hand stopped moving but I would still hear the movement humming so I brought it to my jeweler and he told me it was the end of the road. He offered me another Accutron movement but I refused to purchase it thinking it would probably have the same problems and thought I might as well get a quartz one directly from Bulova (don't get me wrong, I like the TF but I want my watch to work and Bulova told me they would do that with old Accutrons).

Now the real strange thing is that all of a sudden the movement started to work again and my watch continued to run but it would lose almost 5 minutes a day (I didn't calculate it but it was obvious at the end of the day that it wasn't on time anymore). I just decided to let it like this and adjusted it a couple of times when I'd think about it. However, since the last time I adjusted it (I believe it was at least a week and a half ago) I let it rest on its right side (the third marker's side) and, to my surprise, it's still at the very same time as my quartz watches. Now I know my watches are accurate but I'm getting to wonder what's the deal with it! Can anybody explain this to me? I know the position trick works with automatics but does it with electronic/TF movements? How come it doesn't even seem to lose seconds? Should I really get it serviced by my jeweler or perhaps buy the other movement and risk to have the same problems? Finally, I'm not sure about the average accuracy my watch should have, should it be a bit worse than quartz? Within COSC specs?

Sorry for the very long post and the questions but I just can't understand! Here's some pictures to entertain you in the meantime, I hope you will understand why I don't want to get rid of it...





Thank you for reading!

[FeelingTheBlues]

Okay, obviously my post was way too long and I realize it so please let me ask you simple questions to make it easier (I can hear you all screaming too long, didn't read! ), my apologies for the very long original post!

- Does the "put your watch on the third marker's side" trick to make it gain time works with TF watches as well?

- How come my watch used to lose almost 5 minutes a day and all of a sudden it's at the same time as my other watches without me adjusting it?

- Are tuning fork watches as accurate as quartz, a bit less or within COSC specs?

Thank you all for reading, I hope this post is less painful (I even had trouble reading it, I need to stop sometimes)!

[Andad]

Hi Carl.

Just wanted you to know that I read your post mate.

I reported it to the length police.



Put a new battery in it and see how you go.

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Hi Carl.

Just wanted you to know that I read your post mate.

I reported it to the length police.



Put a new battery in it and see how you go.

What can I say, I'm a poet...

What about: "watch: used to lose time, now good time, what can do?"

Seriously though, thank you for your answer. The problem is that the battery inside is brand new and I'm more surprised about the fact that it came back on time and kept it for a longer period than what I'm used to...

I think I'll let it go for a couple of days and see how it's acting!

[Andad]

Wouldn't be the first time that a 'new' battery has failed or needs to be re-installed Carl.

I replaced a battery in an Omega a few weeks ago and it wouldn't run - bought a second new battery and it is fine....just a suggestion before you spend a lot on it.

PS. Your post wasn't that long. I am currently reading 'Poor Fellow my Country'.

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Wouldn't be the first time that a 'new' battery has failed or needs to be re-installed Carl.

I replaced a battery in an Omega a few weeks ago and it wouldn't run - bought a second new battery and it is fine....just a suggestion before you spend a lot on it.

PS. Your post wasn't that long. I am currently reading 'Poor Fellow my Country'.

I'll surely give it a try if my little probation doesn't give any good results Eddie (who knows if it didn't just start to work properly, would be strange but miracles do happen! ). Thank you again!

P.S.: My post was longer than the limit allowed on internet: more than six words = TL;DR!

[mitchy]

Carl mate when was the last time that thing was serviced?? just cause its not a full Auto doesnt mean it doesnt need a service every 5-10 years, the oils dry up just the same as they do on an auto.
there could be a serious problem with the tuning fork in the watch, if the watch was banged or nocked too hard it can through the fork 'out of wack'. thats one of the major reasons we stopped working on those watches a few years back.
take it in to a pro not just a battery popper in the mall have it checked out and then decide if its worth repairing or not
ps mate read the whole thing.

pps just had an after thought you said the battery was farily new who changed it?? cause there is a small regulating screw on the inside of those movements that some people (mainly those who dont know what there doing) often try to unscrew or just move a bit and can have untold effects on the accuracy hope this helps

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by mitchy

Carl mate when was the last time that thing was serviced?? just cause its not a full Auto doesnt mean it doesnt need a service every 5-10 years, the oils dry up just the same as they do on an auto.
there could be a serious problem with the tuning fork in the watch, if the watch was banged or nocked too hard it can through the fork 'out of wack'. thats one of the major reasons we stopped working on those watches a few years back.
take it in to a pro not just a battery popper in the mall have it checked out and then decide if its worth repairing or not
ps mate read the whole thing.

pps just had an after thought you said the battery was farily new who changed it?? cause there is a small regulating screw on the inside of those movements that some people (mainly those who dont know what there doing) often try to unscrew or just move a bit and can have untold effects on the accuracy hope this helps

Thank you for your answer Mitch, the man who changed the battery is a Bulova AD (although there are a lot of them so it doesn't mean he knows what he's doing) as well as a relative of mine and he knows quite a lot about Accutrons since he and his father sold some years ago. I don't believe he unscrew anything but the little arm covering the battery when he changed it but if the problem persists I'll probably take it back.

As for the service, I don't believe the man who sold it to me ever had it serviced (funny fact: he sold it because he bought himself a Rolex, I do wish him to get used to this part of the deal!) so perhaps it would explain it but when I talked to my jeweler about it he offered me another movement rather than servicing this one even if I talked about it. Now perhaps (again, if the problem persists) I'll give it to him or a good watch maker to have the job done if it needs to but I still don't know what the accuracy of it will be. Either way if the movement really dies there's the option of having a quartz one put in by Bulova so I'm covered.

P.S.: Thank you for reading my post!

[everose]

Why don't you PM some of the helpful forum members around here who are vintage Bulova guys.........For example Pacifichrono and Alcan.(i am sure there are also others who i am forgetting)

[eric23]

Great photos Carl!

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by everose

Why don't you PM some of the helpful forum members around here who are vintage Bulova guys.........For example Pacifichrono and Alcan.(i am sure there are also others who i am forgetting)

I may do that but I thought starting a thread about it was helpful in case somebody else has this problem and would like some information about Accutrons.

Originally Posted by eric23

Great photos Carl!

Thank you Eric!

[Wrist Candy]

The Accutron tuning fork model was in production from 1959 until aprox 1978 when Bulova changed over to the quartz movement. Very few TF movement watches remained in service after the mid 80's as one component or another would die & most jewellery stores did not have parts and or expertise to repair them.

I own an RR 218 (railroad watch) that was given to me in 1977 by my mom & dad, and I used the watch in rail service for 18 years and then continually thereafter until 2005 when I bought my Breitling. The watch kept very good time (gain only, never slow) & probably within crono specs up until about 2000when it started to act up (stopping & loosing time.) The watch repair person that I used then had many "new" old stock parts as well as used parts that he had salvaged from the many TF watches that he took on trade for the new quartz models, so a replacement part was installed & the watch still runs today although it is back to loosing time once again.

The TF models were not as precise at the quartz units but were none the less very accurate. They were also much harder on batteries than the quartz watches (usually get a year out of them at most)

My old Accutron service man has since passed on but his replacement is very knowlegable & still has (to the best of my knowledge ) a large selection of parts.

Carl, if you interested in talking to the jeweler that I deal with PM me & I will get his contact info to you. (we're located in western Canada)

By the way, I'm going to try placing my watch on its 3 oclock side to see if that keeps it from losing time.

[watch watcher]

Could be a battery issue. Note, this covers 214 movement; not sure if it applies to yours:

"COIL MODIFICATION: The electronic circuit in your 214 (commonly referred to as the coil) was designed to run on 1.35 volt mercury batteries which are no longer sold in the USA. Currently available batteries produce 1.55 volts. Most 214's can be adjusted to run properly without too much difficulty, but a relative few have tuning forks that were manufactured at the lower end of their tolerances (photo). This was OK when the magnets were energized by 1.3 volts but at 1.5 volts these forks are over-active which causes them to periodically index two teeth instead of one. The adjustment of an over-active fork is so tenuous that any external force will cause it to speed up. This also explains why some watches run great on the dresser but too fast when worn.

"The micro-thin coil wire used in your 214 is already working against the ravages of age. Running an over-voltage of .2V through the delicate wire can't possibly be a good idea. The other delicate components in the circuit will not benefit either. Even if your 214 runs well with the new batteries, the longevity of your coil could be at risk. There is no longer any doubt that all 214's will benefit from a reduction in voltage back to the original 1.35 volts.

"Fortunately there is a way to permanently solve the problem. A diode which lowers battery voltage in the circuit by 0.2 volts can be installed in the coil. This is really the best possible solution to the problem. The watch will perform as it did when new, battery issues will be resolved, and the life of the coil will be extended. Whether actually needed or not, this inexpensive modification is highly recommended. It is not noticeable and it is reversible."

(credit: Martin Marcus)

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by Wrist Candy

The Accutron tuning fork model was in production from 1959 until aprox 1978 when Bulova changed over to the quartz movement. Very few TF movement watches remained in service after the mid 80's as one component or another would die & most jewellery stores did not have parts and or expertise to repair them.

I own an RR 218 (railroad watch) that was given to me in 1977 by my mom & dad, and I used the watch in rail service for 18 years and then continually thereafter until 2005 when I bought my Breitling. The watch kept very good time (gain only, never slow) & probably within crono specs up until about 2000when it started to act up (stopping & loosing time.) The watch repair person that I used then had many "new" old stock parts as well as used parts that he had salvaged from the many TF watches that he took on trade for the new quartz models, so a replacement part was installed & the watch still runs today although it is back to loosing time once again.

The TF models were not as precise at the quartz units but were none the less very accurate. They were also much harder on batteries than the quartz watches (usually get a year out of them at most)

My old Accutron service man has since passed on but his replacement is very knowlegable & still has (to the best of my knowledge ) a large selection of parts.

Carl, if you interested in talking to the jeweler that I deal with PM me & I will get his contact info to you. (we're located in western Canada)

By the way, I'm going to try placing my watch on its 3 oclock side to see if that keeps it from losing time.

Thank you for the information about your watch and your jeweler. If I ever need to get parts I'll surely use his contact information to help me find some!

Originally Posted by watch watcher

Could be a battery issue. Note, this covers 214 movement; not sure if it applies to yours:

"COIL MODIFICATION: The electronic circuit in your 214 (commonly referred to as the coil) was designed to run on 1.35 volt mercury batteries which are no longer sold in the USA. Currently available batteries produce 1.55 volts. Most 214's can be adjusted to run properly without too much difficulty, but a relative few have tuning forks that were manufactured at the lower end of their tolerances (photo). This was OK when the magnets were energized by 1.3 volts but at 1.5 volts these forks are over-active which causes them to periodically index two teeth instead of one. The adjustment of an over-active fork is so tenuous that any external force will cause it to speed up. This also explains why some watches run great on the dresser but too fast when worn.

"The micro-thin coil wire used in your 214 is already working against the ravages of age. Running an over-voltage of .2V through the delicate wire can't possibly be a good idea. The other delicate components in the circuit will not benefit either. Even if your 214 runs well with the new batteries, the longevity of your coil could be at risk. There is no longer any doubt that all 214's will benefit from a reduction in voltage back to the original 1.35 volts.

"Fortunately there is a way to permanently solve the problem. A diode which lowers battery voltage in the circuit by 0.2 volts can be installed in the coil. This is really the best possible solution to the problem. The watch will perform as it did when new, battery issues will be resolved, and the life of the coil will be extended. Whether actually needed or not, this inexpensive modification is highly recommended. It is not noticeable and it is reversible."

(credit: Martin Marcus)

Thank you, I already read about batteries and was aware the ones they used for Accutrons are now discontinued but I remember seeing a little chart showing the new batteries that could be put in my 218 if I needed to change it (my jeweler knows this information as well). As for the coil it wouldn't be a bad idea to ask my jeweler about this in order to avoid breaking it!

Thank you very much everybody, your information were very useful and I'll keep this thread in mind if unfortunate events happen again to my piece!

P.S.: I took a look today and the watch gained two or three minutes by letting it rest on its right side, I'll wear it some time tomorrow to find out if wearing it slows it down (it happened before) and see if I can find a little "schedule" to keep the time or, perhaps, have it regulated!