AP vorPatek

[Token74]

I currently have a Sea Dweller 116600 as my daily wearer, and I'm in the market for two watches to give me a rounded collection:

(1) AP Royal Oak or Patek 5711
(2) Vintage Rolex Submariner 5513 (for classic occasions)

I have some very specific demands of the 5513 so I'm preparing myself for a long search (years rather than months), so my priority is the AP or PP.

I have small wrists (which suits both watches, probably a 36mm or 37mm AP) and I prefer Steel to precious metals (which is lucky given my budget!).

Previously I have mainly bought new, but for this I will be looking at the used market due to my budget.

To look at, I slightly prefer the Patek but only very slightly. I could stretch to the Patek (although it makes my life a lot easier not to) but only if it is justified.

So my question is (finally), how does an AP Royal Oak (15450 for example) compare to a Patek Nautilus (5711 for example) in terms of quality.

There is a pretty significant difference in price, so I assume the Patek must be significantly better - but this confuses me as people are always telling me that AP is superior quality than Rolex, but I think Rolex is pretty damn impressive.

Thoughts of everyone welcome of course, but especially from anyone who has owned both.

[AK797]

The 15202 and 5711 are closer competitors so if you can stretch to the 5711 I would go for that, but they all have to be tried on to really know how they feel to you as at this HH level there is no large difference is quality.

[Clubman]

In terms of quality, no doubt is 5711, but the price difference is double of a 15450. I currently own both, less stressful wearing 15450 on a daily basis.

[RyanNL]

Rolex is very strong in building reliable watches. No Rolex of mine ever failed me. The AP was my drama queen. But still it is the most beautiful watch i own. The quality isn't better but the way the AP's are finished is more complex. The movement is usually also finished way nicer. Be careful with buying an AP or PP secondhand. They are costly to repair.

[subtona]

5711 is an amazing watches that goes well with casual and really crushes a dress watch occasion.

[B. Doggy]

Originally Posted by Clubman

In terms of quality, no doubt is 5711, but the price difference is double of a 15450. I currently own both, less stressful wearing 15450 on a daily basis.

I don't personally agree with this comment. Both these watches are equal in the quality category. Same designer with similar aesthetic, but different in their own right. Good luck on your choice and enjoy the hunt.

[lapince]

I suggest you see both, the 15400 and the 5711 in person, I did, and got the 5712, basically the same as the 5711 but with a few complications, for me there is no question I prefer way more the 5711, but as you say there is a huge price difference, a Jumbo against the 5711 would be closer as they are not so far in terms of prices, if you are ok to get a watch at that price definitely go Patek, if you can, but that's way more money, the 5712 is a great watch, the best I've owned and I had a few.

Good luck choosing

[AS1]

Definitely agree that to compare with a 5711, you have to use the AP15202 (and not the other RO models)

[MrJ320]

Originally Posted by AS1

Definitely agree that to compare with a 5711, you have to use the AP15202 (and not the other RO models)

Agree as well, 15202 in terms of history, size, thinness of the case is a much closer comparison with the 5711. Definitely should try on both to see which one you like more.

My personal ranking is 5712 > 15202 > 5711

I don't think there is a wrong choice.

[GB-man]

In terms of quality they are both top bill for SS sports watches. If you told 100 random people the royal oak costs more than the nautilus, 100 would believe you.

With the nautilus you get exclusivity though, which is nice!

[Demonoid]

For me the 5711 is the king of the hill. I could say the same for the 5712 but when you compare AP to PP, the later wins by a land slide in my book. I really enjoy this brand and the finesse that their pieces portray is really hard to imitate. Again, personal opinion and my two cents. Give them a spin and see how they talk to you.

[goog53]

I have a 6.5" wrist and for me the 5711 fit better than the 15202. Both are beautiful watches. I wouldnt stretch any budget if it puts you in a bind. Both of these pieces will be around for a while so save up and make sure to get the one that is right for you. IMO the 5711 would go better with your collection as it can serve as dress watch and something for casual wear

[Hairdude1]

I love the Royal Oak however say 5711 also mine says hello

[thomaspp]

I chose 15202 over the 5711. More history and personality in my personal al opinion.

There are other very nice and tempting pateks though.

[LostinNihon]

both are iconic designs by Mr. Gerald Genta. The 15202 is the predecessor, so if you value that, I think the RO would be the one. That Said, the 5711 is an incredible timepiece - you cannot go wrong with either.

[cervantes]

Quality is generally equal (though it's hard to quantify these things), no matter what fanboys say, and I'm a Patek guy. It really comes down to personal style. Both watches are icons and unmatched in their class. Patek will hold value better though.

[CWIN]

I've had several Royal Oaks (never a 15202) and a 5711/5712. IMHO, the quality difference if any is negligible. I preferred my 5711 to my 15300/15400 and don't think my opinion would change if I had a 15202.

[exxondus]

Had the same dilenma as u. In the end gave up n got both.

[redsubby]

Quality difference is next to nothing, don't matter what fan-boys say.

[Demonoid]

Originally Posted by redsubby

Quality difference is next to nothing, don't matter what fan-boys say.

Fan boys? Wrong words mate. The differences are substantial if you really look. But at the end of the day is a matter of personal taste...

[jjnd08]

Originally Posted by Demonoid

Fan boys? Wrong words mate. The differences are substantial if you really look. But at the end of the day is a matter of personal taste...

Logan, could you please elaborate on what the differences are?

I just handled a RO for the first time this weekend, and while I have seen the 5711 in the display case, I've never handled it. I'd love to hear what the differences are.

[fai9al]

Case wise: the RO and Nautilus are very similarly finished.

Bracelet: RO wins in my opinion

Clasp: never liked PP's floppy clasp!

[lmcgbaj]

Everyone seems to have ignored that OP is talking about 15450 vs 5711. 15450 is 37mm.

OP: Although not a fair comparison, since 15202 vs 5711 would be more fair in this case, if the size of the 15450 works for you, it's a winner for sure.

Is a 5711 twice the watch vs 15450. No. Hell no.

You can get a MINT or brand new 15450 for about 10-11k. That is a steal.

The quality of the case, bracelet, dial and movement are really incredible. 3120 is an excellent caliber and it fits the 15450 case the best out of all models.

So, yes 15202 and 5711 are nicer watches but not twice as nice and 15450 is a fantastic watch. Don't stretch your budget if you don't have to.

[lmcgbaj]

In regards to 5711 vs 15202 that has been debated for a long time and there are pros and cons both sides. Definitely very close comparison even if you look very close.

[Demonoid]

Originally Posted by jjnd08

Logan, could you please elaborate on what the differences are?

I just handled a RO for the first time this weekend, and while I have seen the 5711 in the display case, I've never handled it. I'd love to hear what the differences are.

JJ. Both are exepcion al pieces don't get me wrong, and at the end of the day it comes to personal taste. For example, the 15400 going from 39 to 41 mm, for some reason, is unconfortable on my wrist. On the other hand the 39 fits much better but it's still "rough" on the wrist. The patek on the other hand especially the 5711 and 5712 are smooth and you barely notice they are there. For some this is not acceptable and might be persived as cheap since people like to feel the weight. I personally think that being able to craft such a piece with those specifications for me is a winner. Just my two cents.

[ralpie]

Originally Posted by Hairdude1

I love the Royal Oak however say 5711 also mine says hello

I love my AP, but every time this guy posts on IG- I want to trade it in for one of these!

[redsubby]

Originally Posted by Demonoid

Fan boys? Wrong words mate. The differences are substantial if you really look. But at the end of the day is a matter of personal taste...

Definitely not wrong words, not referring to yourself or anything, but it seemed like some people are exactly that. No matter what the watch is, it's always PP by a mile, PP any day every day.
I own the 15400 and have handled 5711, the difference is FAR from substantial. You may prefer the 5711 for personal taste reasons and that's completely fine, but to say there is a substantial difference in quality, I completely disagree.

[Demonoid]

Originally Posted by redsubby

Definitely not wrong words, not referring to yourself or anything, but it seemed like some people are exactly that. No matter what the watch is, it's always PP by a mile, PP any day every day.
I own the 15400 and have handled 5711, the difference is FAR from substantial. You may prefer the 5711 for personal taste reasons and that's completely fine, but to say there is a substantial difference in quality, I completely disagree.

In the TRF we have to learn "To agree... To disagree"

[thurgood]

Originally Posted by Demonoid

JJ. Both are exepcion al pieces don't get me wrong, and at the end of the day it comes to personal taste. For example, the 15400 going from 39 to 41 mm, for some reason, is unconfortable on my wrist. On the other hand the 39 fits much better but it's still "rough" on the wrist. The patek on the other hand especially the 5711 and 5712 are smooth and you barely notice they are there. For some this is not acceptable and might be persived as cheap since people like to feel the weight. I personally think that being able to craft such a piece with those specifications for me is a winner. Just my two cents.

[singe89]

PP and AP are my favorite brands but when it comes to the Royal Oak vs the Nautilus I'll take AP every time. It's Genta's original design and was the first luxury sports watch in SS. The fact that AP is still owned by the original family is also a plus in my book. Movement wise I like the 3120 or the AP 2121 over the Patek 324. I also like the RO case and bracelet design/execution (clasp, lugs and screws) over that of the Nautilus.

I really think AP is better than Patek in the luxury sport watch segment with the RO and ROO and Patek is better in the Luxury dress watch segment. I believe there is equal room for both in any collection.