Japanese F1 Results & discussion

[CEG]

Another numero uno on the podium this morning in Japan, in F1.. I shouldn't say it, but me thinks he's home and dry for the championship in his debut season..

I understand he's quite big stateside already too ?

Lewis.jpg

[frostie]

Congrats to hamilton

[Alcan]

And he's 12 points up on Alonzo now.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by Alcan

And he's 12 points up on Alonzo now.

On my calculations, just a finish next week where he is only a point behind Alonso (or better) - and he's home dry


When he was 16/17 I used to work with him (Hamilton) at the mercedes garage where I am still employed - he was always a lovely fella, with maturity well beyond his years.

I now pick up his car(s) for servicing etc as his Mum/Dad's house is just down the road from the dealership.

I will be pleased as punch for him if he pulls it off

[thomas311]

d'oh! as soon as i saw this thread i knew he'd won the race...

i have it recorded on my DVR and have yet to watch it. oh well, at least i wont be surprised by the ending.

it would be awesome if/when he could take the championship this year.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by thomas311

d'oh! as soon as i saw this thread i knew he'd won the race...

i have it recorded on my DVR and have yet to watch it. oh well, at least i wont be surprised by the ending.

it would be awesome if/when he could take the championship this year.

Still well, well worth the watch !!

[Claude]

Originally Posted by thomas311

d'oh! as soon as i saw this thread i knew he'd won the race...

i have it recorded on my DVR and have yet to watch it. oh well, at least i wont be surprised by the ending.

Don’t let that spoil it; this was the best race of the season. Absolutely dramatic, you will love it.

[S2000 Driver]

Originally Posted by CEG

...I understand he's quite big stateside already too?

Unfortunately, F1 is hardly a blip on the sports radar screen here in the States.

This is NASCAR country -- the F1 race at Indy sucks.



The best F1 race around here is in Montreal.

[Lol-x]

Seems like there is a bit of a huge rift between Hamilton and Alonso.
Evidently Hamilton's father has tried to shake hands with Alonso's father on at least 3 occasions and Alonso's father has failed to raise his hand.
Anyway, Mark Webber is a sorry soul again, he was sure to get second when his co-team driver hit him from behind when of all things they were behind the pace car Incredible.
I saw the other driver physically sobbing against the wall in shame and disappointment.
Webber was scathing, and I think the TV audio was edited because of his profanity.
Anyway, more power to Hamilton (although he has enough already)

[Alcan]

So what was the deal with the Ferrari's starting on intermediates, and why weren't they penalized? I heard the "We weren't notified", but come on now. Every other team was.

[daunwaun]

Its all politics

[Lol-x]

Given that Ferrari started with intermediates, that was a breach of the rules. However, as the track remained wet throughout the entire race, Ferrari gained no benefit, in fact they suffered a detriment in having intermediate weather tyres for a wet track.
Accordingly, as there was no advantage to Ferrari there was no benefit.
I want to know why if McLaren has been found guilty of espionage, and its drivers have either knowingly or unknowingly used that technology (and it would seem given their positions they have benefited) why is only McLaren penalised and not it's drivers too. Even if the drivers are innocent, they have technically competed illegally by utilising stolen property from McLaren in the form of designs etc. I don't know.

[Tripp11]

Originally Posted by CEG

Another numero uno on the podium this morning in Japan, in F1.. I shouldn't say it, but me thinks he's home and dry for the championship in his debut season..

I understand he's quite big stateside already too ?

Attachment 11304

The car enthusiast sites I frequent would be up in arms about this thread title - how about a spoiler alert next time?!

Spent all day tailgating and attending the Indianapolis Colts game and will watch the race later tonight - of course, now I know who won.

[S2000 Driver]

Originally Posted by Tripp11

The car enthusiast sites I frequent would be up in arms about this thread title - how about a spoiler alert next time?!

Spent all day tailgating and attending the Indianapolis Colts game and will watch the race later tonight - of course, now I know who won.

[Lol-x]

I changed the title of the thread, just in case some guys don't know the results yet and haven't seen the race, I don't want to spoil their fun.
I hope this is O.K.

[Gedanken]

Well Dan, I'll trust your judgement if you know the guy in person, but I haven't been a big fan since Melbourne. At the post-race conference he spoke about forcing Felipe Massa into an error when Massa clearly tripped over himself, and I've taken everything the lad's said with a pinch of salt since then.

On top of that, with all the bleating that both Hamilton and Alonso have made to the press about each other, right now I wouldn't be to sorry to see either of them leave the grid. At least Alonso shut up a month ago and went back to doing his talking on the track. I can't believe Hamilton's still wailing to the press about the first lap of Spa - he was half a car length behind, Alonso had the racing line, and if he doesn't want to deal with that kind of thing he doesn't have any business being in that car.

Between the antics of those two plus the idiocy of Mike Coughlan and Ron Dennis, this season's been a black comedy of errors and an utterly forgettable one unless you're into the Young and Restless.

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I want to know why if McLaren has been found guilty of espionage, and its drivers have either knowingly or unknowingly used that technology (and it would seem given their positions they have benefited) why is only McLaren penalised and not it's drivers too. Even if the drivers are innocent, they have technically competed illegally by utilising stolen property from McLaren in the form of designs etc. I don't know.

Steve, you're a lawyer - can you say "plea bargain"?

[CEG]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Well Dan, I'll trust your judgement if you know the guy in person, but I haven't been a big fan since Melbourne. At the post-race conference he spoke about forcing Felipe Massa into an error when Massa clearly tripped over himself, and I've taken everything the lad's said with a pinch of salt since then.

On top of that, with all the bleating that both Hamilton and Alonso have made to the press about each other, right now I wouldn't be to sorry to see either of them leave the grid. At least Alonso shut up a month ago and went back to doing his talking on the track. I can't believe Hamilton's still wailing to the press about the first lap of Spa - he was half a car length behind, Alonso had the racing line, and if he doesn't want to deal with that kind of thing he doesn't have any business being in that car.

Between the antics of those two plus the idiocy of Mike Coughlan and Ron Dennis, this season's been a black comedy of errors and an utterly forgettable one unless you're into the Young and Restless.

Appreciate your views, but they are certainly not shared by the majority of people over here !! In my personal experience he is a very level headed chap, hey maybe he'll change slightly (anyone would) but thus far I think he's handling the pressure/press very well

[dman]

In all honesty I would think he would be held in high regard in his own country but in many F1 circles that is not the case.

in those he is a talented driver no doubt but also a spoon fed media darling pompous ass that needs to be reminded weekly to say we not I. Watch or read any pressconference of his and you will see the word I three times as the other drivers combined.

I think he a tremendous driver but I think has miles to go off the track growing up.

[Gedanken]

F1's gotten boring thanks to Mad Max Mosley's misguided attempts at changing F1. He wants to make F1 safer but reduces grip by introducing grooves. He wants to increase overtaking but shifts the emphasis from mechanical to aerodynamic grip. As a result these days, we get a high-speed procession instead of a real race except when it rains. Who put this failed one-time team owner in charge? Jean-Marie Balestre was a jackass, but at least he knew racing.

Nothing against any of the present drivers, but it's not the same anymore. Up till the early nineties, we had a couple of world champions on the track at the same time duking it out. Back when we had Prost, Senna, Mansell and Piquet on the track, we had real races, and even then they didn't quite stack up to great battles like Villeneuve/Arnoux at Dijon in 1979. For most of the past decade we've had one world champion taking all the goodies and the rest of the grid letting him do it. If we had the supply of real racers like we used to have, many people would now be saying "Michael who?". After Hakkinen's departure, Alonso was the first driver who didn't just roll over and expose his belly to Schumacher, and that took long enough.

There's a promising new development at the moment, involving splitting the cars' rear wings into left and right sections, which promises to reduce the turbulence left in the wake of the cars and thereby bring back some real racing. There's also been talk of bringing back slicks. If Mad Max had any sense he'd give both the OK, but I'm not holding my breath.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by dman

spoon fed media darling pompous ass

I would say, VERY harsh, but there.

[Gedanken]

It's harsh, Dan, but I've heard the same opinion from quite a few F1 fans and Daren's not wrong in reflecting that opinion.

McLaren were very wise right at the start to keep Hamilton from talking to the press because he does have a tendency to put himself in a bad light. Starting with the Melbourne press conference I mentioned earlier, he's out his foot in it quite a few times, e.g.:

- saying that his performance dropped because he cared more about McLaren than Alonso does
- ripping into Alonso for the Spa first corner incident when it was normal racing, taking it back when told to by McLaren, and then backtracking and going at it again
- openly saying that Alonso should go to Ferrari and leave McLaren to himself

On top of that, many pundits are not far off the truth in opining that Hamilton is McLaren's test-tube project, having brought him along since the age of 12. Hamilton's recent comments about his wanting Alonso to leave have not helped dispel that image.

The British press has not done Hamilton any favours whatsoever. They're as nationalisitic as any other country's media, and the British press coverage of Hamilton in comparison to Alonso justifies Daren's description IMHO - he's British, and he's their darling, as much as Alonso is the darling of the Spanish media.

All in all, conventional wisdom has always been that racing drivers need to shut up to the press and do their talking on the track, and young Hamilton would learn well from this. At the current rate, he's been shrink-wrapped, packaged and turned into F1's version of one of the Backstreet Boys.

Now my view may not be a popular one, but I've been watching F1 for just about 20 years now and I've seen enough to make up my own mind about who's who and what's what on the grid, and it's not really coming out in Hamilton's favour. If he is going to be the first rookie to win the WDC, you'd need to take into account how many rookies actually started with a championship-winning team. The closest we've come to that of late is Jacques Villeneuve, and even then Williams was on the downswing at a point where Renault were pulling out of F1. Sure, he's good, but if Hakkinen had joined McLaren in 1991 and Senna hadn't been there, or Raikonnen or Alonso had been with the top teams instead of Sauber and Minardi respectively, history might have all been different. I'm just advocating some perspective here.

Mind you, I'm no Schumacher fan, but the one thing I'll take my hat off to him for is that he went over to Ferrari and, working with some of his old crew like Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn, brought Ferrari out of the doldrums and made them a strong team again. I've got plenty to say about the guy's cheating ways, but at that I'll say that he's one helluva driver for what he's done for Ferrari. Schumacher has openly said that he emulated Senna's working style - Senna was known to keep his team well past midnight on testing days going working out how to best develop the car. Prost was known for what Murray Walker termed "mechanical sympathy", Black Jack Brabham built his own cars, and the Lotus mechanics had to unnecessarily change Jim Clark's brake pads between races because Graham Hill was feeling bad about going through them at four times the rate.

All of these all-time greats (yes, dare I say it, even Schumacher) didn't just get in, turn the wheel and stomp on the pedal - they were the complete package because they knew the cars as well as driving them. What with all of the electronic doohickies driving the car for the drivers these days, until I see Hamilton, Alonso or any of the others doing something of the sort, sorry, they're just short of special.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

It's harsh, Dan, but I've heard the same opinion from quite a few F1 fans and Daren's not wrong in reflecting that opinion.

McLaren were very wise right at the start to keep Hamilton from talking to the press because he does have a tendency to put himself in a bad light. Starting with the Melbourne press conference I mentioned earlier, he's out his foot in it quite a few times, e.g.:

- saying that his performance dropped because he cared more about McLaren than Alonso does
- ripping into Alonso for the Spa first corner incident when it was normal racing, taking it back when told to by McLaren, and then backtracking and going at it again
- openly saying that Alonso should go to Ferrari and leave McLaren to himself

On top of that, many pundits are not far off the truth in opining that Hamilton is McLaren's test-tube project, having brought him along since the age of 12. Hamilton's recent comments about his wanting Alonso to leave have not helped dispel that image.

The British press has not done Hamilton any favours whatsoever. They're as nationalisitic as any other country's media, and the British press coverage of Hamilton in comparison to Alonso justifies Daren's description IMHO - he's British, and he's their darling, as much as Alonso is the darling of the Spanish media.

All in all, conventional wisdom has always been that racing drivers need to shut up to the press and do their talking on the track, and young Hamilton would learn well from this. At the current rate, he's been shrink-wrapped, packaged and turned into F1's version of one of the Backstreet Boys.

Maybe I'm just plain biased then. I'll leave it there.

[Jimbits76]

I'm a Brit and I'm a fan of Lewis.

In our climate of overpaid footballing quasi thugs (even our cricketers are turning into them), he has been a breath of fresh air with his media savvy 'grounded' personality. A true talent and star to boot and sporty kids could do a lot worse than look up to somebody like him.

There will always be people in the Uk who turn against their stars...in fact the media have a history of building people up to tear them down.

In my years watching F1, Mansell always seemed full of himself, Hill was just too nice, Brundall (local boy woohoo) and Blundell were only ever really also rans whilst Button has always seemed to fit the F1 playboy mould where he is more effective in a club or on a yacht than he is on a track(though he is a great driver in the wet!).

I say good luck to Hamilton, I hope he wins it although I must say that if Alonso does hop to the prancing ponies, next year's constructors and drivers will be wide open!

[Gedanken]

James, at the current rate, if Alonso does move over, both he and Lewis will be driving Ferraris next year.

Mansell did whinge a bit too much, and Damon Hill never quite got out from under his father's shadow but the job he did filling the #1 slot when Senna died more than made up for it. The one British driver I really did want to see do better was Johnny Herbert - he had talent, but he just never seemed to have the right car.

[Jimbits76]

I just worry about Kimi....he's had some poor luck this year and with Schuey grooming Massa...who's gonna get the bullet?

[Gedanken]

To be blunt, Kimi's not one that I've got a lot of faith in. Sure, he's fast, but he just doesn't have the bottle for the times when the chips are down. Then again, looking at Mika, Coulthard and other drivers, that's not such a big deal if you don't consider Kimi's retainer.

One moment of F1 magic I still clearly remember is Suzuka 1989. After crashing with Prost, Senna gets back on the track around 30 seconds behind Alessandro Nanini who's inherited the lead. Senna pulls out all the stops, simply drives around everybody else and hauls Nanini in to take the win - as Murray Walker said at the time, "he's driving like a man possessed". Winning from behind like that is something you don't see much anymore, although Schumacher and Alonso have had their moments, but that's real racing. I'd love to have watched Fangio do his thing at the Nurburgring in 1957, but that was well before my time.

[Jimbits76]

Ayrton Senna....one word in your post said it all....Magic!!!!!

[Gedanken]

Two words, my friend, two words: Donnington 1993.

[CEG]

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

he has been a breath of fresh air with his media savvy 'grounded' personality. A true talent and star to boot and sporty kids could do a lot worse than look up to somebody like him.



although I must say that if Alonso does hop to the prancing ponies, next year's constructors and drivers will be wide open!