Would like to hear your thoughts...

[Clay]

On "Spider or "Crazed" Dials???

The Gloss dial, 16660, 16800 and 5513's can often be found with these dials...

Are they stable???

Are there any risks that in the future the dial surface will flake off???

Would you buy one???

Thoughts appreciated...

[cruvon]

Do not know much about them Clay but I wouldn't buy a crazed spider dial since it's damage rather than something beautifully aged due to a defect like on a tropical dial. But guess some collectors opinion would differ!

[nsumner]

Agreed. I just see them as damaged dials. Yes, I would be concerned about dial flakes migrating elsewhere in the watch and causing issues.

If it happened to a watch that I already owned, I wouldn't care much but I wouldn't go out of my way to buy one.

[cop414]

I too never understood the appeal of a damaged dial, giving it another name doesn't change the fact that it's damaged. A mule dressed in a tuxedo is still a mule.

[MP5]

The craze early gloss are fine from what I've seen such as on th 5508. On the sapphire model dials I have seen some that seem to look like there was chipping but I haven't seen the pieces. I also wonder about the long term stability and despite what these pristine new watch guys here say spotted, spider, crazed dial can be very beautiful

[Clay]

I appreciate the input.
I am looking at a piece that is stunning.
The matching patina on the hands and dial is to die for.
The pearl has aged and is gorgeous.
The case is the nicest I've seen and completely unpolished.
The only issue is that the dial is crazed.
It can only be seen from the side in certain light.
I'm not sure how I feel about it???
I have been told that there is no issue with the dial flaking but I have no first hand experience to go by.
It looks sooooooooooo nice though!!!

[John in MA]

I'm not a personal fan and would not pay a premium for a watch that had a spider dial.

[joe100]

It's damage pure and simple

[TheDude]

I agree with the final decision to pass, but I disagree that this is substantively different than some more accepted defect based accelerated aging.

The mid-80s dials were awful quality-wise. Most of the ones that are still in watches referenced in the OP have significant issues, and many more have been replaced by Rolex judging by how hard it is to find good original examples of these watches.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[subtona]

Bob ridley may be a good source for the inquiry?

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by Clay

On "Spider or "Crazed" Dials???

The Gloss dial, 16660, 16800 and 5513's can often be found with these dials...

Are they stable???

Are there any risks that in the future the dial surface will flake off???

Would you buy one???

Thoughts appreciated...

I have owned dozens and dozens and dozens of these and have never seen one fall apart yet. What I call the spider dial you are referring to is the very 1st batch of dials that replaced the matte dials in these models. Serial range imho is 8.25ish -8.4 ish. They had a paint issue that caused them to crack They fixed this problem with the paint mixture that caused this rather fast. Are they collectable rare etc? They are rare as it was IMHO for only about a year they were made. Are they collectable? Everything is collectable to somebody. I personally at this stage don't go crazy for them in a collection

Originally Posted by Clay

I appreciate the input.
I am looking at a piece that is stunning.
The matching patina on the hands and dial is to die for.
The pearl has aged and is gorgeous.
The case is the nicest I've seen and completely unpolished.
The only issue is that the dial is crazed.
It can only be seen from the side in certain light.
I'm not sure how I feel about it???
I have been told that there is no issue with the dial flaking but I have no first hand experience to go by.
It looks sooooooooooo nice though!!!

If its this nice and the price is right I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. These dials are very cheap at the moment and you could always find a back up or replacement dial for piece of mind if this is the only issue bothering you. FYI not all cracked as I have seen some that didnt yet.
On the 16750 GMT gloss dial that doesn't say date. This is the 1 known to crack and there are some out there that have not cracked

[Beaumont Miller II]

Clay I have never seen a gloss dial with white gold surrounds that had a flaking issue due to crazing...I believe they are stable. Some of these dials can look pretty cool, and it sounds like you are leaning toward this one and yet are hesitant at the same time. If you're hesitant now, there is the likelihood that others will be hesitant to buy it if down the road you try to sell it. Obviously price is a big factor here. Good luck my friend.

I got some keen insight from a wise man a few years ago when I was concerned about an imperfection on a watch that kept bothering me. He said, and I'm paraphrasing and adding a bit, what draws people to vintage Rolex is that after 30-50 years, no two watches are alike. What separates one Submariner from the next might be the patina or a spot on the dial, the fade of an insert, the cut of a chamfer, or the shape of the crown guards. This slight difference is like the fingerprint of your watch, something external like the serial number except not hidden by a bracelet that says to the owner, "I'm your watch." The trick is over time to appreciate this fingerprint or birthmark as something that accentuates the beauty of the watch rather than detracting from it.

[Clay]

Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II

Clay I have never seen a gloss dial with white gold surrounds that had a flaking issue due to crazing...I believe they are stable. Some of these dials can look pretty cool, and it sounds like you are leaning toward this one and yet are hesitant at the same time. If you're hesitant now, there is the likelihood that others will be hesitant to buy it if down the road you try to sell it. Obviously price is a big factor here. Good luck my friend.

I got some keen insight from a wise man a few years ago when I was concerned about an imperfection on a watch that kept bothering me. He said, and I'm paraphrasing and adding a bit, what draws people to vintage Rolex is that after 30-50 years, no two watches are alike. What separates one Submariner from the next might be the patina or a spot on the dial, the fade of an insert, the cut of a chamfer, or the shape of the crown guards. This slight difference is like the fingerprint of your watch, something external like the serial number except not hidden by a bracelet that says to the owner, "I'm your watch." The trick is over time to appreciate this fingerprint or birthmark as something that accentuates the beauty of the watch rather than detracting from it.

Well said my friend...

[springer]

Originally Posted by John in MA

I'm not a personal fan and would not pay a premium for a watch that had a spider dial.

X2. The dials cracked due to a defect. It is just marketing hype.

[HL65]

Not a fan myself. Only dial change I love is tropical--pure and even chocolate color change only -- Not water damaged BS that some folks call tropical if you get what I am saying...

PS. Or cream rail Exp II

[lig]

Originally Posted by Clay

Well said my friend...

Agreed. I specifically chose a particular 16760 for the patina and faded insert...

[Wolfgang427]

Color change on the dial I can live with, cracks on the dial I will pass on.....

[springer]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Not a fan myself. Only dial change I love is tropical--pure and even chocolate color change only -- Not water damaged BS that some folks call tropical if you get what I am saying...

PS. Or cream rail Exp II

Couldn't agree more Ken. If most watchmaker's didn't keep everything, these old, disfigured dials would have been trashed years ago. I call them watch-bin-drawer dials. More and more sun and water damaged dials are now being referred to as tropical, instead of what they really are.

But, as always, there is a buyer for everything.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by springer

Tropical, watch-bin-drawer dials - couldn't have said it better. If most watchmaker's didn't keep everything, these old, disfigured dials would have been trashed years ago. I agree with you here Ken.

There is a buyer for everything.

Truly amazes me John!

[ghfghdfhao]

Thoughts appreciated...

[adt]

Originally Posted by Clay

I appreciate the input.
I am looking at a piece that is stunning.
The matching patina on the hands and dial is to die for.
The pearl has aged and is gorgeous.
The case is the nicest I've seen and completely unpolished.
The only issue is that the dial is crazed.
It can only be seen from the side in certain light.
I'm not sure how I feel about it???
I have been told that there is no issue with the dial flaking but I have no first hand experience to go by.
It looks sooooooooooo nice though!!!

My thoughts are that if damage or defects makes a piece more beautiful and stunning then its worth a premium. Same as patina...patina is aging. If it is even then it is rarer because not all pieces age consistently.

Same goes for browining of dials. Even tropicals deserve the premium because they are rare. If the crazing or spidering makes the dial stunning then its added value and not the same as the regular crazed or spider dials.

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Not a fan myself. Only dial change I love is tropical--pure and even chocolate color change only -- Not water damaged BS that some folks call tropical if you get what I am saying...

PS. Or cream rail Exp II

.... I agree completely !

[cruvon]

And drawing analogies, the same goes with anything else that's vintage I suppose, I am yet to see anyone buy a spider effect cracked vintage car or painting for a premium and collectability, a watch dial shouldn't be any different.

[SPARTAN2161]

Have owned many. Never had a problem with any of them. Just gloss dials aren't my cup of tea so never kept one for my collection

[Frogman4me]

For me I am not a fan of the spider look, but I love tropical!

[drainaps]

Own a triple six with this issue rather by accident. Price made it hard to let go. Adds some personality and does not flake off, but I still see it as a defect, same as a nick to the dial.

Would I pay extra for owning one? No way. I paid less in this case. If you want peace of mind, at the expense of patina matching, glossy Triple Six dials are not difficult or too expensive to come by, and you can have a backup.

[Pete17]

Not a fan of them I'm afraid.
Damaged is a better description than the term spider imho.
Flaking is a distinct possibility too on bad examples.

Not good.

Sent from my Droid.

[Rick-O]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Not a fan myself. Only dial change I love is tropical--pure and even chocolate color change only -- Not water damaged BS that some folks call tropical if you get what I am saying...

PS. Or cream rail Exp II

Spot on Ken! Couldn't agree more

[Vincent65]

defective/damaged

[StaceeJaxx]

Originally Posted by John in MA

I'm not a personal fan and would not pay a premium for a watch that had a spider dial.

I agree. Not a fan.