3185 vs. 3186 movement, whats the big deal?

[BillA]

If you have for example a GMT II 16710, no wiggle, what does it matter if you have the 3185 or 3186 movement?
You will have to open the case back to find out. Is it worth it? Will the watchmaker reseal like Rolex does at the factory?
If one is so excited about the 3186 then why not put a clear caseback on the back of the watch and keep looking at it? Otherwise you never know it is there. I just don't get it.

[colemanitis]

I think it all comes down to collectibility.

[BillA]

Jeff, I think us mortals will never know how many have the 3186. Rolex does not tell.
so, will it be a collectible item? Don't know.

[2careless]

Cool. Let's come back in 30 years' time and discuss again

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by BillA

If you have for example a GMT II 16710, no wiggle, (...)

Sorry, but I've seen this expression "no wiggle" at couple of times here lately. What does it mean?

If it's NSFW, PM me!

[BiG JeEzY]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

Sorry, but I've seen this expression "no wiggle" at couple of times here lately. What does it mean?

If it's NSFW, PM me!

Hey Bo, the wiggle test can be performed when you adjust the time on the GMT and Explorer models. When you "jump" the hour hand back and forth one hour, does the red 24 hour hand "wiggle" or slightly move as a result? An Explorer or GMT that does not have the "wiggle" might likely have the 3186 caliber beating inside. An explanation can be found here and the links on the page.

Please click...
http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=3599150&rid=0

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Wiggling my tail for that, Jerome!

[BiG JeEzY]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

Wiggling my tail for that, Jerome!

Also Bo, watch this video if you have not yet.

It shows the Explorer II being adjusted by jumping the hour hand. Note how still the 24 hour hand is. It does not move at all. Mines does not do that but twitches a little bit and therefore indicates I have a 3185 inside mines. However, the guy in the video has one with a 3186.

Click:
http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/j...=080308028.flv

[Attila]

After learning what the difference is between the movements I believe that it could be a possibility but I'm not expert/fortune teller.

[acce1999]

Just to be clear about this. It is my Explorer. I have NOT popped it open to verify if it has a 3186 or 3185. It is not that important for me. It is an example of "non wiggle behaviour" (so most certainly it has the 3186 - which one of the Rolex watch makers at the AD where I bought it is convinced it has...) Still. It is not 100% confirmed that my specific watch has the 3186...

Best,

A

[BiG JeEzY]

Originally Posted by acce1999

Just to be clear about this. It is my Explorer. I have NOT popped it open to verify if it has a 3186 or 3185. It is not that important for me. It is an example of "non wiggle behaviour" (so most certainly it has the 3186 - which one of the Rolex watch makers at the AD where I bought it is convinced it has...) Still. It is not 100% confirmed that my specific watch has the 3186...

Best,

A

Hi there, wow its great to see that the person on that video is in this forum as well. My apologies though, I meant to ask for your permission to borrow the video before posting it like that.

So just a quick question, how sure are you that your Explorer has the 3186? About 90% or so?

Best regards,
Jerome

[2careless]

Another wiggle test clip on my GMT2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOx7bPguZgI
Definitely going to RSC to pop it open to check. It's difficult for me as they don't open on Saturdays and my office is like 1 hour drive from the city.

[BiG JeEzY]

Originally Posted by 2careless

Another wiggle test clip on my GMT2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOx7bPguZgI
Definitely going to RSC to pop it open to check. It's difficult for me as they don't open on Saturdays and my office is like 1 hour drive from the city.

I'm about 90 percent sure that your new watch has the 3186 Kai. That is a beautiful Pepsi GMT by the way!

Another way to try and confirm is to try the "wiggle test" on a ceramic GMT as well which we know for certain has the 3186. If the results are the same, then I believe that is proof to say your GMT has the new movement too.

[buz-lh]

I like wiggle! Just not in my watches.

[walds11]

Bill, no big deal in my opinion. I can't believe how some people totally obsess over this. I am hearing that people asking others to crack open their 16710s to see of they have the 3186 movement. It boggles my mind.

[BillA]

Well, I just did the "wiggle test" on my 1670 Pepsi, Z7xxxxx serial number, and no wiggle. I think I am definitely going to take it down to the AD, have them crack open the back, if there is a 3186 in there I am going to order a clear caseback, and wear the watch upside down so I can see the 3186 movement all the time. Hey, when you have the 3186 movement, who needs to look at the time and date anyway?

[acce1999]

No problems! ;-) The clip is public.

I am as good as 100% certain (OK 99,999...) that my Explorer II (M-serial) has the 3186, since I have been looking into the issue of 3186s in Explorer IIs and GMT 16710s for a while. The Watchmaker doing service on my watches was also certain, but said that to be 100% we need to pop it open. Actually the 3185 has not been in production for a while now, and he was educated in Switzerland to do service on 3186s last year. His first reply when I asked if my ExII was equipped 3186 was. "The Explorer II has been delivered for a while with 3186 now, but to be certain yours have it we need to open it up."

As we all know there are no definite answers from Rolex when they started to roll out 3186 in Ex II, and I guess it relates to how they produce their watches. As long as they have parts in stock (or are bound by sourcing contracts) they deliver "old" items in parallel with "new" items. Take for example the older style oyster bracelets. Why do they still equip some models with them, when they have production capacity for the newer models - and they fit... It is sourcing (bracelets or parts of bracelets are produced by other companies and there is a contract running)... You have a similar situation with cars when a new model is rolled out. During a period the old as well as the new is available.

In my opinion there is NO difference between 3185 and 3186 when it comes to longevity or durability. The main difference is not the solution for setting the 12 h hand, but rather the use of the Parachrome Bleu balance spring, which is less sensitive to magnetism, and produced inhouse. This said, the old one (Nivarox) could actually be better... Nivarox is a patented alloy, and if it is a business strategy of Rolex not to source from other producers they might have to "settle" for other solutions. And of course they will argue that Parachrome Bleu is better... and it might be. I am not skilled enough to know.

All in all it is interesting to follow this issue, and I am looking forward to the first pictures of a popped-open Explorer II with a 3186.

Here it is again, with its smaller sibling:



Best,

A

P.S. I've been around several watch forums since the mid 90's but I seldom post.

[sherwin]

interesting... another thing to look out for.

[Beef]

Thank all of you for this info. I have been trying to figure out what the wiggle test was. Not wanting to appear any stupider than usual, I decided to wait and let someone else ask. Fortunately, "Big Brother" Bo stepped up to plate. Thanks for sharing your video and research, ACCE 1999. Yours, also, 2Careless.

[Scarface]

Ok, guys ... I 'll do the wiggle test on Monday when I get in my hands my new M-series GMT (Pepsi).
I am curious myself - being an M-Series there is a chance that it has the 3186

[sheldonsmith]

Be sure to post picts.... I have more info on this Rolex anomaly at http://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.htm

[f16570]

Is the Parachrom spring not supposed to make the watch far more accurate?
Is this not the big issue?

[Incurable]

I just did the test on my GMT and the 24hr hand WIGGLED!!! Darned, now I have to go out and sell my GMT II at a loss and replace it w/an M version... NOT!

[Felly Jr.]

Originally Posted by Incurable

I just did the test on my GMT and the 24hr hand WIGGLED!!! Darned, now I have to go out and sell my GMT II at a loss and replace it w/an M version... NOT!

Mine wiggles too!

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by f16570

Is the Parachrom spring not supposed to make the watch far more accurate?
Is this not the big issue?

Yes, that plus an alleged tenfold resistance to shocks compared to the Breguet overcoil hairspring plus virtually anti-magnetic.

[kenlperry]

Originally Posted by acce1999

No problems! ;-) The clip is public.

I am as good as 100% certain (OK 99,999...) that my Explorer II (M-serial) has the 3186, since I have been looking into the issue of 3186s in Explorer IIs and GMT 16710s for a while. The Watchmaker doing service on my watches was also certain, but said that to be 100% we need to pop it open. Actually the 3185 has not been in production for a while now, and he was educated in Switzerland to do service on 3186s last year. His first reply when I asked if my ExII was equipped 3186 was. "The Explorer II has been delivered for a while with 3186 now, but to be certain yours have it we need to open it up."

As we all know there are no definite answers from Rolex when they started to roll out 3186 in Ex II, and I guess it relates to how they produce their watches. As long as they have parts in stock (or are bound by sourcing contracts) they deliver "old" items in parallel with "new" items. Take for example the older style oyster bracelets. Why do they still equip some models with them, when they have production capacity for the newer models - and they fit... It is sourcing (bracelets or parts of bracelets are produced by other companies and there is a contract running)... You have a similar situation with cars when a new model is rolled out. During a period the old as well as the new is available.

In my opinion there is NO difference between 3185 and 3186 when it comes to longevity or durability. The main difference is not the solution for setting the 12 h hand, but rather the use of the Parachrome Bleu balance spring, which is less sensitive to magnetism, and produced inhouse. This said, the old one (Nivarox) could actually be better... Nivarox is a patented alloy, and if it is a business strategy of Rolex not to source from other producers they might have to "settle" for other solutions. And of course they will argue that Parachrome Bleu is better... and it might be. I am not skilled enough to know.

All in all it is interesting to follow this issue, and I am looking forward to the first pictures of a popped-open Explorer II with a 3186.

Here it is again, with its smaller sibling:



Best,

A

P.S. I've been around several watch forums since the mid 90's but I seldom post.

Hey, the Explorer above looks to have the ROLEXROLEX engraved inner ring.. I haven't seen one like that before. Does anyone know when Rolex started doing that on the Explorer?? I went to rolex.com and the ones displayed there don't show it... So my curiousity is getting the best of me.

KP

[acce1999]

M-serials have an engraved flange.

Best,

A

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by acce1999

M-serials have an engraved flange.

Best,

A

No, not all.
I just bough from a Rolex AD one of the last GMT-II (Pepsi), M-series WITHOUT the RolexRolex engravings inside.
I 'll post some pics later on today.

[Trurolexer]

Originally Posted by walds11

Bill, no big deal in my opinion. I can't believe how some people totally obsess over this. I am hearing that people asking others to crack open their 16710s to see of they have the 3186 movement. It boggles my mind.

Ditto.

[kenlperry]

Originally Posted by Scarface

No, not all.
I just bough from a Rolex AD one of the last GMT-II (Pepsi), M-series WITHOUT the RolexRolex engravings inside.
I 'll post some pics later on today.

That's what I was thinking. I'm not trying to call anyone out really, but that one in the pic had me thinking replica when I saw the ROLEXROLEX engraving, especially since it looks black, like the replicas I've seen in downtown D.C.