My anti scamming technique

[lapince]

When I buy a watch from another source than an AD, I have a very simple technique, tell the seller that we will go to an AD of the brand to have it authenticated, usually just after saying this it's the last you will hear of the scammer, disappears into thin air, happened twice already, for a Pam and a sub C, and in case the seller is ok, I do go to the AD, did it for my sub C, my 233, 82 and 28, even though the 82 was from a very reputed company, watches.de, since it's a "shadow case" Panerai, which means no box, no papers, no "Amerigo Vespucci engraving", no edition number (for example G850/1500, but of course a serial number, didn't want to take any chances.

Why take the slightest risk when a deal involves that kind of money? For the 82 and 217 (I bought both the same day but sold the 217, 47mm is way too big for me), I took a train from Paris to Frankfurt, the others I bought in Paris, Rolex authenticated the sub free of charge, same thing in Frankfurt for the Pam's, but for the 28 and 233 in the Paris Panerai shop I paid 150 euros for each.

I almost bought a Pam 36, which was for sale in New york, I was ready to fly there from Paris just for the authentification, but it was sold before I could get the whole summ to buy it.

Come on guys, we are talking about watches that cost thousands of dollars, why take the slightest risk, especially that when you say the magic words "go to an AD for verification and athentification", if the seller is a scammer, you won't hear from him again…

I consider my "technique" to be 100% accurate…

Also when buying or selling anything on the net, apart from watches, I have 2 bank accounts, one "normal", and one where I can't go under than 0 dollars, if any transaction, is above the summ that I have on my account the bank refuses it, so whenever buying on the net, or selling on the net, I always use this account, for example if I buy something for 2000$, I transfer 2000$ from my normal account to the special one, and if I sold something and received money I immediately transfer the funds back to my "normal" account…

If any buyer or seller tries to use my account info to empty my account well tough luck, just won't work...

[Furbo]

You posted that like 4 times already even in threads where it's not really helpful..

[dysondiver]

the ideas a good one , but a flight to the states wrecks a bargain on a watch ,,,,

[bayerische]

While I agree with the OP, but this isn't something of a revolutionary way of doing watch business.

Buying online is perfectly safe with a KNOWN and TRUSTED seller.

Flight and hotel to NYC to pick up a watch? Minimum 1500 euro.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Furbo

You posted that like 4 times already even in threads where it's not really helpful..

This

[HL65]

I have a technique that is 100% accurate and far easier....When I don't buy from an AD I buy from one of the top, most reputable, and honorable gentlemen sellers here who I have known for years and trust 1000%!!! It works every time too and way more convenient than your technique!

3 times posted since I removed one.

[lapince]

Well since the watch (036) was 22.500 euros, paying 1500 on top to be 100% sure that you get a real one is worth it in my eyes. And since it's so easy not to get scammed why in the "scam" section of this forum are there so many people who have been? Some of them for big sums, like the guy who sent to Romania a 20.000$ watch expecting to get in return 2 watches plus 1000$???

And yes I posted a few times but since I read yesterday posts of people having been scammed in various ways and feeling very sorry for them and understanding how horrible it might be, I wanted the most possible amount of people to read this, sorry if I sinned out of good will

About buying from the most honorable and reputed people on forums, that's fine, except not long ago I also read a thread about a guy who had been buying selling expensives watches for years, without any problem, great reputation on forums, until one day he started to scam a number of people, don't know the reason, maybe drug addiction or other, most people are honest when everything is ok, but tend to become dishonest when they have money problems. So maybe I am too cautious but for me buying online from a reputable seller there is always a risk even if it's try small.

Also the pam's I bought in frankfurt, 217 and 82 are rare models, it's not like if there's many out there, the company is very reputable also, but once again who knows if they don't have serious money problems and the owner wants to make some money before disappearing? Wouldn't be the first time this kind of things happen. Anyways as I said just wanted to advise people on extreme caution, and from most of your answers no one does what I say and you can be very well victims of a scam yourselves one day, personally it breaks my heart when a guy tells a story of how he got scammed out of thousands of dollars or sent his precious watch and got nothing in return...

[lapince]

The problem with buying from reputable members on a forum, maybe on 10.000 times there will be only 5 scams, because the guy has serious problems, so of course the risk is very low, but if you're part of the 5, wouldn't you wish you'd have done otherwise?

I am 42 and have seen, read or heard about incredible scams, how about Bernie Madoff, one of the most "honorable and reputable" guys in Wall street at the time, president of the new technologies stock exchange (don't remember the name), anyone remembers where he is now and what happened to people who trusted him with their cash? :bang head:

[padi56]

Originally Posted by lapince

When I buy a watch from another source than an AD, I have a very simple technique, tell the seller that we will go to an AD of the brand to have it authenticated, usually just after saying this it's the last you will hear of the scammer, disappears into thin air, happened twice already, for a Pam and a sub C, and in case the seller is ok, I do go to the AD, did it for my sub C, my 233, 82 and 28, even though the 82 was from a very reputed company, watches.de, since it's a "shadow case" Panerai, which means no box, no papers, no "Amerigo Vespucci engraving", no edition number (for example G850/1500, but of course a serial number, didn't want to take any chances.

Why take the slightest risk when a deal involves that kind of money? For the 82 and 217 (I bought both the same day but sold the 217, 47mm is way too big for me), I took a train from Paris to Frankfurt, the others I bought in Paris, Rolex authenticated the sub free of charge, same thing in Frankfurt for the Pam's, but for the 28 and 233 in the Paris Panerai shop I paid 150 euros for each.

I almost bought a Pam 36, which was for sale in New york, I was ready to fly there from Paris just for the authentification, but it was sold before I could get the whole summ to buy it.

Come on guys, we are talking about watches that cost thousands of dollars, why take the slightest risk, especially that when you say the magic words "go to an AD for verification and athentification", if the seller is a scammer, you won't hear from him again…

I consider my "technique" to be 100% accurate…

Also when buying or selling anything on the net, apart from watches, I have 2 bank accounts, one "normal", and one where I can't go under than 0 dollars, if any transaction, is above the summ that I have on my account the bank refuses it, so whenever buying on the net, or selling on the net, I always use this account, for example if I buy something for 2000$, I transfer 2000$ from my normal account to the special one, and if I sold something and received money I immediately transfer the funds back to my "normal" account…

If any buyer or seller tries to use my account info to empty my account well tough luck, just won't work...

Today there are a few ADs that could not authentic there own left hand from the right.Yes there will always be scams but do your home work correctly then scams rarely happen.Over the years bought more watches than I can remember and only one from a official AD and that a insurance replacement.Speaking for myself I have never been scammed, at the end of the day we must trust someone, you can keep the AD experience I will buy from the sellers I know and trust.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by padi56

Today there are a few ADs that could not authentic there own left hand from the right.Yes there will always be scams but do your home work correctly then scams rarely happen.Over the years bought more watches than I can remember and only one from a official AD and that a insurance replacement.Speaking for myself I have never been scammed, at the end of the day we must trust someone, you can keep the AD experience I will buy from the sellers I know and trust.

Exactly....I have bought hundreds of watches and have never been scammed! The few times you see people here scammed it is always the same reason: Dealing with someone with little feedback or long history here. The last person was here for 1 year and had only 6 feedbacks left and people sent him money and watches from US to Romania. If you do your homework and buy the best of the best and do not try to shop price but stick to market price you will be fine 100% of the time. If that doesn't work just stick to AD's. If I had to go to the lengths you describe in your technique I would never buy a watch as long as I live! Just saying....

[Vincent65]

whatever works for you, but going to an AD to authenticate is not a new concept - good method/deterrent though.

[Baco Noir]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

whatever works for you, but going to an AD to authenticate is not a new concept - good method/deterrent though.

AND in many cases in the US an AD will not authenticate a watch. They would require sending it to an RCS and even some of them will not do that unless you send it in under the guise of wanting a service quote.

[socalwatchcollector]

Originally Posted by monbk

this

x2

[socalwatchcollector]

You posted that like 4 times already even in threads where it's not really helpful..

X2

[crowncollection]

I agree with Padi, I do not trust AD's to authenticate older watches. I personally think they are useless at authenticating. Just my opinion.


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[kooltzar]

All they can do is check serial engraving and maybe open the watch to check movement.

Still, proposing a face to face deal at an AD is still a good if not the best test to check out whether a seller is a scammer.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Exactly....I have bought hundreds of watches and have never been scammed! The few times you see people here scammed it is always the same reason: Dealing with someone with little feedback or long history here. The last person was here for 1 year and had only 6 feedbacks left and people sent him money and watches from US to Romania. If you do your homework and buy the best of the best and do not try to shop price but stick to market price you will be fine 100% of the time. If that doesn't work just stick to AD's. If I had to go to the lengths you describe in your technique I would never buy a watch as long as I live! Just saying....

Of course don't want to say bad things about this poor guy who sent his watch to Romania because I feel really sorry for him, but how the hell could he have done such a thing, I mean we are talking about a 20.000$ watch and about Romania here…

Of course you need to go to an AD which has a good "horloger" don't know the exact term in english, maybe watchmaker, as they don't all have one, and some aren't very good but it's very easy to get to know which shop has a good one, of course I live in Paris so there are a few Panerai AD's.

Especially as I said before in I guess 99,99% of the time just saying to the seller that you want to go to an AD for authentication will do the job and if it's a scam you won't hear from the scammer after that.

Steelerfan65, sure but like I already said it's not because a guy has been selling watches for 20 years without problems that you're sure not to have any, my example still stands, Bernard Madoff, one of the most "reputable and honorable" people in Wall street at the time, well you all know how the story ends…

If most of you are fine with buying from a guy on a forum they know and trust that's ok, but some "beginners" or naïve people won't have the experience and knowledge as you and will get scammed, so this is more a thread for people who haven't your experience in the second hand watch market.

[jolimont]

Originally Posted by Furbo

You posted that like 4 times already even in threads where it's not really helpful..

X100000

We are here to help each other, its easy being a monday morning quarterback

[Mosco]

what you fail to see is that - guess what - the bad guys are reading this too. I am sure they are figuring out a way against your 'fail-proof anti-scamming technique' as we speak, if they haven't already.

[lapince]

I know everyone is reading this, apparently for most it's not a problem to buy a watch fror a guy they don't know, just as long as he has a good reputation, as long as people will do this the "scam" section will continue to be filled...