Reasonable to Request to See Rolex Internals before Making Online Purchase?

[westsiderkg]

Is it unreasonable to ask, in a long distance online transaction, for the seller (i.e. grey market dealer) to remove the case back (all of 1 minute) on a new watch and send a photo of the Rolex internals if you have already agreed upon a price and are 100% ready to make the purchase upon verification? Sorry if I am asking too much (don't think I am), its just I want to be certain in my mind (regardless of how many good sales a dealer has) before shelling over funds. Am I off base or does this sound reasonable? I am not a risk taker. Thoughts? Is there a better way of going about this?

[Matt748]

Obviously the best way is to go and see it for yourself.
But any self respecting seller should be able to assist you in your request and if they can't and your not comfortable, look elsewhere.
These things are a lot of money and you need to be certain.

[tkerrmd]

Yup I wouldnt

And if you are not a risk taker buy at an AD

[cab56]

There are bad fakes, good fakes, and stunning fakes out there. Rule 1 is buy the seller. Walk away if there are any doubts. With millions of Rolexes out there, you will find the right watch from the right seller with a bit of patience.

My preferences are (1) a local business with a reputation to protect (I have a good relationship with my local AD), (2) TRF trusted sellers, or (3) under special circumstances, an online seller with lots of pictures including the movement (but remember a scammer can steal pictures of a real Rolex and then send you a fake).

In passing, under the right circumstances, I've bought a few watches online, but I've passed on many, many that were outright fakes or just 'not convincing.'

Patience and paying a fair price will work out well. Good luck.

Good luck.

[enghock0220]

I don't think any seller will comply to your request. Once the back case is opened, it needs to go through water proof testing again, let alone taking chances that the back case might get scratched or the movement might be damaged. What happened if you decided to back off from the deal after you saw the movement inside? I think the only time any seller will open the back case is you paid for the item and agreed to the no return or no refund policy.

[CDNWatchNut]

I think its fair to ask, however, I personally wouldn't and would place more importance on buying the seller. I also think its equally fair for a seller to decline the request as the watch would then require re-testing for seal.
As Tom said, an AD is the way to go to avoid risk.

[lmcgbaj]

Buy the seller.

I also would not open the caseback without testing the water resistance afterwards, specially on a new watch.

[fania123]

Never been asked, and never would ask, and yes I think it's a bit unreasonable.

[neilp]

I think the best way to handle this is to ask for a 48 hour return period for any reason. That way you can inspect and if there is a blemish that is not visible on a photograph you can return the watch. You can take the watch to a local AD or trusted jeweler for inspection and authentication. I have done this with three transactions using sellers found via TRF and all agreed. All three watches were exactly as described.

I think this also acts as a good filter - a seller with a watch that they might not be 100% confident in probably would not want to do this - fine with me, I'll move on and find another. In fact one vendor did this with me and while chatting on the phone we decided the watch he had listed was not the right one for me.

[singe89]

New watch...I think the request is unreasonable. I wouldnt want to be the next guy to buy this "NIB" watch should you back out. It could have scratches and water resistance issues after the case back is removed. I want my NIB watch just like it left the factory.

Now if the watch is used some dealers can/will remove the case back and recheck the WR for you.

[Duey]

Buy from a trusted seller here on TRF and you won't have to worry about it.

[watchwatcher]

If you are at this stage of discomfort you need to ask this, you are in the wrong place, IMO. Buy the seller first. Or go to an AD.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by westsiderkg

Is it unreasonable to ask, in a long distance online transaction, for the seller (i.e. grey market dealer) to remove the case back (all of 1 minute) on a new watch and send a photo of the Rolex internals if you have already agreed upon a price and are 100% ready to make the purchase upon verification? Sorry if I am asking too much (don't think I am), its just I want to be certain in my mind (regardless of how many good sales a dealer has) before shelling over funds. Am I off base or does this sound reasonable? I am not a risk taker. Thoughts? Is there a better way of going about this?

fwiw, you're not "100%" ready to make the purchase with the seller you're engaged with. you mention "upon verification". you're close, but not there yet.

the request is not unreasonable prior to an agreement - its an annoyance after the fact. a simple image of a movement is also false comfort for a web buyer. if a seller with fraudulent intent wants to fraud you, they will (speaking as a victim in earlier days). you also have no way of knowing the image is of the watch you intend to buy.

in your situation, i'd go brick over click but a live skype discussion may assure you with the watch displayed and caseback removed.

good luck.

[mike]

It's done a lot in the vintage community, but from a major grey dealer unnecessary. These guys are big for a reason.

As always buy the seller. If you have concerns use an AD.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by westsiderkg

Is it unreasonable to ask, in a long distance online transaction, for the seller (i.e. grey market dealer) to remove the case back (all of 1 minute) on a new watch and send a photo of the Rolex internals if you have already agreed upon a price and are 100% ready to make the purchase upon verification? Sorry if I am asking too much (don't think I am), its just I want to be certain in my mind (regardless of how many good sales a dealer has) before shelling over funds. Am I off base or does this sound reasonable? I am not a risk taker. Thoughts? Is there a better way of going about this?

Myself don't think its a reasonable request for you to ask to get the back off. Now if you was willing to pay to have the back off to have movement certified and re-pressure checked then perhaps yes. And what do a picture of a movement prove, as picture could not be the one in your watch. Pictures are just pictures nothing more, always buy the seller millions of Rolex watches in this world to choose from..

[Welshwatchman]

You are being reasonable to ask the question. You have your concerns. He could, however, send you a "library" photo and give you false solace.

He would also be reasonable in asking you to go take a running jump.

[HogwldFLTR]

What others have said; added expense and risk on the sellers part and meaningless data for the buyer. Buy the seller or have an insurance policy like Paypal and major credit card. You can do the work yourself and pay for testing following receipt of the watch.

[westsiderkg]

All good feedback, thanks everyone! I like the 48 hour return idea best. Not sure who'd I'd trust local to me to verify authenticity however. Many years ago I bought a Rolex online from a trusted seller, but after receiving it (with all papers) I still felt a little uncomfortable. So, I took the watch to 2 local AD's in my area. The AD's looked it over and said they thought it appeared genuine, but couldn't verify w/o opening the back. Interesting, neither AD would open it...even if I paid them to open it since they said it was not purchased from them. So, I still have no problem buying from a online trusted source since when I sold the watch later on (and the next person was able to verify its authenticity), I just really haven't found anyone yet local to me knowledgeable enough, or willing to open and verify the internals and in my mind it makes me feel all the better seeing the inside, only once of course. Personally, wish I never had to open it, but with the millions of fakes floating around I want to feel good about what's on my wrist. AD is probably the best way to go, but they're just too high IMHO. And yes, paypal or cc is a good contingency plan.

[x65975]

Originally Posted by westsiderkg

All good feedback, thanks everyone! I like the 48 hour return idea best. Not sure who'd I'd trust local to me to verify authenticity however. Many years ago I bought a Rolex online from a trusted seller, but after receiving it (with all papers) I still felt a little uncomfortable. So, I took the watch to 2 local AD's in my area. The AD's looked it over and said they thought it appeared genuine, but couldn't verify w/o opening the back. Interesting, neither AD would open it...even if I paid them to open it since they said it was not purchased from them. So, I still have no problem buying from a online trusted source since when I sold the watch later on (and the next person was able to verify its authenticity), I just really haven't found anyone yet local to me knowledgeable enough, or willing to open and verify the internals and in my mind it makes me feel all the better seeing the inside, only once of course. Personally, wish I never had to open it, but with the millions of fakes floating around I want to feel good about what's on my wrist. AD is probably the best way to go, but they're just too high IMHO. And yes, paypal or cc is a good contingency plan.

Buy the watch, take it to ANY watchmaker to open, take a couple photos of the movement with your iphone, upload them here, we'll let you know within seconds if its authentic movement. PROBLEM SOLVED!

[westsiderkg]

Thanks...Think that's the route I am going to go. Appreciate all the feedback everyone. Seems there are a handful of trusted sellers on the site, so I may just go that route. Appreciate it everyone.

[Tempusfugitus]

In any case how do you know you are being sent a picture of the watch movement in question, since serial number would not be visible? If the seller knew of an issue with the watch, an unreliable seller would just send you a stock picture.

[westsiderkg]

Valid point taken....Guess I was more worried about the obvious, seeing a cheap Asian internal more than a matching serial number.

[neilp]

Originally Posted by westsiderkg

All good feedback, thanks everyone! I like the 48 hour return idea best. Not sure who'd I'd trust local to me to verify authenticity however. Many years ago I bought a Rolex online from a trusted seller, but after receiving it (with all papers) I still felt a little uncomfortable. So, I took the watch to 2 local AD's in my area. The AD's looked it over and said they thought it appeared genuine, but couldn't verify w/o opening the back. Interesting, neither AD would open it...even if I paid them to open it since they said it was not purchased from them. So, I still have no problem buying from a online trusted source since when I sold the watch later on (and the next person was able to verify its authenticity), I just really haven't found anyone yet local to me knowledgeable enough, or willing to open and verify the internals and in my mind it makes me feel all the better seeing the inside, only once of course. Personally, wish I never had to open it, but with the millions of fakes floating around I want to feel good about what's on my wrist. AD is probably the best way to go, but they're just too high IMHO. And yes, paypal or cc is a good contingency plan.

I would have thought in an area with two local ADs there must be several independent watch service specialists of reasonable repute that would be perfect to open a watch without causing damage and be qualified to tell instantly real from fake. Perhaps you need to spend some time googling non-AD watch stores and doing some in person research. Bit dangerous in my experience though! Also a good way to get a feel for retail values of used Rolex locally. And a fun day out!

[Rockrolex]

If you are that concerned, buy from an AD. Otherwise, you should feel comfortable buying from a trusted TRF seller who has plenty of positive feedback. And there are any number of trusted sellers here.

[Guitarfan]

The seller may well decline your 48 hour return request if you've had the caseback off.

As everyone has said, buy the seller or go to an AD.

[Chad072]

Originally Posted by lmcgbaj

Buy the seller.

This. Do your research before purchasing and you should not have anything to worry about. I bought my Rolex from a seller on TRF and didn't have any issues. I browsed the this board and about 3 others for a few months and made a list of about 5 sellers I would feel comfortable buying from. Then, the true waiting started...waiting for the exact watch I wanted around the price I felt the watch was worth. I bought a NOS 16610 and went to my local AD to have it verified. They popped the back and said it was legit, then pressure tested it and wiped the drool from his face.

What you'll find is that the watch community is actually quite small and anybody who rocks the boat by scamming (or attempting to) is usually discovered quickly and sent out to pasture.

[TimeBandit]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

fwiw, you're not "100%" ready to make the purchase with the seller you're engaged with. you mention "upon verification". you're close, but not there yet.

Agree with "Chewy" You may not be quite there...

Sounds like this could be your first major online purchase. If it is, I remember mine, and it was very difficult to pull the trigger! It was a simple Air King, but forking over $2500 to someone I had never met, for a watch I had never seen...Only way around this is an AD, which of course is a great option.

But if you are trying to save some on the purchase, check out a few here at TRF. I mean "really" check them out. Call and speak with them, don't just text/email. Ask tons of questions, and then make an informed decision based on your comfort level with them.

After you have narrowed it down to a couple, PM some forum members and kindly ask if they would share their experience with said seller. Now that you've done your due diligence, it's just a leap of faith; even then, most offer a return period and you would just be out shipping fees. Some offer payment via PP (you could use your CC for more security), but the fees may be prohibitive based on your purchase amount.

As with most things in life, enjoy the journey, and it will get easier after your first...

[Rolex fan 61]

Purchase from an AD !!!!

[AK797]

Agree with most and buy from a trusted seller here or AD, opening the caseback is too much trouble in this case. As for any seller sending you stock pics, always ask for pics with a piece of paper next to it with today's date plus any word of your choice to prove they have the watch in question.

[SALTY]

I have bought a few watches from reliable sellers here and would not hesitate to do more business with them. As others have said - buy the seller.