Panerai Discontinued Models...

[Ryuden]

Panerai announced in this year SIHH 2014 that they are discontinuing some modes from their line up...


The selected models are...


Pam 114
Pam 176
Pam 219
Pam 113
Pam 177
Pam 439
Pam 504
Pam 505
Pam 299
Pam 25
Pam 297
Pam 241
Pam 244
Pam 270
Pam 275
Pam 289



Panerai are moving towards phasing out their Eta movt to the newer in house movt with upgraded power reserve.


Pam 114 to Pam 561
Pam 176 to Pam 562
Pam 113 to Pam 563
Pam 177 to Pam 564

Pam 219 I believe is being 'replaced' by Pam 557 with upgraded casing from 44 luminor to 47 1950 casing as the only destro base offered by Panerai.

Pam 299 has the current in house Pam 328 as the 'replacement' I guess.

Interestingly , they discon Pam 25 Ti Submersible without any 'replacement' unless the Pam 305 is the successor , just like the 219 vs 557. After all , the 305 seems to be quite a popular Ti sub , well received compared to the 25.

There you have it. Newer and more $ for Richemont.

Cheers.

[Travelller]

Thx for the info / pairing

[bry]

Cheers for the information

[Cru Jones]

Thanks for the info.

504 and 505 discontinued?? Didn't expect that....Does this mean OP wasn't actually able to perfect the composite material?

[terrywoods]

Reckon the logo 000/005 will gone next year and replaced with in house movements at a higher price point.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by terrywoods

Reckon the logo 000/005 will gone next year and replaced with in house movements at a higher price point.

i read somewhere recently that all ETA-based models would be phased out by 2017.

once the 000/005 are gone, the only ones left will be the automatic Luminor Marinas. i have no idea if they will be replaced or just discontinued. my guess is that they will simply disappear and the 392/532 line will take their place, meaning, if you want a crown guard and date, you'll need to go 42 or 1950s case 44.

[Ryuden]

Taken from Wiki :-

"Cartel investigation[edit]

In 2003 the Swiss Competition Commission launched an investigation into the business practices of ETA SA after Nicholas Hayek, then chairman of ETA parent The Swatch Group Ltd., announced in 2002 that ETA would shortly stop supplying ébauches (partial watch movements) to companies outside The Swatch Group. Competitors complained that this would effectively put them out of business. Hayek countered that Swiss watch making companies must begin to invest in their own movement-making capabilities because it was detrimental to the long term health of the Swiss watchmaking industry to rely on one supplier, ETA, for the bulk of ébauche and parts production. The Swiss Competition Commission ordered ETA to continue supplying ébauches to companies outside The Swatch Group during the investigation.[12]


In 2005 the Swiss Competition Commission concluded its investigation and ordered ETA to continue delivering ébauches and parts at the then current levels until 2008, after which ETA was allowed to gradually reduce deliveries until 2010. The Commission had found that for ébauches in the price range up to US$256, there were no real alternatives and ETA's decision to stop deliveries was a breach of Swiss law pertaining to cartels.[12]


Although the 2005 decision has spurred some watchmakers to invest in the personnel and equipment necessary to produce movements in-house, heavy reliance on ETA continues to the present day. The original finding has been extended, with the Swiss Competition Commission ordering in July 2012 that based on 2010 supply levels, ETA may reduce the level of supplied movements by 30 percent in 2014-2015, 50 percent in 2016-2017 and by 70 percent by 2018-2019. The number of Nivarox products that must be offered will be reduced gradually, dropping by 70 percent by the year 2023. ETA hopes to eventually reach a market position where they are allowed to freely choose to supply or not to supply parts and ébauches to competitors based solely on ETA's discretion.[13]"

"Hayek said Swatch would not stop providing for the industry but wanted to reserve the right to choose with whom they worked.
"We do not want to be a supermarket, forced to deliver to everyone whatever they want. The supermarket era is coming to an end," he told the Wall Street Journal."



It's still a long way before they ( Swatch Group / Eta ) totally stop and have the rights to choose who they want to supply as its all done gradually. The Swiss would also want to protect the watch making industries which they are well known for and wouldn't want one single big organization monopolizing the trade.

On Panerai's part , Panerai are already taking actions even before Swatch Group are allow to totally stop providing Eta movt out of the Swatch Group. Thus the introduction of various in house movt.

Manual Winding :-

P999
P3000
P3001
P3002
P2002
P2004
P2005 , 2005G , 2005S
P2006
P5000

Automatic :-

P9000
P9001
P9002
P2003
P9100 , 9100R

Looking at the number of in house movts, Panerai are already putting into actions to phase out their Eta movt models by slowly putting in place the newer in house models into the market.

But to really answer your question when will Panerai phase out their Eta, only Bonati and his horsemen will know the answer.

For now , buyers can enjoy the option to purchased the

More affordable , reliable , easily serviceable , proven workhorse Eta movt models ,

or

Slightly more 'high end' , exclusively Panerai , and yet to pass the test of time , newer in house movt models.

Well , when it comes to Pams , we are definitely sure to be spoilt for choices.

Cheers.

[Ryuden]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Thanks for the info.

504 and 505 discontinued?? Didn't expect that....Does this mean OP wasn't actually able to perfect the composite material?

Hey Jones,

Saw your post on the other forum...

Well , those models are just another models Panerai produces and from the look of it , it doesn't seems to be well received due to the 339 issues previously...

It's still unknown for sure if the reason was because they just couldn't prefect it but my guess is , not really a popular models...

Cheers.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Ryuden

Hey Jones,

Saw your post on the other forum...

Well , those models are just another models Panerai produces and from the look of it , it doesn't seems to be well received due to the 339 issues previously...

It's still unknown for sure if the reason was because they just couldn't prefect it but my guess is , not really a popular models...

Cheers.

yes, it could just be weak sales, but, if that's the case, they didn't give them much of a chance and OP surely lost some $$$ developing those models.

[mercury66]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

yes, it could just be weak sales, but, if that's the case, they didn't give them much of a chance and OP surely lost some $$$ developing those models.

What do you think this will do for existing 504 and 505 prices? I have a 504 and am quite happy with it.


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[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by mercury66

What do you think this will do for existing 504 and 505 prices? I have a 504 and am quite happy with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

well, they've now gone from regular production to LE, so, assuming they were, in fact, not very popular models, the discontinuation should help stablize falling prices (and maybe even (crossed fingers) result in an eventual rise).

more importantly, i think it's a cool watch, and i'm glad you are enjoying yours.

[thsiao]

I wonder why Panerai didn't make the reference numbers easier for everyone... Like if they are replacing the 113 for the 563, why not call it 513. The 176 would now be 576. Just easier for everyone that is already familiar with the base references. Just so arbitrary how they name them.

[Ryuden]

Originally Posted by thsiao

I wonder why Panerai didn't make the reference numbers easier for everyone... Like if they are replacing the 113 for the 563, why not call it 513. The 176 would now be 576. Just easier for everyone that is already familiar with the base references. Just so arbitrary how they name them.

They can't because that model no is already used up. For instance. the 513 is actually a gold 1940 casing radiomir.

Panerai numbered their pieces accordingly. meaning, once a model is created,it will take over the very next available number following its sequence. unless that particular number has been reserved for a certain models not released yet. if not , their model numbers are running numbers numbered according to sequence.

cheers.

[subtona]

So the 000 lives on, perhaps the destiny of Panerai's very last ETA movment?

[Ryuden]

Originally Posted by subtona

So the 000 lives on, perhaps the destiny of Panerai's very last ETA movment?

Perhaps...

Was expecting it to be the first to go since the 47 version of the 1950 Base is out (372) and now with the newer 44 version of the Luminor Base (560)...and the Zero still lives...

Maybe because its the only Base with the OP logo...Even the fiver (005) is still around...though not sure until when the Eta will be fully discon.

Cheers.

[Ryuden]

Originally Posted by mercury66

What do you think this will do for existing 504 and 505 prices? I have a 504 and am quite happy with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

well, they've now gone from regular production to LE, so, assuming they were, in fact, not very popular models, the discontinuation should help stablize falling prices (and maybe even (crossed fingers) result in an eventual rise).

more importantly, i think it's a cool watch, and i'm glad you are enjoying yours.

Both are cool piece and its a beauty in person...I handled both and I think they are awesome and the only reason I didn't get them was because I am not a radiomir fan...

And being discon means that they are now a limited series (O series if I am not wrong) (all Panerais are Limited Production) but not Special Editions...Prices for these 2 could appreciate if the right buyer wants it...but base on the very first composite Pam, the 339, value have depreciates a bit considering its a Special Edition...

It's good that you enjoy what you buy...

Cheers.

[Cabaiguan]

I can't keep up with all these numbers...

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Ryuden

Perhaps...

Was expecting it to be the first to go since the 47 version of the 1950 Base is out (372) and now with the newer 44 version of the Luminor Base (560)...and the Zero still lives...

Maybe because its the only Base with the OP logo...Even the fiver (005) is still around...though not sure until when the Eta will be fully discon.

Cheers.

Perhaps 000 makes sense to die last because of its solid caseback...ETA movement in 000 will fly under the radar as the rest of the line changes over?
Panerai's way of using it yet disowning it at the same time?

[Ryuden]

Originally Posted by subtona

Perhaps 000 makes sense to die last because of its solid caseback...ETA will fly under the radar as the rest of the line changes over?

Maybe...? It makes sense...

But with Panerai...there's always surprises...

Guess we have to wait and see...

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by subtona

Perhaps 000 makes sense to die last because of its solid caseback...ETA movement in 000 will fly under the radar as the rest of the line changes over?
Panerai's way of using it yet disowning it at the same time?

well, 005 and all the automatic ETA-based luminors (104, 164, etc.) have solid casebacks.

while all ETAs are supposed to be phased out (by 2017?), i wouldn't be surprised if the two logos (000 and 005) are the last two standing.

[kaiserphoenix]

Does it mean as of January 2014 they are no longer making these? Or that they will make it for the remainder of 2014? What do you all anticipate will happen to the value of the ETA based BASE?

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

What do you all anticipate will happen to the value of the ETA based BASE?

By "ETA based BASE", do you mean 000/112/176?

[hotsauz]

How about 111? I didn't see it mentioning. Sorry if I have missed any related info.


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[sebastien1975]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Thanks for the info.

504 and 505 discontinued?? Didn't expect that....Does this mean OP wasn't actually able to perfect the composite material?

532 seems to replace 504, even though this is a special edition (500 pieces).
Panerai produced 1500 PAM504 yearly; But I still see 504s available at boutiques and ADs. So I don't think this was a big success.
I suspect Panerai will continue producing Composite pieces through special editions only.

[LASkywalker]

Thanks for sharing :)

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by sebastien1975

532 seems to replace 504, even though this is a special edition (500 pieces).
Panerai produced 1500 PAM504 yearly; But I still see 504s available at boutiques and ADs. So I don't think this was a big success.
I suspect Panerai will continue producing Composite pieces through special editions only.

532 is steel with a DLC coating, not composite (aluminum with a hardened surface treatment).

[sebastien1975]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

532 is steel with a DLC coating, not composite (aluminum with a hardened surface treatment).

Thanks for correcting me.
Glad I bought my 504 then

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by sebastien1975

Thanks for correcting me.
Glad I bought my 504 then

504 is a seriously good looking piece.

[lapince]

Too bad for the 177, I prefer the look of the ETA than the look of the P5000, some in house movements are nice looking but many not really, it's of course not the most important but for me it counts...

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

By "ETA based BASE", do you mean 000/112/176?

Yeah exactly, or 176, etc also.