RM and AP...

[lapince]

Found this interesting pic, one wearing a Nadal tourbillon, the grey case one which is very cool, the other wearing a ceramic novelty, very cool but I'd like the RM please

[lapince]

And here with the diver

[nick c]

The Ap is nice its saying your name all over it

[wdin]

I'd like that RM as well!

Between these 2, I think only Nadal wore his timepiece during matches, yes?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by lapince

Found this interesting pic, one wearing a Nadal tourbillon, the grey case one which is very cool, the other wearing a ceramic novelty, very cool but I'd like the RM please

Attachment 631416

Is the diver considered a novelty? I didn't think so

[lapince]

Originally Posted by nick c

The Ap is nice its saying your name all over it

Yep, a few more days

Originally Posted by wdin

I'd like that RM as well!

Between these 2, I think only Nadal wore his timepiece during matches, yes?

No both of them did

Originally Posted by GB-man

Is the diver considered a novelty? I didn't think so

There are 2 AP, the diver and the other which I understand is a ceramic "novelty", could be wrong though...

[wdin]

Originally Posted by lapince

No both of them did

Wow! didn't know AP is aggressive in their marketing and brand placement as RM has always been. Thanks for the info.

And shall look forward to your new AP

[Abdullasaif]

Originally Posted by wdin

Wow! didn't know AP is aggressive in their marketing and brand placement as RM has always been. Thanks for the info.



And shall look forward to your new AP

AP slowed down on their product placement, RM is going full out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapince]

Originally Posted by wdin

Wow! didn't know AP is aggressive in their marketing and brand placement as RM has always been. Thanks for the info.

And shall look forward to your new AP

Thanks man
I don't know what collaboration AP has with him but he wore the 42mm ceramic diver and the 44mm ceramic chrono, in fact it's possible because he puts it on the non playing wrist and he doesn't have a double back hand like Nadal, if he did I'm not sure the AP would be ok, when they tried with Nadal the RM many of them broke, crystal fell, case opened and other things like that

Originally Posted by Abdullasaif

AP slowed down on their product placement, RM is going full out

Yeah AP should slow down, all these "partnerships" with athletes were a little too much, a little is nice, but just a little. About RM they have a lot of endorsements it's true, maybe too many...

[texex91]

Originally Posted by lapince

Thanks man
I don't know what collaboration AP has with him but he wore the 42mm ceramic diver and the 44mm ceramic chrono, in fact it's possible because he puts it on the non playing wrist and he doesn't have a double back hand like Nadal, if he did I'm not sure the AP would be ok, when they tried with Nadal the RM many of them broke, crystal fell, case opened and other things like that



Yeah AP should slow down, all these "partnerships" with athletes were a little too much, a little is nice, but just a little. About RM they have a lot of endorsements it's true, maybe too many...

What are you talking about? Are you referring to when they were testing the new -02 with Nadal? Yes, they are using material that has never been used before and now it's perfect. ALL watch makers (AP especially) TEST watches--especially $800k watches built to be used under stressful conditions. Man get your facts straight.

As to RM having "maybe too many endorsements"--what? AP has probably 10x 'Ambassadors' than RM. Watch companies are marketing companies, and there is no such thing as too many endorsements (marketing is not a bad thing when done correctly).

Not sure you really have a clue about RM (or AP for that matter), so please restrain a little when making silly comments.

[edo]

Originally Posted by lapince

Thanks man
I don't know what collaboration AP has with him but he wore the 42mm ceramic diver and the 44mm ceramic chrono, in fact it's possible because he puts it on the non playing wrist and he doesn't have a double back hand like Nadal, if he did I'm not sure the AP would be ok, when they tried with Nadal the RM many of them broke, crystal fell, case opened and other things like that

Serena Williams plays double backhand with AP on the wrist, and no crystal or diamonds on her ladies ROO felt off...

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by texex91

What are you talking about? Are you referring to when they were testing the new -02 with Nadal? Yes, they are using material that has never been used before and now it's perfect. ALL watch makers (AP especially) TEST watches--especially $800k watches built to be used under stressful conditions. Man get your facts straight.

As to RM having "maybe too many endorsements"--what? AP has probably 10x 'Ambassadors' than RM. Watch companies are marketing companies, and there is no such thing as too many endorsements (marketing is not a bad thing when done correctly).

Not sure you really have a clue about RM (or AP for that matter), so please restrain a little when making silly comments.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by texex91

What are you talking about? Are you referring to when they were testing the new -02 with Nadal? Yes, they are using material that has never been used before and now it's perfect. ALL watch makers (AP especially) TEST watches--especially $800k watches built to be used under stressful conditions. Man get your facts straight.

As to RM having "maybe too many endorsements"--what? AP has probably 10x 'Ambassadors' than RM. Watch companies are marketing companies, and there is no such thing as too many endorsements (marketing is not a bad thing when done correctly).

Not sure you really have a clue about RM (or AP for that matter), so please restrain a little when making silly comments.

Yes I am talking about when they tested it with Nadal, read an article that said that at least 6 times something broke or fell off before getting it right. A high ranking guy in RM was interviewed and hearing him it was almost a miracle to have built a watch with which Nadal can play, I should do like with salespeople and not believe 1 word...

When you see that the Nadal is designed to stand a huge amount of G's, even if I know that AP tests their watches the RM level is huge, and according to them unprecedented, but maybe just marketing, so I didn't expect AP to be close to the level of the RM...

ok I didn't go to the end but here goes for RM: R Nadal, Y Blake, J Todt, F Massa, B Watson, P Mcdonough, R Grosjean, and 3 or 4 more, sorry but for me that's a lot, at least it's not Stallone or Schwarzenegger… Having ambassadors for the brands ok, but naming models after actors or athletes is not something I like very much, but that's me…


I am learning everyday about AP or RM, by reading articles and here, sometimes I make mistakes but it's better to make mistakes and be corrected by someone than say nothing at all, if you read carefully you will see I wrote "I am not sure", "maybe", again I am new to AP and RM, I am not making any statements, just trying to have a discussion going from the things that I read, it's by participating, making errors and being corrected that you evolve, not only for watches...

Originally Posted by edo

Serena Williams plays double backhand with AP on the wrist, and no crystal or diamonds on her ladies ROO felt off...

Well since for RM they had a few problems when testing them I didn't think it was easy to play tennis with watches not specifically designed for it

[texex91]

^^^

Well you should take a tour of both RM and AP and then you will really understand how they test their watches. It's wonderful that you 'read articles' but sometimes you shouldn't believe everything you read. And just FYI, RM testing is actually done by APRP (on high end pieces--like Nadal). They also do AP's testing on high end pieces (Laptimer is great example), and AP does their own in house testing (as I witnessed) in Le Brasses on more 'common' pieces.

Testing is just that--OF COURSE things will go wrong--that's why they do it. So to say the watch was falling apart, blah, blah is just silly.

As to naming pieces after people--that can go either way. If you say "the Bubba Watson watch" almost everyone (WIS) knows what you are talking about--not a bad idea. The way RM does marketing is very different than AP...as it should be since their production numbers are so vastly different (as is their pricing model). If you look at the percentage of 'LE' watches RM produces over almost any other manufacturer, it's MUCH higher. Is that a bad thing--for RM it's not--they are printing money and private--nice combo and tells me it's working. For a higher volume maker like AP, it does not make as much sense IMHO. They even admitted to me that was a mistake in the past, and they do not want to continue that practice in the future (without greater internal scrutiny).

And yes, you do make 'statements' often and that is my issue. Here is one "when they tried with Nadal the RM many of them broke, crystal fell, case opened and other things like that". Just saying if you want to cast an opinion fantastic, but when you make statements that are completely false, it doesn't look good.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by texex91

^^^

Well you should take a tour of both RM and AP and then you will really understand how they test their watches. It's wonderful that you 'read articles' but sometimes you shouldn't believe everything you read. And just FYI, RM testing is actually done by APRP (on high end pieces--like Nadal). They also do AP's testing on high end pieces (Laptimer is great example), and AP does their own in house testing (as I witnessed) in Le Brasses on more 'common' pieces.

Testing is just that--OF COURSE things will go wrong--that's why they do it. So to say the watch was falling apart, blah, blah is just silly.

As to naming pieces after people--that can go either way. If you say "the Bubba Watson watch" almost everyone (WIS) knows what you are talking about--not a bad idea. The way RM does marketing is very different than AP...as it should be since their production numbers are so vastly different (as is their pricing model). If you look at the percentage of 'LE' watches RM produces over almost any other manufacturer, it's MUCH higher. Is that a bad thing--for RM it's not--they are printing money and private--nice combo and tells me it's working.

And yes, you do make 'statements' often and that is my issue. Here is one "when they tried with Nadal the RM many of them broke, crystal fell, case opened and other things like that". Just saying if you want to cast an opinion fantastic, but when you make statements that are completely false, it doesn't look good.

Here's the article about the RM Nadal: http://quillandpad.com/2015/05/25/ri...ts-tourbillon/

They write "The hands, crown, crystal, and other elements also fell off the test watches at various times. But the movement was never harmed, and both Mille and Nadal claimed it kept highly accurate time despite the punishment it was constantly subjected to."

Also they write the following, is that true or BS? "When you accidentally hit your wrist against a table, this already creates an energy wave of about 200 Gs in your watch."

I know AP ROO's are super sport watches, but had the impression that RM is above all others. I do agree that ROO's are sport watches, the PP nautilus ones for me are sporty dress pieces, when I hear they are sport pieces I don't agree.

About testing it's true apart WR and others I don't know, how do they test shock resistance for example?

I am starting to like more and more AP ROO's and RM's, before didn't like either, tastes change I guess plus the few I know from here, I once wrote a thread saying what did people find in RM, you and many others answered and that helped, I looked into them from then on and have come to like some a lot

About the naming I don't really mind for guys I never heard of, like Bubba Watson and a few others, what I like the least is when it's actors, having a Slytech Pam or an Arnold AP not really for me...

[texex91]

Originally Posted by lapince

Here's the article about the RM Nadal: http://quillandpad.com/2015/05/25/ri...ts-tourbillon/

They write "The hands, crown, crystal, and other elements also fell off the test watches at various times. But the movement was never harmed, and both Mille and Nadal claimed it kept highly accurate time despite the punishment it was constantly subjected to."

About the naming I don't really mind for guys I never heard of, like Bubba Watson and a few others, what I like the least is when it's actors, having a Slytech Pam or an Arnold AP not really for me...

Oh lord, yes, they were TESTING (that means PRE-production), not a big deal. ALL watch companies do that...but RM takes it to a whole other level due to the complexity and end use of their watches. Your original statement came across as though RM's 'fall apart', etc--like some blanket statement, which is asinine.

Good luck reading the articles and the 'hunt' for your future watches.

(Note to self: Do not reply to silly threads, you will only get frustrated...repeat)

[lapince]

It's funny how 1-2 years ago the only AP's I liked were the RO's, 15202 especially, now even if I find them nice I wouldn't get one, prefer way more the diver and some ROO's, even though the 44mm is too big for me, tried the all ceramic with new anthracite dial, stunning but can't pull it off

[lapince]

Originally Posted by texex91

Oh lord, yes, they were TESTING (that means PRE-production), not a big deal. ALL watch companies do that...but RM takes it to a whole other level due to the complexity and end use of their watches. Your original statement came across as though RM's 'fall apart', etc--like some blanket statement, which is asinine.

Good luck reading the articles and the 'hunt' for your future watches.

(Note to self: Do not reply to silly threads, you will only get frustrated...repeat)

I always understood they were testing, but I still find it surprising as they have experience and before Nadal tested it it surely underwent many other tests, I thought it was clear that they were testing when I said "when they tried with Nadal", my english is weakening, I talk all the time russian or french…

Of course Paul I already told you before why answer if you think it's stupid, I know I just ignore and that's it, in fact I just posted the pics for viewing, then it went on another path, I try my best to open subjects to learn, IMO most people appreciate my threads and some don't like, if you make a thread with a poll asking "is Lapince a plus, neutral or minus to TRF?" and the poll has more minus than plus, I won't ever post a new thread, seriously

[conkers]

Guys, chill..............

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by texex91

Oh lord, yes, they were TESTING (that means PRE-production), not a big deal. ALL watch companies do that...but RM takes it to a whole other level due to the complexity and end use of their watches. Your original statement came across as though RM's 'fall apart', etc--like some blanket statement, which is asinine.

I don't know how or why, but you've read more into what Arnaud wrote, than is actually written. It doesn't come across like how you're implying, unless you choose to read it that way.

You could've used better tact to get your point across without trying to belittle Arnaud, and should consider offering an apology for picking him up wrong.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by PJ S

I don't know how or why, but you've read more into what Arnaud wrote, than is actually written. It doesn't come across like how you're implying, unless you choose to read it that way.

You could've used better tact to get your point across without trying to belittle Arnaud, and should consider offering an apology for picking him up wrong.

LOL...so I assume you'd vote postive in the poll he wants posted. Too funny

Waste of a few minutes of my time today...for that I am very sorry.

I'm out of this thread (unless asked a serious question)

[PJ S]

What poll?
And why would you be assuming anything?
What other things Arnaud has written elsewhere on the forum is immaterial, since my comments are only in relation to your jumping down his throat, as a result of reading between the lines.

Instead of lolling and acting aloof, a bit of self-effacement wouldn't go amiss, and acknowledgement that you got the wrong end of the stick.

You'll have to forgive me as I ignore your edict that the thread is done and to move on – that's a decision I'll make for myself, thanks all the same.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by lapince

Here's the article about the RM Nadal: http://quillandpad.com/2015/05/25/ri...ts-tourbillon/

They write "The hands, crown, crystal, and other elements also fell off the test watches at various times. But the movement was never harmed, and both Mille and Nadal claimed it kept highly accurate time despite the punishment it was constantly subjected to."

Also they write the following, is that true or BS? "When you accidentally hit your wrist against a table, this already creates an energy wave of about 200 Gs in your watch."

A lot of numbers thrown about that article, and my initial impression is BS – or rather, smoke and mirrors.
The impulse may well be 200 gs, which is roughly 2000 m/s² – but without amplitude, it's just the speed of propagation of the wavefront, which is rather meaningless. Sounds mightily impressive though!
I'm also not convinced about the 800-1000 gs, which is equivalent to almost 1650-1800 lbs of force.
That's sort of power a professional middleweight boxer punches with.

Call me a doubting Thomas, but I'm not convinced the numbers touted have any relevance (but happy to be proved completely wrong).
That said, Wyler Geneve was doing spring mounted movements in the Code R, way back in 2006-7 – demonstrating the effectiveness by dropping a watch from the Eiffel Tower, and having a car drive over it. It survived intact.
So, I'm not sure it's anything more than an evolution of what Wyler did.

[wdin]

Originally Posted by conkers

Guys, chill..............

x2

Originally Posted by texex91

FYI, RM testing is actually done by APRP (on high end pieces--like Nadal).

Paul, is APRP the same as AP? Or is APRP the test centre for AP and RM?
Is this considered RM's test lab or is this APRP? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwCj_01ZeoM

Do pardon my ignorance as I would have thought that RM has their own RnD facilities as well as their own testing labs etc..
So it'll be interesting to note that (if) they (indeed) have a 3rd party to test their watches..

Do straighten me out. I don't want to be pulled in too much with RM's marketing and capabilities so much so that I get my facts (or the ever-lacking of it) wrong.

Thanks!

[texex91]

Originally Posted by wdin

Paul, is APRP the same as AP? Or is APRP the test centre for AP and RM?

Do pardon my ignorance as I would have thought that RM has their own RnD facilities as well as their own testing labs etc..
So it'll be interesting to note that (if) they (indeed) have a 3rd party to test their watches..

Thanks!

Good question--thank you. APRP is Audemars Piguet Renaud Papi, and they actually make the -02 Nadal for RM. They make several (VERY) high end pieces for RM (and other brands such as AP). For me Papi is the king of movements and king of watchmakers (especially once you meet him and understand his history and passion for perfection). They did the design, movements, testing and manufacture of the Nadal-02. Just one small example of how they pursue the best materials, they took 4 years, just to find the Forged Carbon supplier for the AP Schumi V2--4 years.

RM obviously has their own test facilities, but for the serious pieces (such as the NEW Nadal -02 made from a piece of quartz)--it's all hand made by APRP (inside and out).

Hope that helps...and I didn't read this on the internet...Mr. Papi personally told me this, so probably pretty accurate

[wdin]

Originally Posted by texex91

Good question--thank you. APRP is Audemars Piguet Renaud Papi, and they actually make the -02 Nadal for RM. They make several (VERY) high end pieces for RM (and other brands such as AP). For me Papi is the king of movements and king of watchmakers (especially once you meet him and understand his history and passion for perfection). They did the design, movements, testing and manufacture of the Nadal-02. Just one small example of how they pursue the best materials, they took 4 years, just to find the Forged Carbon supplier for the AP Schumi V2--4 years.

RM obviously has their own test facilities, but for the serious pieces (such as the NEW Nadal -02 made from a piece of quartz)--it's all hand made by APRP (inside and out).
Hope that helps...and I didn't read this on the internet...Mr. Papi personally told me this, so probably pretty accurate

Uber impressive to have met Mr Papi himself, I must say. You must be one of their top clients to have gained access to such a man and facility

So APRP is not part of AP?
APRP is another company helping AP and RM (and other high end brands) do up movements and outsourcing materials and the likes?

From what you said can I say that APRP is something like ETA (PLS pardon my analogy as it's the easiest I can try to link with) making movements for RM-this case, the new nadal in quartz. And RM takes it and rebrands it as RM?

Paul, pls don't slaughter me comparing APRP with ETA... im just trying to understand them better in this context quite similar (though APRP does more than movements). So pls pardon me yet again.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by wdin

Uber impressive to have met Mr Papi himself, I must say. You must be one of their top clients to have gained access to such a man and facility

So APRP is not part of AP?
APRP is another company helping AP and RM (and other high end brands) do up movements and outsourcing materials and the likes?

From what you said can I say that APRP is something like ETA (PLS pardon my analogy as it's the easiest I can try to link with) making movements for RM-this case, the new nadal in quartz. And RM takes it and rebrands it with RM?

Paul, pls don't slaughter me comparing APRP with ETA... im just trying to understand them better.

Great questions. AP owns the majority stake of APRP (which use to be just RP) and they make about 800 pieces a year for various watch brands. APRP is located about two hours drive north of Le Brassus. Some pieces are movements only, others are the entire watch (such as Nadal)...they make/design/build and ship to RM a complete Nadal watch (no rebranding). RM HIRES APRP to do this, as they quite frankly are the best out there. Keep in mind they only make the Uber high end RM pieces such as Nadal.

They make watches and movements for about 7 brands (some known, some unknown)...each has their own section in their HQ. VERY fascinating place to visit and Mr. Papi is about the most interesting 'watch' person I've ever met in my life.


Lunch with Mr. Papi:





Mr. Papi showing me the Schumi V2 in person...it's such a cool watch. The whole story (too long to write here) is absolutely fascinating.

[wdin]

Thank you for straightening me out.

Some here are so caught up with brands in-house movements, in-house testing, in-house parts manufacture (rubies and crystals included)...

And here we have an uber luxury brand, RM 'outsourcing' (may I dare use that word here? or should I say commissioned APRP) in its entirety, from conception to birth, (for example their) New Nadal watch.

With this in mind, would I stay away from a Nadal? No way!
Would I buy a Nadal? Pockets ain't deep.
Would I accept a Nadal as a gift? YES YES YES!!

Paul, thank you so much for those insights. And as ever, if my assumptions made above are inaccurate, do correct me for my sake and others.

[GB-man]

I envision mr papi saying "this watch is rather nice"

[texex91]

Originally Posted by wdin

Thank you for straightening me out.

Some here are so caught up with brands in-house movements, in-house testing, in-house parts manufacture (rubies and crystals included)...

And here we have an uber luxury brand, RM 'outsourcing' (may I dare use that word here? or should I say commissioned APRP) in its entirety, from conception to birth, (for example their) New Nadal watch.

With this in mind, would I stay away from a Nadal? No way!
Would I buy a Nadal? Pockets ain't deep.
Would I accept a Nadal as a gift? YES YES YES!!

Paul, thank you so much for those insights. And as ever, if my assumptions made above are inaccurate, do correct me for my sake and others.

Well, 'outsourcing' is a relative term--I consider Papi a hired gun (basically a modern day da Vinci). Even larger companies (AP) come to him to design some of the most complex watches, as only he can do it, and has the testing/materials/expertise to do such crazy stuff. If it comes from Papi it's the creme de la creme of watches--period.

Great questions BTW.