How do you value Rolex w and wo papers?

[bimmer]

I know that it makes a difference in resale value but other than that, would a Rolex (not vintage) wo papers prevent you from buying one? How much of a difference in price do you think there should be between one w and wo papers?

[applebook]

I personally wouldn't buy a modern Rolex without papers unless it's very good price.

[bimmer]

Yeah but what do u consider as a very good price? Is 10% less than a similar one w papers a very good price?

[McQ]

FWIW, I would not purchase a watch without box/papers unless it was from a very reputable seller and/or a compelling deal.

[redshirt1957]

Bought them with and without and when I am wearing the one with papers; don't seem to have the papers in my pocket to show anybody. Nor, other than us WIS's...who cares.

[karmatp]

I would never buy a watch without proper papers and this is my reason. I personally have a few friends who have had their Rolex's stolen from various places so the possibility of buying a "hot" Rolex is very possible. Wouldn't it be fun to send your Rolex in for a service and then have it confiscated when they run the serial number, it's not worth it at all. 10% is nothing off compared to losing every penny you paid for it to begin with. How many people are wearing someone else's prized possession that was stolen from them????? My neighbor had his Yaughtmaster stolen from his gym locker a couple of months ago, I have stopped into a few pawn shops for him with no success yet, but I'm hopeful to get lucky for him one day. Personally, unless I know the seller and the complete history of the watch, it must have papers.

[bimmer]

karmatp, thanks for the info which is very helpful

[applebook]

Good point, Karmat.

Also, most vintage pieces with original papers are worth substantially more than those without, so someone "cares."

[applebook]

Originally Posted by bimmer

Yeah but what do u consider as a very good price? Is 10% less than a similar one w papers a very good price?

10% sounds about correct. I would pay $4100 for a GMT with papers, but a similar one without would have to be under $3800.

[East Bay Rider]

I wonder if the used (previously loved) Rolexes at my AD all have boxes and papers?
I would consider buying from them as they have a Rolex watchmaker on site, however it would need to be a heck of a deal.

[rescue7]

Good point Karmatp, also without papers I'd suspect it has a good chance of being a knockoff. Always buy from a legit AD, it's cheap insurance.

[Tools]

Papers.. !!!

That makes it sound like a Rolex is some sort of rare pet with a pedigree and registration.

Papers mean nothing, and they "prove" nothing... If you are using paper to authenticate your Rolex, you are headed for a scam.. For that matter, what do you actually mean when you say papers...that single sheet of "warranty" paper that is completely worthless after the sale..

Papers that can be fabricated on practically any decent computer..

On a vintage piece a collector will pay more for one with papers and original boxes, etc....but they are buying a little bit of history....and original papers and boxes on older models are actually a rare occurrence.

For a modern piece at a good price.... give it to me...as a matter of fact, I'll take two thank you very much..

I've got boxes in the closet and after the first service... I've got RSC service paper.

[scottschoe]

Papers aren't a must for me on modern pieces. A RSC Service estimate beats papers any day, but it is nice to have both.

[applebook]

Tools, why I personally value original papers, aside from the financial value on vintage pieces, is that they are irreplaceable. RSC papers are simple to obtain, but the original papers, once misplaced or destroyed, are gone forever.

This is my sentimental thinking.

[rescue7]

My bad, they now issue warranty cards.
Ya anyone can use a photocopier but is the paper the same, is the country code cut out in dot form , does the serial #'s match, Rolex will cross reference the serial #'s when it's in for servicing.
Tools if you care to buy without papers then go ahead, I'm NOT interested in doing such.

[jaston]

I agree with Tools...Papers mean nothing, and they "prove" nothing......

[Tools]

I'm not pointing fingers at anybody...just providing a different perspective.. We shouldn't stick our head in the sand and think that every Rolex buyer/seller is a WIS.

Most watch buyers put the watch on their wrist, and after the warranty period, (or before) are unlikely to even know where that paper went. Not to mention the box.... I have been to many shops where the proud new owner wears the watch out the door leaving the box and stickers behind....What do they need them for.

Also, most AD's will not sell you a used piece with an old warranty card under somebody elses name.

As far as cross referencing, Rolex doesn't cross reference anything. If it's warranty work they look to ensure the warranty is in your name. If it's not warranty, they check their own stolen database and if it's not there, anybody can service a Rolex.

[pwrslider]

Some of mine have papers...some don't..

I would rather have them...but like said before..if the price is good...and I'm going to keep the watch, and not flip it...then who really cares.

ALthough....my Expy II with no papers gets NO respect from the ones that do.

[rescue7]

Can anybody get Rolex parts? and checking their stolen database is that not a form of cross referencing.

[Tools]

I'm not trying to rile anybody up....

TRF is my extended internet family and as such, I want the members to be armed with as much information as possible in this hobby we all enjoy.. We should not be robots nodding our head and blindly patting each other on the back for our wise decisions and excellent taste in watches. (although we do a lot of that too)

Here's how I see it....There are millions of Rolex watches out there..Most of them do not have a box or any paperwork..

The membership should be knowledgable enough to go out in the world and be able to make a good judgement call on that boot sale or flea market piece, or that estate watch to determine if the prodect is likely to be genuine. You should not turn your back on a good deal because somebody threw away an out of date warranty card.

A piece of paper does not prove that the watch you are looking at is authentic. It doesn't even prove the paperwork is authentic.

I have never seen a BNIB or LNIB replica watch that did not come with authentic looking paperwork and a decent box.

I have seen literally dozens....no make that hundreds, of authentic Rolex watches in various states of wear that have nothing but the scratches on their back.

A TRF member ought to know where to look to find the serial number and the model number on the watch they are looking at.. And the real proof is inside the caseback, not on any paper the guy hands you.

[ROLEX MAN]

If possible I'll allways go for papers

[pwrslider]

Originally Posted by Tools

A piece of paper does not prove that the watch you are looking at is authentic. It doesn't even prove the paperwork is authentic.

For me...I wouldn't buy a watch without papers unless it was from an AD or a TRF seller!

[TempoKing]

...I am selling a 2003 Y serial Submariner 16610 in mint condition for $3.750 without the expired (by now) warantee...aka..."paper"
possibly to bimmer.
Does that make my watch ...fake or stollen..????
I am providing an invoice from my business with my name, address and an appraisal for the value, the description, the reference number, the serial number etc etc.
One of you said that there is a good chance that Rolex without papers (by papers we mean the already expired waranty in most cases) could very well be stollen.
If with more than 25 million Rolex in the global streets, the ones without papers are most likely stollen...then I would not drive to work tomorrow because I stand a much better chance to have a car accident than buy a stollen Rolex.

Man...I am repressing some colorfull "epithets" with great difficulty.

[rescue7]

I'm not trying to rile anybody up.... I think you riled yourself up, lighten up.

My point is if someone comes to me and offers to sell me a Rolex watch my first reaction is do you have box and papers( box who really cares, readily available) They say "NO", red flag suddenly appears , I then ask to take the watch to my AD and have it authenticated, if seller says can't do then you know its possiblibly a fake. If it comes back clean then I have a decision to make, do I buy with or without papers.
I know the answer to that question. "NO"

Also I just recently traded up my Sub date , the first question the AD asked "Do you have the box and papers".
Like I said earlier, if you care to buy a Rolex without papers then knock yourself out.
I know opening the caseback will tell if its authentic, but it could be too HOT too wear.

[springer]

The gentlemen who quoted 10% less in price for newer model watches without warranty papers is pretty close to the mark and is a good guide for purchasing a preowned Rolex. A $4100 watch with the original Rolex warranty paper would be valued at $3700 to $3800 without the original Rolex warranty paper.

Those that won't purchase without a warranty paper could miss a good deal on a watch, especially a newer preowned watch where the warranty has expired. Also note that warranty papers are counterfeited as easily as the watches.

Many watch dealers, when they take a Rolex in for trade or resale, do not give the new purchaser the expired warranty paper because it has no value, it's expired, it's in someone else's name which means nothing to the new buyer. All the buyer knows for sure is:

1) they want to purchase a Rolex
2) what is the guarantee is on the watch

What most jewlers will do though, is give the buyer one of their written guarantees for a specified period of time, usually one year.

This has been my experience here in Dallas and many other cities in the USA where I've lived and shopped.

[walds11]

I want the whole package. That's just me. It also helps to have the full package if I decide to sell the watch down the line.

[Baptistman]

Originally Posted by walds11

I want the whole package. That's just me. It also helps to have the full package if I decide to sell the watch down the line.

x2, I agree the papers do not authenticate anything, maybe provide some history to the piece, however if I'm buying pre-owned, I would always look for a watch as a complete package. That for me means all swing tags, papers, wallets, instruction books everything that it would of had when it left the shop, well maybe minus the plastics. But thats what I require, otherwise I would not part with my cash.

But it in no ways does it say if a watch is authentic or not, that's simply my requirements.

In fact, I think I would prefer a Rolex service voucher rather than the warranty paper or card

[Trurolexer]

Actually, I never do that again. I once bought a Rolex with not original box. I bought a D serial Explorer II with the old box (the green look like rock under water). So I decide to sold it to my Brother, and I bought a new Sub ND COSC. I think that's brilliant decision I made.

[golfball123]

i bought all my rolexes (3 mine n 2 wifey) new fm AD n think i hv papers fr the presidents n the sub. N no boxes left as must hv been thrown away or missing when i moved.

[dopeymuppet]

I personally would never buy a watch without everything coming with it! I'm not even so keen on pre-owned (or pre-enjoyed as I've seen it called in places) but if it had everything with it, I might consider it. I personally like the feeling of coming out the AD with a full set.