Duties buying overseas? Germany

[seabreeze]

When you buy a watch from a private seller overseas, in this case Germany? How is it shipped? simple Fedex? The seller thinks I might have to pay duties? Are inbound duties involved? Is there a workaround?

Thanks

[Micha]

if it's a Rolex, you better NOT......

http://www.crownandcaliber.com/watch...united-states/

[JGX]

As I understand it, unless it's just the one watch and then, physically on your wrist, you can end up with a whole heap of pain importing a Rolex into the US.

[Jsan20]

The price difference can't be worth the headache unless its vintage.

[seabreeze]

good advice - well taken

Thanks

[porschejeff]

I was just opffered up a Panerai from someone in the UK. It looked like a nice piece, at a reasonable price. I asked him about customs and duties. He said he would ship it like a gift. I thought I would pass on this "opportunity".

[AK797]

Send it as a watch repair, thats the common practice, and fully insured.

[bayerische]

It will most likely be stopped in US customs. As private importation of Rolex's isn't allowed in the US.

[joe100]

Buy in your home country under all circumstances

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Don't do it! CBP is very strict with importing Rolexes.

[unclesallie]

Beware! Here is the URL from CBP's website:

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id...ightedArticles


Trademarked and Copyrighted Articles
CBP enforces laws relating to the protection of trademarks and copyrights. Articles that infringe a federally registered trademark or copyright or copyright protected by the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works are subject to detention and/ or seizure. Infringing articles may consist of articles that use a protected right without the authorization of the trademark or copyright owner or articles that copy or simulate a protected right.


Articles bearing marks that are counterfeit or inappropriately using a federally registered trademark are subject to seizure and forfeiture. The importation of articles intended for sale or public distribution bearing counterfeit marks may subject an individual to a civil fine if the registered trademark has also been recorded with CBP. Articles bearing marks that are confusingly similar to a CBP recorded registered trademark, and restricted gray market articles (goods bearing genuine marks not intended for U.S. importation for which CBP granted gray market protection) are subject to detention and seizure.


However, travelers arriving in the United States may be permitted an exemption and allowed to import one article of each type, which must accompany the person, bearing a counterfeit, confusingly similar or restricted gray market trademark, provided that the article is for personal use and is not for sale.


This exemption may be granted not more than once every 30 days. The arriving passenger may retain one article of each type accompanying the person. For example, an arriving person who has three purses, whether each bears a different infringing trademark, or whether all three bear the same infringing trademark, is permitted only one purse. If the article imported under the personal exemption provision is sold within one year after the date of importation, the article or its value is subject to forfeiture.


In regard to copyright infringement, articles that are determined by CBP to be clearly piratical of a protected copyright, i.e., unauthorized articles that are substantially similar to a material protected by a copyright, are subject to seizure. A personal use exemption for articles, similar to that described above also applies to copyrighted articles for the personal, non-commercial use of the importer and are not for sale or distribution.


You may bring back genuine trademarked and copyrighted articles (subject to duties). Products subject to copyright protection most commonly imported include software on CD-ROMs, sound recordings, toys, stuffed animals, clothing with cartoon characters, videotapes, DVDs, music CDs and books. Products subject to trademark protection most commonly imported include handbags and accessories, and clothing.

[seabreeze]

There's got to be more than a few lawyers in a rolex forum to weigh in but this makes no sense. There is no trademark infringement on a legally purchased item.

These are restriction on counterfeit goods
Rolex USA cannot impede lawful commerce. All I see is that you must pay duties. Of course

Originally Posted by unclesallie

Beware! Here is the URL from CBP's website:

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id...ightedArticles


Trademarked and Copyrighted Articles
CBP enforces laws relating to the protection of trademarks and copyrights. Articles that infringe a federally registered trademark or copyright or copyright protected by the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works are subject to detention and/ or seizure. Infringing articles may consist of articles that use a protected right without the authorization of the trademark or copyright owner or articles that copy or simulate a protected right.


Articles bearing marks that are counterfeit or inappropriately using a federally registered trademark are subject to seizure and forfeiture. The importation of articles intended for sale or public distribution bearing counterfeit marks may subject an individual to a civil fine if the registered trademark has also been recorded with CBP. Articles bearing marks that are confusingly similar to a CBP recorded registered trademark, and restricted gray market articles (goods bearing genuine marks not intended for U.S. importation for which CBP granted gray market protection) are subject to detention and seizure.


However, travelers arriving in the United States may be permitted an exemption and allowed to import one article of each type, which must accompany the person, bearing a counterfeit, confusingly similar or restricted gray market trademark, provided that the article is for personal use and is not for sale.


This exemption may be granted not more than once every 30 days. The arriving passenger may retain one article of each type accompanying the person. For example, an arriving person who has three purses, whether each bears a different infringing trademark, or whether all three bear the same infringing trademark, is permitted only one purse. If the article imported under the personal exemption provision is sold within one year after the date of importation, the article or its value is subject to forfeiture.


In regard to copyright infringement, articles that are determined by CBP to be clearly piratical of a protected copyright, i.e., unauthorized articles that are substantially similar to a material protected by a copyright, are subject to seizure. A personal use exemption for articles, similar to that described above also applies to copyrighted articles for the personal, non-commercial use of the importer and are not for sale or distribution.


You may bring back genuine trademarked and copyrighted articles (subject to duties). Products subject to copyright protection most commonly imported include software on CD-ROMs, sound recordings, toys, stuffed animals, clothing with cartoon characters, videotapes, DVDs, music CDs and books. Products subject to trademark protection most commonly imported include handbags and accessories, and clothing.

[mikkibarry]

I'm a lawyer. They may confiscate the watch and you will be out the money and the watch. It stinks but unless you can talk congress into changing intellectual property scope creep (and I hear congress is busy right now) that's what we are faced with.

[seabreeze]

Originally Posted by mikkibarry

I'm a lawyer. They may confiscate the watch and you will be out the money and the watch. It stinks but unless you can talk congress into changing intellectual property scope creep (and I hear congress is busy right now) that's what we are faced with.

Makes no sense...there is no scope creep on legally purchased goods. Rolex received the money for the original sale, they cannot control its use or reuse...it not an infringement to resell the watch. Help me here

The mark is protected from likenesses of the mark, not legal instances of the mark not passing thru dealers



Now if there is widespread misunderstanding and some customs officers have taken to taking them, that may reason enough to not do it....but stupidity shouldn't be confused with law


Update: check of the USPTO indicates that rolex USA has the mark...not the manufacturer ....so this will cost me $ to find out the answer Tmo.....unless you want to answer for free

[mikkibarry]

Ok let me try to sum up 20 years of intellectual property law expansion in a few lines while typing on an iPhone. You've likely seen the news stories where customs seizes pallet loads of fake purses? Those seizures are based on misuse of trademark. According to Rolex USA they are the only ones authorized to use the Rolex trademark in the US. If they haven't given permission for that particular watch to be imported, it is counterfeit vis a vis Rolex USA trademark rights. I do NOT agree with this overreach of trademark law to prohibit entry of a watch meant for an individual that is not entering the commerce stream, but the IP cartel has lots more power than I do.

[seabreeze]

Originally Posted by mikkibarry

Ok let me try to sum up 20 years of intellectual property law expansion in a few lines while typing on an iPhone. You've likely seen the news stories where customs seizes pallet loads of fake purses? Those seizures are based on misuse of trademark. According to Rolex USA they are the only ones authorized to use the Rolex trademark in the US. If they haven't given permission for that particular watch to be imported, it is counterfeit vis a vis Rolex USA trademark rights. I do NOT agree with this overreach of trademark law to prohibit entry of a watch meant for an individual that is not entering the commerce stream, but the IP cartel has lots more power than I do.

Yeah. That's why I amended my answer. ( the smart thing would have been to erase and backspace). I assumed rolex the parent owned the mark till I looked it up....but having said that I have to assume that the parent owns part or all of rolex USA...
But I really don't care. I'll just buy a us watch

Boy a million units a year at $10,000 average give you money to do stuff

[chicfarmer1]

Originally Posted by seabreeze

Makes no sense...there is no scope creep on legally purchased goods. Rolex received the money for the original sale, they cannot control its use or reuse...it not an infringement to resell the watch.

Rolex USA exerts control effectively, for complex legal reasons. There are useful threads in this forum and other watch forums on attempts to import Rolex watches bought out of country.

[seabreeze]

Originally Posted by chicfarmer1

Rolex USA exerts control effectively, for complex legal reasons. There are useful threads in this forum and other watch forums on attempts to import Rolex watches bought out of country.

Yes I have read up....I think I have figured out how they are doing it....enough to pass and just buy one here