1675 Authenticity Problem

[Baptista]

Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?

I picked up a lovely 1675 today from my well know and reputable local vintage dealer. I put allot of faith in professional sellers to do the right thing and I'm afraid I may have brought myself undone.

I bought and paid for what I thought was a complete 1977 1675 Pepsi with an imperfect dial, but imperfections I could live with. Total cost was 5600 AUD which I was happy enough with. The trouble came tonight when I stumbled across the excellent dial guide on this very site, when I realized very quickly that my 1977 GMT had a long E, indicating (to me at least) that the dial was Mark 1

My question is, is this a big deal? Will it affect value? should I have been told by my reputable dealer?

I feel a little like I've been sold a "cut & shut" car

I'd appreciate your thoughts

[MP5]

I don't know what cut and shut means but yea, if that is really a 1977 it shouldn't have that dial. It also looks like resumed to match hands. All this "collector" bunk is infecting us though. A 1977 GMT isn't a primo collectors piece in the best of examples and I can never see it as such. What I'm interested in is paying a great price for great watches. I want to wear and enjoy, not delude myself or put my enjoyment of my watch in some pie in the sky future dreams of Southerbys fortunes.

Ok having said that, this "assembled" watch should not demand a premium, I don't know the market in your area but that should be the only issue and negotiating point if you love the watch. I would wear it but I wouldn't but it unless I paid a great price.

[azguy]

I'm interested in hearing what others have to say

[pdoukas]

Can you provide the serial number, rather confirm that it matches up to a 1977ish model. Perhaps you really do have an older model and the seller was misinformed.

If it is indeed a 1977, then yes the dial is incorrect. I can't speak for the possibility that it or the hands were relumed, but the hands and dial do not match.

At this point you have a couple of options.

1) Return the watch and do a lot more research.
2) Keep the watch and source a dial and hand set which will run you in the neighborhood of $600 + or - I believe. 1977 is not that rare and a WTB will find you a set within a few months I bet.
3) Keep it and enjoy it

Pete

[jjmcd]

As stated above, although a fantastic watch for you to wear, a 1977 GMT Master is NOT a collector's piece (if it was a 6542 or a pointed crown guards/gilt dial 1675, it would be a different story). The main value determinant for your watch is condition and presence of any non-Rolex parts. As such, if you sent it to Rolex for service and they fitted it with a NEW service replacement dial and hands, its value would probably be increased (not decreased). I very much doubt that anyone who would buy the watch from you would care whether its dial is a Mark I, Mark II or any other variant, as long as it is a genuine Rolex dial for a 1675 GMT Master. As a result, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Baptista]

Thanks for your honest replys

I've been impulsive with the purchase and I'm kicking myself. I've decided to ask the dealer if he's interested in replacing the dial with one from the same period. Failing that I'll find a dial or dial / hands combo and have them replaced down the track.

I love the watch but I think I've overpaid which is no ones fault but my own

EDIT: Serial is 525XXXX

[Mark020]

5,25m is 1978 so dial is definitely replaced. Given the price you paid I'd say reverse the deal.

[greekbum]

IMHO the dial did not come in this watch new BUT is it an issue to you is the question? Did you want and pay for a 100% original (period correct) watch? Dials hands bezels etc are often changed at service,damaged and replaced etc. There is IMHO a difference in price to those that are not technically 100% period correct to those that are.

[harry in montreal]

The dealer should understand and respect your desire to reverse the transaction. Likely he did, or should have known this was an issue with the watch. That is a lot of money for this model. I thought a nice one can be found for a grand less. i am just saying you paid top money for a Classic Car with an unoriginal motor.

[mike]

As mentioned the dial is probably not original to the watch, but I always hesitate to make a hard and fast rule as Rolex never does.

Some good points have been made about collectability. The days where about any vintage piece could be counted on to rise a bunch in value are over IMO. Quality will always play a part, but the craziness we saw a couple years ago has passed.

I'm not sure the dial has been relumed based on that photo though. It does seem the tritium is flaking in spots.

[Scary Hat]

Check with the dealer and see if he is willing to "unwind" the deal and give your money back. You will not be happy with the watch, so why hassle with it?

Had you known it was not correct would you have bought it? Probably not.


Tom

[Baptista]

The dealer was really helpful. I spoke to him this morning and he's asked if I could take the piece in for him to look over. He thinks the case may have been replaced earlier in its life so it'll contain a movement consistent with the dial. I'm taking it in this afternoon so I'll update you with what happens

[Scary Hat]

Hope it works out for you!


Tom

[Brisman]

What was the outcome of this, out of interest?

[RC2]

What happened?

[Baptista]

The dealer confirmed the movement, dial and hands were of the same vintage but the case had been changed. The case back seems to be different again, dated 71 so I guess that got changed out at another time.

It was all a bit bewildering but the end result was my dealer asked me what would make me happy, so I opted for having him chase up an MKIV / hand set to match the case. As long as the dial and hands are nice than I'll be very happy