Is this a real Submariner 16610?

[AustinRM]

Just wanted to get verification that this is legit.

I've never seen the two "T" on both sides of the Swiss @ 6 o'clock

Serial# starts with L

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Its good just over polished

[bayerische]

Never seen T Swiss T on a Sub.

[fitzs]

Immediately suspicious of the T Swiss T dial. Patina doesn't match the bezel pip, so you're likely looking at either a bezel swap or dial swap, and probably hands too. My vote is the dial/hands have been swapped out. If it were me, I'd keep looking.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Never seen T Swiss T on a Sub.

ive only seen it on tudor subs.

[mannyv11]

also could be the angle but the minute hand looks a bit off to me based upon how long it is.

[freefly]

Hands could be OK, but that dial and bezel insert are fake IMO.

[Charlie_pace]

Yeah, this looks fake to me... The crown on the bracelet seems weird too.

[bmwsubmariner]

I was just about to post this. Found it here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Submar...AAAOSwl9BWGxec

Looks very fake. The indices on the dial look very off to me, as well as the T SWISS T.

[Sublover2166]

Walk away. Second hand looks off. Dial looks bad. Insert PIP looks bad.
Something fishy with this one.

[thejerseyrock]

My 16610 says...

T - Swiss < 25

... and referencing that with my Mondani Submariner books, it shows same thing

T - Swiss < 25

(not T | Swiss | T )

[freefly]

Originally Posted by bmwsubmariner

I was just about to post this. Found it here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Submar...AAAOSwl9BWGxec

Looks very fake. The indices on the dial look very off to me, as well as the T SWISS T.

That's actually a different watch!

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Know what you guys are right, it's a rail dial which subs never had
T swiss T is from the 60's isn't it?

[bayerische]

Upon seeing this on my computer screen properly, I'd say Fake all of it.

[occb2]

The 1680 Mark II had the T Swiss T dials but only in the gold line they ran a 1575 Cal and only appeared in the solid gold line in blue black. The stainless had the typical SWISS -T <25. I own ROLEX SUBMARINER STORY book. It gives you every Rolex and a picture of it's dial and all details. This is a bogus watch.

[occb2]

I have a digital copy of the book so think I can email the page that explains the T SWISS T dials.

[occb2]

The more I look at it the more fake it is. The crown guards are rigged. The seconds hand like Sublover said is off. That is a ETA movement seconds hand. The dial fonts are modern while the second ticks are from the Mark II. The bezel insert is too small for the bezel. There should be no gap so most likely it is glued on or double tape. Good call to stay away.

[AustinRM]

Well you guys scared the crap out of me. . I just got back from taking the sub to my authorized Rolex dealer (BC Clark) in OKC to have it looked at. They opened it up and look at all of the serial numbers and movement. Everything is legit. I asked about the T SWISS T dial and he said that some Subs had them but not very many. He also complimented that the matte finish is one of the best he has ever seen.

[AustinRM]

And also this was not purchased off of EBay, this was not related to the Sub listed in the eBay listing above. I'm starting to wonder if that one is legit??

[fitzs]

Going by what you just said: Real watch, fake dial (my previous post suspected a dial swap). And I'll make sure to not take my incoming 16570 to BC Clark (I'm nearby). AD should've caught that.

[AustinRM]

I was told by BC Clark that the Bezel and Dial are real and from what he could see (under microscope) that nothing has been swapped out or changed...


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[Sublover2166]

Originally Posted by AustinRM

Well you guys scared the crap out of me. . I just got back from taking the sub to my authorized Rolex dealer (BC Clark) in OKC to have it looked at. They opened it up and look at all of the serial numbers and movement. Everything is legit. I asked about the T SWISS T dial and he said that some Subs had them but not very many. He also complimented that the matte finish is one of the best he has ever seen.

There is NO WAY that dial is legit. Everything about it is wrong. And the seconds hand is all wrong. It is too long and the lume plot is not where it should be. I would say that hand is fake also. If these things were not scrutinized by your man at the AD, I would certainly be concerned. As with doctors, I personally feel you should get a second opinion!!! Somewhere else.

Send a p.m. to member crowncollection(David) here on the forum. He is a wealth of knowledge at spotting fake watches/watch parts. Let him give you his opinion regarding the dial/seconds hand. It won't cost anything other than a little of your time.

[fitzs]

Originally Posted by AustinRM

I was told by BC Clark that the Bezel and Dial are real and from what he could see (under microscope) that nothing has been swapped out or changed...


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It's a Frankenwatch. Movement and case may be legitimate, but it's been heavily tampered with. The dial is blatantly incorrect and never existed as a factory item on any modern Submariner. With that in mind, believe who you will. But any semi-knowledgable Rolex enthusiast would run for the hills and find another one from the seemingly infinite supply of legitimate modern Subs available on the pre owned market. Best of luck to you and hope you sort things out.

[AustinRM]

Just sent a PM to Crowncollection..

What would the approximate value be for this watch if the bezel and dial are after market?
Is it worth replacing the bezel and dial with real ones? What is the cost for something like that?

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I really appreciate it!

[Comacho]

If possible just return it and start over. Unless you REALLY bought it cheap I wouldn't bother spending the time or money making it right when, as mentioned earlier, so many correct pieces are readily available. Just my opinion of course...

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by AustinRM

Well you guys scared the crap out of me. . I just got back from taking the sub to my authorized Rolex dealer (BC Clark) in OKC to have it looked at. They opened it up and look at all of the serial numbers and movement. Everything is legit. I asked about the T SWISS T dial and he said that some Subs had them but not very many. He also complimented that the matte finish is one of the best he has ever seen.

If this is really true, then your AD is not capable of doing authenticity checks.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by AustinRM

Just sent a PM to Crowncollection..

What would the approximate value be for this watch if the bezel and dial are after market?
Is it worth replacing the bezel and dial with real ones? What is the cost for something like that?

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I really appreciate it!

Depends on the watchmaker. But why? Are you sure the rest is legit? Your AD is obviously incapable of telling a fake dial from a real one.