Stop the press MK1 Red Sub on eBay

[Spunga]

http://bit.ly/18SpztC

(http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/vie...d=231001233971)

One for Brian to dribble and foam at the mouth over.

[dysondiver]

wow , crisp looking.

[Vincent65]

no minute ticks - think this has come up before

[GeoGio Greece]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

no minute ticks - think this has come up before

Good eye, I did not notice

[crowncollection]

a nice example


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[azguy]

Yeah, what's up with the no minute ticks...

[Pete17]

A so-called "prototype" with a 69 caseback. Standard meters first models were in full production mode in 69. I would expect a prototype to have a 66 or 67 caseback.

This has appeared before for sale.

Run away from this one.

[swish77]

Well, it's got Rolex service papers _ or so the listing says. Assuming that the service papers are legit, wouldn't that at least indicate that the watch is also legit? I don't know enough to know if the watch is 100 percent authentic, but I wouldn't write it off purely based on a caseback year. Those can get swapped, and there were also seemingly mismatched backs coming from the factory, 5513 backs on 5512s, for example, and backs that sometimes have years that don't fit neatly into our serial number guides. Either way, that's a ton o' money.

[landroverking]

Nice

[Pete17]

Originally Posted by swish77

Well, it's got Rolex service papers _ or so the listing says. Assuming that the service papers are legit, wouldn't that at least indicate that the watch is also legit? I don't know enough to know if the watch is 100 percent authentic, but I wouldn't write it off purely based on a caseback year. Those can get swapped, and there were also seemingly mismatched backs coming from the factory, 5513 backs on 5512s, for example, and backs that sometimes have years that don't fit neatly into our serial number guides. Either way, that's a ton o' money.

I would not touch this particular watch with a barge pole.

[marcello pisani]

1) a case in the 2.1 range has been certainly produced around the middle of 1969.
2) the very few 1680 seen with case in the 2.09 and 2.1 range had a case back punched " II-69 ".
in my opinion you will never see a 1680 with a back punched " 66 " or " 67 ".
3) due to the terrific quality of the pictures I won't give any advice about the watch.
here is an example of a case back for 1680 signed " II-69 " that you can find also in watches with case in the 2.2 range :




this watch had a dark-brown dial and supeflat indexes ....

[skprd13]

It is called an HP printer and copier machine. Anyone can fake a piece of paper. However I am no expert just seems strange no minute marks! Like Dad used to say "buyer beware"!
Insert looks different, not well made.
Good luck from Kauai.

Tom

[Spunga]

There seems to have been a recent revision on the issue of what is a MK1 is and there are I believe to be 3 variants of a MK1, this (the non minute marker dial) being one.

The no minute track version doesn't appear, for example in Mondani Submariner Story maybe due to it not being a retail watch so doesn't feature in the normal chronological order of watches produced, but it does feature in the collectors section (not this particular watch).

I'm not sure how, for example, if the watch is taken to Rolex for service how they, and they do at my RSC, verify the dial. How does a project dial get verified? Are they in the database? I don't know.

[Robbyvm]

here's my 2.09mlj MK red with II '69 caseback

I must say i'm a little sceptic about this "no index" dial...but... it could be legit...

[Spunga]

If, on the 'Garantie De Service' card where it stipulates 'Numero De Serie' as the serial number as being 2168xxx , then the case is way to late. (IMO)



Shame.

:-(

[marcello pisani]

I don't understand what you mean with this sentence :

Originally Posted by Spunga

If, on the 'Garantie De Service' card where it stipulates 'Numero De Serie' as the serial number as being 2168xxx , then the case is way to late. (IMO)

[Spunga]

Yeah, sorry, the serial could be a MK1 case but to have a project dial in it I would expect it to be around 2.09 and lower as is yours.

2.1 seems high for a project watch.

Not much in it, but the project doesn't normally be sequentially serialised after production issue.

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Spunga

Yeah, sorry, the serial could be a MK1 case but to have a project dial in it I would expect it to be around 2.09 and lower as is yours.

2.1 seems high for a project watch.

Not much in it, but the project doesn't normally be sequentially serialised after production issue.

so I agree and think that the dial is genuine but the watch is not a prototype !
just a very early sub with a rare dial : about the missing minute track .. far bigger pics would be necessary to check if the dial has been " washed " or born in that way.

[Spunga]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

so I agree and think that the dial is genuine but the watch is not a prototype !
just a very early sub with a rare dial : about the missing minute track .. far bigger pics would be necessary to check if the dial has been " washed " or born in that way.

I agree. The dial would need to be put under a microscope. The legitimate problem with that is that as soon as you do that you invalidate the service guarantee. A trivial point, but a point nonetheless.

I'm more interested in this watch than the next guy, so I'm not just trying to discount this watch, I'm looking for people to challenge my way of thinking. So any positive or different views to mine is of interest. Having said that, there are people who may say nothing because they also are interested.

At the end if day, knowledge is power and without experienced input from those more in the know, nobody learns and only those at the top of the food chain reap the benefits.

Not sure why I say this but felt it needed saying.

[marcello pisani]

in my opinion means almost nothing and worths almost nothing... LLOOLLLL
in the years I have seen quite scary thing about service guarantees ...

[Pete17]

Me too Marcello. Not all RSC staff know their vintage model history unfortunately. The recent increase in faked "papers" also needs to be considered.

As for the caseback date....I69 is the earliest I've seen. I just expected that any prototype would have an earlier dated caseback.

A lot of issues to be considered with these oddity watches.

Sent from my Droid.

[s4dan]

Bit more info from DRSD - no minute track and 2.1 serial #

http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/w...ntitled-2.html

Curiouser and Curiouser!!

[Spunga]

Hmm, I know, it's tricky.

If you look at http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/watch-info/red-sub/

The section reads...

Mark I (Meters First) 2.07M to 2.2M
Mark II/III (Meters First) 2.2M to 2.45M

Tricky tricky tricky!!!!

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Spunga

Hmm, I know, it's tricky.

If you look at http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/watch-info/red-sub/

The section reads...

Mark I (Meters First) 2.07M to 2.2M
Mark II/III (Meters First) 2.2M to 2.45M

Tricky tricky tricky!!!!

Ed that is one of the closest friends I have in the world of watches .. these info must be taken with a grain of salt ... as we cannot have so much hard limits with these case ranges.
in any case the dial looks original ..compare it with any " long f " you have seen or you have in your records ....

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by trolldich

Fake! 4 sure. Just look at the x of Rolex.

Just looked at my 1972 oyster, x is the same, the slant going down to the right is thicker and the slant going up to the right looks like an italicized I and thinner

[gelroy]

was for sale for roughly half the price in February 2013 on chrono24 - same seller

and here

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=267222