Need advice on a 1680 Red Sub

[agsstructures]

Hello,

Looking to trade my Sub-C or just buy outright a 1680 Red Sub. Here is the following information:

3.6 million red 1680 from 1972. All original dial, hands and even the date wheel. Only thing is the current bracelet 93150 with 580.

Seller is asking $8200. No box or papers included. Let me know your thoughts as it would be my first venture into the vintage world.

[Datocompax]

It looks a good MK V dial to me, overall acceptable condition IMO

[bluemartinifan]

I am not a dial expert but can comment on the case.
The crown guards look good, the lug chamfers are a bit rounded from polishing. An issue for some, less for others. Also loupe the lug holes, are they rounded out from polishes or crisp and sharp? I look for as original and as intact chamfers as possible. i.e. below is a 5.2 mil 1680 I recently got with original intact chamfers, notice the sharp crisp lug holes:
Good Luck!
Russ

[azguy]

Looks great, fantastic patina

[springer]

$8200 seems very reasonable for the watch. Many red Subs have the replacement 93150 bracelet and it doesn't seem to bother the connoisseurs of red Sub. The lugs seem to have been polished which is not an issue for me as you will find most vintage watches that have been properly serviced in the past included a polish of the case/lugs. Back in the day, like modern watches, most buyers of pre-owned Rolex really weren't to savvy about purchasing a pre-owned Rolex with worn, nicked, or beat-up cases/lugs.

[r4gs]

Some details tt u should pay very close attention to:

1. Dial surface at 6 o'clock under the 'swiss t<25' appears to be chipped with the 6.30 minute hash mark completely missing.
2. Some possible corrosion on the rehaut under the crystal between 1 and 3 o'clock.
3. Left lower lug appears noticeably thinner than the other 3 lugs, and all lugs are rounder/worn with little bevel left.
4. Crystal has some dings at 12 and 2 o'clock corners.
5. Check the caseback under the rubber gasket for corrosion and also between the lugs. Have the movement timed if possible to reveal any potential movement issues (worn balance staff, hairspring, mainspring etc).

Otherwise, dial, hands, bezel, insert and crown look to be in order. Price is pretty good for the whole package. A 93150 commands roughly similar prices to a 9315 so tt wouldn't deter a purchase for me.

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by r4gs

Some details tt u should pay very close attention to:

1. Dial surface at 6 o'clock under the 'swiss t<25' appears to be chipped with the 6.30 minute hash mark completely missing.
2. Some possible corrosion on the rehaut under the crystal between 1 and 3 o'clock.
3. Left lower lug appears noticeably thinner than the other 3 lugs, and all lugs are rounder/worn with little bevel left.
4. Crystal has some dings at 12 and 2 o'clock corners.
5. Check the caseback under the rubber gasket for corrosion and also between the lugs. Have the movement timed if possible to reveal any potential movement issues (worn balance staff, hairspring, mainspring etc).

Otherwise, dial, hands, bezel, insert and crown look to be in order. Price is pretty good for the whole package. A 93150 commands roughly similar prices to a 9315 so tt wouldn't deter a purchase for me.

Actually sir I am the owner of this watch that you are critiquing solely based on these photos. The dial IS NOT chipped at the 6:00 marker and the hash mark IS NOT missing. The dial has slight chipping at the 55-58 min markers which I fully disclosed. 2. There is absolutely NO corrosion on the rehaut. 3. This watch has been polished, the lugs are not in original condition which I fully disclosed to the buyer. 4. The crystal has absolutely NO dings anywhere. 5. This watch was recently professionally serviced.

I dont appreciate your over zealous attempt at tying to prove yourself worthy as a vintage expert.

I sent these photos privately to a potential buyer. I had no idea my watch was being floated around TRF being critiqued by someone who absolutely knows nothing about it.

And "knobberboy" a simple email or text letting me know you were going to parade my watch on TRF would of been the appropriate thing to do.

Matt

[nycpassat]

Are you still going to sell/ trade with him?

Originally Posted by mrh1797

Actually sir I am the owner of this watch that you are critiquing solely based on these photos. The dial IS NOT chipped at the 6:00 marker and the hash mark IS NOT missing. The dial has slight chipping at the 55-58 min markers which I fully disclosed. 2. There is absolutely NO corrosion on the rehaut. 3. This watch has been polished, the lugs are not in original condition which I fully disclosed to the buyer. 4. The crystal has absolutely NO dings anywhere. 5. This watch was recently professionally serviced.

I dont appreciate your over zealous attempt at tying to prove yourself worthy as a vintage expert.

I sent these photos privately to a potential buyer. I had no idea my watch was being floated around TRF being critiqued by someone who absolutely knows nothing about it.

And "knobberboy" a simple email or text letting me know you were going to parade my watch on TRF would of been the appropriate thing to do.

Matt

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by nycpassat

Are you still going to sell/ trade with him?

Apparently not. I sent him a text just to confirm our deal as I had provided my bank information and shipping addresses. I was then told "if you have another buyer go ahead and sell it". It was after that I discovered this thread.

There are ways to go about verifying watches. I completely understand and would expect that from a potential buyer. I repeatedly asked him to call me so I can explain all that I knew about this watch. He never called. Now after committing to a deal, 3 days later, he flakes.

Pretty lame.

[springer]

Originally Posted by mrh1797

Actually sir I am the owner of this watch that you are critiquing solely based on these photos. The dial IS NOT chipped at the 6:00 marker and the hash mark IS NOT missing. The dial has slight chipping at the 55-58 min markers which I fully disclosed. 2. There is absolutely NO corrosion on the rehaut. 3. This watch has been polished, the lugs are not in original condition which I fully disclosed to the buyer. 4. The crystal has absolutely NO dings anywhere. 5. This watch was recently professionally serviced.

I dont appreciate your over zealous attempt at tying to prove yourself worthy as a vintage expert.

I sent these photos privately to a potential buyer. I had no idea my watch was being floated around TRF being critiqued by someone who absolutely knows nothing about it.

And "knobberboy" a simple email or text letting me know you were going to parade my watch on TRF would of been the appropriate thing to do.

Matt

Matt, I can imagine your frustration and you are not the first one this has happened to here. In the past, I've received several private emails asking for opinions on watches posted for sale and refuse to critique a watch unless something is misrepresented or incorrect in the listing.

What I find ironic is, if someone had purchased this watch and brought it on here for the whole world to see, everyone would be saying how great it is. On the other hand, bring the same watch here for a critique and everyone becomes an "internet expert." To repeat my comment on your watch from my earlier post, I think that the watch offered by you is priced very reasonable considering condition, service history etc.

The problem as I see it, guys read a few threads here, there, and wherever and take everything they read as gospel. From "silver date wheels" to production dates for dials, serial number stampings, warranty papers etc etc, if someone reads an erroneous comment - it is now fact. I respond to many of these erroneous comments, but many times it is lost in translation.

My last comment is about case polishing, and I've said it before and I'll say it again. I see many watches being posted here, and elsewhere, that are claiming to be unpolished originals which are only unpolished originals in the "eyes of the seller" who hyped his watch to the new owner. I see many watches on here lately that aren't even close to being original, unpolished Rolexes. Further, the number of watches with lasered, chamfered lugs to fool unwitting buyers is getting ridiculous.

40-year-old watches do not look new!!!!!!!!!!! Be extra cautious of any vintage watch claiming to be unpolished. Properly serviced watches were polished and outnumber unpolished watches about 100 to 1.

Your watch is very reasonable priced for its condition, service history, etc. I would tell anyone here to find me one that is as nice as for a comparable price.

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by springer

Matt, I can imagine your frustration and you are not the first one this has happened to here. In the past, I've received several private emails asking for opinions on watches posted for sale and refuse to critique a watch unless something is misrepresented or incorrect in the listing.

What I find ironic is, if someone had purchased this watch and brought it on here for the whole world to see, everyone would be saying how great it is. On the other hand, bring the same watch here for a critique and everyone becomes an "internet expert." To repeat my comment on your watch from my earlier post, I think that the watch offered by you is priced very reasonable considering condition, service history etc.

The problem as I see it, guys read a few threads here, there, and wherever and take everything they read as gospel. From "silver date wheels" to production dates for dials, serial number stampings, warranty papers etc etc, if someone reads an erroneous comment - it is now fact. I respond to many of these erroneous comments, but many times it is lost in translation.

My last comment is about case polishing, and I've said it before and I'll say it again. I see many watches being posted here, and elsewhere, that are claiming to be unpolished originals which are only unpolished originals in the "eyes of the seller" who hyped his watch to the new owner I see many on here lately that aren't even close to being original, unpolished Rolexes. Further, the number of watches with lasered, chamfered lugs to fool unwitting buyers is getting ridiculous.

40-year-old watches do not look new!!!!!!!!!!! Be extra cautious of any vintage watch claiming to be unpolished. Properly serviced watches were polished and outnumber unpolished watches about 100 to 1.

Your watch is very reasonable priced for condition, service etc. I would tell anyone here to find me one as nice as yours for the same price.

Thanks Springer, couldn't of said it any better....it will move, its the fact I sat a whole weekend on it after a fellow "watch guy" gave his word.

His loss.

M

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by r4gs

A 93150 commands roughly similar prices to a 9315

certainly not in Europe where a 9315 with correct end links has almost two times ( or even more ) the value of a 93150 .....but far more difficult to find in good conditions...
in any case most subs/sd born with a folded bracelet now have the 93150 ( maybe 80 % ?? ) so this is not a relevant problem.

[Beaumont Miller II]

Its a Mark VI dial.

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II

Its a Mark VI dial.

This is true. It is Mark VI.

M

[r4gs]

Thanks for the clarification Marcello. Agree that 93150 or 9315 is not a big issue and prices can vary substantially depending on where we live in the world.

Matt - I'm sorry you feel offended. Sincerely, I was offering my opinion to a fellow TRF member who was asking for advice and had no intention of derailing any potential sale. This was purely based off the pictures provided and I may have been mistaken in any analyses made.