Opportunity To Buy AP ROO Black Themes...Sorta Of

[Syms]

Hey all,

I was presented an opportunity to buy the watch pictured below by a good friend of mine. A friend of his is selling it, along with the rest of his watch collection quick as he's going through a divorce and wants to sell them fast as he probably doesn't want his soon to be ex-wife getting any piece of them.

Anyway, when I first saw a picture of it, I had thought it was a rubber clad (i'm still quite new to AP and have never owned one nor have I ever even had one in my hand.

However, after seeing it in person, i realized that it was not a rubber clad due to it having a black dial with black sub dials. Naturally, it was the rubber bezel and rubber strap that initially made me think it was a rubber clad.

My friend then mentioned that his friend had made a comment about the current owner having purchased it from a reputable Canadian grey market dealer (I did find some threads on TRF with quite a few people commenting on him being a standup seller) who replaced the original bezel (a metal/SS one) with this rubber one.

So off to google I went, trying to figure out what this watch was and I finally figured that this is likely a Black Themes with rubber strap.

Besides this watch having been clearly worn regularly, can anyone confirm for me (at least at first impressions without opening the thing up) whether this watch is what I think it is, the Black Themes? I can take some more pictures from different angles if necessary. I am just not familiar with this watch well enough to know what to look for (other than the cuts on 10 and 8 looking right, and the uneven spacing between subdials being right).

Anything I should look out for on this watch? I have the watch in hand right now but wont have the box and stuff until Saturday or Sunday sometime. I was told it comes with box and papers, the way it was purchased originally from this reputable grey market dealer. (fortunately I have a couple days to do some research on it while the watch is in my posession before I decide if I want it or not. I haven't paid the guy for the watch yet so i'm not at risk of anything at the moment)

Anyways, just looking for some feedback from some more knowledgeable AP enthusiasts. And maybe even some thoughts on what this watch is worth as is (if box and papers are included as promised). Also, what would it cost to replace the rubber bezel with an original SS bezel? And maybe some input on what it would cost to get a full service done on this piece?

I've actually never been on this part of the forum as I have mainly been a big Rolex fan for the longest time. Thanks in advance and hopefully I don't get flamed too much for being a newbie on this.

[WAK4]

I'd call the service center in Clearwater, Florida (don't think AP has one in Canada?), and ask about the cost of service plus new bezel.

If in doubt about authenticity, and I think enough flags exist to have doubts, send it to Clearwater for service and agree with your friend to only complete the deal once you hear back from the service center on it. Maybe a base price less service cost...assuming you want it to begin with.

[masterserg]

I would run and find one from a trusted seller.

You should read this:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=219760

[eal15]

I'm also in Canada. You'll have to send it to Clearwater. Unless you have the chance to drop it at a boutique in the US an AD will charge you big money to ship it. My diver was under warranty so I got mine sent for free but otherwise it was $865 CAD just to ship it there. With all the paperwork it isn't worth it. And servicing is likely to cost about $1650 USD. You're better off putting that money into purchasing a better conditioned watch and not worry about the rest for several years! Just my 2 cents.

Everett

[opaline460]

I'd pass its too worn...

[eonflux]

Take a pic from the side of the buttons and crown.
Because the ROO has a modular movement, the push buttons and crown do not line up on the same plane.

Also, another pic of the dial from more of an angle would be interesting. The calendar should be set kinda far down because of the modular movement construction.

Perhaps someone here who owns one of those can point out specific characteristic items to examine for that model.

[Syms]

Originally Posted by eal15

I'm also in Canada. You'll have to send it to Clearwater. Unless you have the chance to drop it at a boutique in the US an AD will charge you big money to ship it. My diver was under warranty so I got mine sent for free but otherwise it was $865 CAD just to ship it there. With all the paperwork it isn't worth it. And servicing is likely to cost about $1650 USD. You're better off putting that money into purchasing a better conditioned watch and not worry about the rest for several years! Just my 2 cents.

Everett

Any idea why it was that much to ship there? That seems crazy. I use parcel pro to ship within Canada and it only costs me $70 overnight via FedEx from Vancouver to Toronto. If I remember correctly I got a quote for shipping a $10k watch to California for about $125. Again overnight via FedEx through parcel pro.

But yah, $1650 for service, and good knows how much to get a replacement ss bezel.

I looked at the buttons and crown and the crown does sit lower than the push buttons. So that seems to be another good sign.

Anyone have thoughts on what one in this condition is worth taking into consideration the need to pay for a service (would this include a refinish?) and a bezel? The price is already quite good I think. But I believe I could probably get this at a steal even after say $3000 in work needed.

On a side note It seems to be running all otherwise. Its only gained a few seconds over the last 2 days so I don't think that's too bad.


Thanks!



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[eal15]

That's what the ad charges. I'm sure some of that is for their trouble to put the paperwork together for customs and what not.


Thanks,
Everett
AP 15710 Diver
Sent from my iPhone

[Syms]

Originally Posted by eal15

That's what the ad charges. I'm sure some of that is for their trouble to put the paperwork together for customs and what not.


Thanks,
Everett
AP 15710 Diver
Sent from my iPhone

Yikes thats quite a premium. But I guess its in line with their pricing so it does kind of make sense.

[eal15]

Hey, I was outraged! Thankfully mine was still only s few months old do it went for free. Before they saw my warranty they qualified each conversation with what the price was going to be!


Thanks,
Everett
AP 15710 Diver
Sent from my iPhone

[Syms]

Originally Posted by eal15

Hey, I was outraged! Thankfully mine was still only s few months old do it went for free. Before they saw my warranty they qualified each conversation with what the price was going to be!


Thanks,
Everett
AP 15710 Diver
Sent from my iPhone

I'm pretty sure this watch is well out of warranty, so I guess I could simply find a local watch service centre that may be familiar with AP and have them service it for a fraction of the cost

[rozyd]

Originally Posted by Syms

I'm pretty sure this watch is well out of warranty, so I guess I could simply find a local watch service centre that may be familiar with AP and have them service it for a fraction of the cost

Assuming they can get parts. AP controls parts tighter than Rolex.

[Syms]

Originally Posted by rozyd

Assuming they can get parts. AP controls parts tighter than Rolex.

Good point. On to the next it is.

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[s14roller]

Depending on the price, it may be worth to just get it for super cheap and wear it as a beater. I wouldn't go through the trouble of getting it and then paying for a new bezel, etc. Basically continue wearing it as the owner has...

[Syms]

Originally Posted by s14roller

Depending on the price, it may be worth to just get it for super cheap and wear it as a beater. I wouldn't go through the trouble of getting it and then paying for a new bezel, etc. Basically continue wearing it as the owner has...

Actually thought of that too nice gave him an offer based on that mindset. Don't think he's going to take it but if he does, its still worth it.

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[SMD]

Not sure if anyone answered the question but that is not the black themes AP. Assuming it's authentic it is a rubber clad.

[AK797]

I wouldn't buy a hybrid of two models.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by SMD

Not sure if anyone answered the question but that is not the black themes AP. Assuming it's authentic it is a rubber clad.

It’s not – the SS Ruber Clad had white sub-dials on black, not black on black.
The dial is definitely Black Theme.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by PJ S

It’s not – the SS Ruber Clad had white sub-dials on black, not black on black.
The dial is definitely Black Theme.

Then it's not real or been cobbled together. Run away and find a new "friend".

[Hamish]

I am not sure that this watch is a black themes. I owned one and the bezel was S/S not rubber.
For what it is worth I would pass

[Syms]

Thats where the story is all weird.

So it is a reputable Canadian grey market dealer that sold the owner this watch, with a rubber bezel on it. The buyer knew that the original bezel was supposed to be SS but was fine with the rubber bezel (new rubber bezel when he bought it). Im wondering if maybe the original watch had a busted up SS bezel, and the grey market dealer was only able to source a replacement rubber bezel and thus did the swap.

Other than the bezel being out of place, the watch looks pretty good when looked over as it doesnt exhibit any of the typical flaws of a fraudemars. Of course there is no way to tell for certain until the caseback has been opened. Will definitely do that since there is no warranty to void anyway.

Again, at the price I've offered, its worthwhile piece to buy and wear and hopefully eventually find a replacement bezel. Or wait until there it truly needs some servicing before spending the money to get that done.

[PJ S]

Assuming the dial is genuine, not a replica one, then there’s every chance the dealer or a previous owner, bought it and had it installed, just to be different.
Without full documentation of what exactly has taken place, you’d be well to pass or only buy once APSC has confirmed authenticity of parts, and cost to replace with SS bezel and correct dial.
It’s not going to be cheap – dial alone is likely to be $800-1000, at least, and the bezel is probably not all that much cheaper, if even.
This is all on the premise that aside from custom changes, the watch is a genuine Rubber Clad.

You could opt to leave the dial as is, if you prefer it (and it’s a real BT one), and just price up a service and the SS bezel – but the whole exercise has to be cost effective, if not more in your favour, to go through all that hassle.

[SMD]

Biggest mistake you can make is chasing the deal.

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by SMD

Biggest mistake you can make is chasing the deal.

Couldn't agree more.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by SMD

Biggest mistake you can make is chasing the deal.

Yeah, get the watch you want
Instead of trying to get a "good" deal on something else
Often ends up being more expensive (time is money) in the end

[Syms]

Originally Posted by eonflux

Yeah, get the watch you want
Instead of trying to get a "good" deal on something else
Often ends up being more expensive (time is money) in the end

I absolutely agree.

However I wonder if the asking price of around 8k usd or less would make this worthwhile as a beater none the less lol! That's my dilemma. It's a really good deal just to wear as is. But that 8k could go quite a ways towards something else I actually want so it's a somewhat tough decision.

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[AK797]

For $8K I would need to see the mvmnt, sounds like a Franken.

[s14roller]

Asking price around $8K? If that means this could be had for around $6.5K and has complete box and papers, I think you're good to go. From what I can tell, dial looks authentic, and date window, etc. all line up fine. If you have the warranty book and it's stamped properly by AD, all the model numbers and serials line up, I think you're pretty good to go. What serial is that? F? I'd assume it would be a JLC movement, which if you wind, should almost feel like nothing. No "gear feel" like you would find in a Rolex or most other watches...

[Syms]

Originally Posted by s14roller

Asking price around $8K? If that means this could be had for around $6.5K and has complete box and papers, I think you're good to go. From what I can tell, dial looks authentic, and date window, etc. all line up fine. If you have the warranty book and it's stamped properly by AD, all the model numbers and serials line up, I think you're pretty good to go. What serial is that? F? I'd assume it would be a JLC movement, which if you wind, should almost feel like nothing. No "gear feel" like you would find in a Rolex or most other watches...

Correct. Includes box and papers as I've been told.

Also good call on the gear feel... Or lack there of. When I wind it there is no mechanical feel like my other watches. Serial on the back confirms F model as well.

I will be offering him under the 8k

Based on who he bought it from, I think if the books and certs showing model number match up with the black themes in disguise like I think this likely is, it is safe to buy (after checking inside too of course) . This is not being purchased blind or online so there is some avoided risk there.

Will see how it goes. He may not bite at around 6500-7k which is what I'm prepared to pay. If n pretty, no big deal. I'll move on.

Sorry wanted to also clarify , he wasn't asking 8k. . I offered just over $8k (in cad $ equivalent) only having seen a mediocre quality picture with the condition of seeing the watch in person first as well as thinking it was a rubberclad. he accepted my offer, but after seeing the watch and realizing all these issues with it, I'm not willing to pay that price.
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[bayerische]

If you can get it at a good price then, why not. I would keep it as is.