To Flip or not to Flip!?! That is the Question!

[Starwalker]

I am having the serious itch to flip....and it's been going on for awhile.....but i need your help and expertise to weigh out all the pros and cons, as I have never flipped any of my watches ever.

I have a 116610LN (SUB-SS/C)...and the watch that has caught my eye is a Panerai 389. Both are about the same age, in virtually the same condition....the offer I have on hand is the Panerai 389 for the SS/SubC + 700 dollars from my end.

I'm wondering if this is a good and a fair deal? I feel like my judgement might be clouded by the itch to flip.

My thoughts are that the PAM 389 will hold it's value a lot less over the long run, a sub is always a classic, however, I have the 116713LN, 116613LB and the 116520 and will hopefully be getting the 116550 (new daytona)...so I am a bit Rolex heavy. Additionally I also have a Chopard GMT Mille Miglia and the Chopard LUC Sport 2000, I dont want to flip any of the Chopards. Absolutely adore them.

I love the ceramic bezel on the PAM 389, it's also a dive watch, I love the size! It feels like it's built like a tank. It's one of the very few Panerai's i do like and I wouldnt mind having it in the collection.

The other questions I have in mind: what are the issues with Panerai? how is the build quality, will it look good after 10 years? Are they easy to service? Was there a resolution from Panerai after the 318 scandal? Feel like the big and oversized watches might just be a fad...but even if so, everything I have is pretty normal in size.

I really disliked the 116610LN, but the more I wear the Rolex the more I like it and I have really warmed up to it.

Would appreciate your thoughts and inputs....show I trade the 116610LN for a Panerai? Should I trade it for the PAM 389? and do you think it's a fair deal?

Thank you for taking the time and consideration!

p.s. - photo is definitely not mine, but thank you to however took it!

[Fleetlord]

This is an interesting trade question.

I will qualify my opinion by showing that I own and wear variants of both models in question.

I have a 305 that is a 389 minus the ceramic bezel insert and solid caseback. 305 is not antimagnetic and has a display back. Both are 300m

The Hulk is....well, the Hulk. Still a Sub-C

As you can see, the Panerai @ 47mm is substantially larger than the Sub-C...so you need the wrist to pull it off.

Being titanium, it's lighter than one would think for a watch this size.

Pros: Wrist presence, strap flexibility, brushed TI looks great, not everyone has one.

Cons: P9000 movement rotor is LOUD and sounds rough. Maybe the solid caseback will help with the 389, but the 305 rotor sounds kinda trashy. The quick adjust strap mechanism is finicky. You need to be mindful not to jam the buttons as there is no fix for a busted one other than case replacement.
It's a big watch for only 300m WR, so in that regard it's kind of a hollow size. The sub definitely feels the more solid of the two.
The date can look off center in its window depending on the angle.

You will only be able to have the 389 serviced a Panerai service center. Mixed reviews on that as with any OEM service center these days.

It's Titanium so it's prone to scratches and dings, but the service can make it look new.

318 scandal was resolved and nobody cares about it anymore...

In terms of numbers, the 389 retails @ $11K and the Sub-C @ 8.5K.

Pre-owned 389 are holding at around $7700 to $8000 for a full set.

Sub C's have been around $6600-$6800 preowned full set.

So if you can get a 389 for Sub-C plus $700, the money is right.

Normally I wouldn't advocate trading a ROLEX for a Panerai, but in this case it's an ok deal if you want to try out the PAM. Just be prepared to continue to lose value with the PAM, while the Rolex will HOLD where it is...

[japenney]

I am not sure if it is a good deal money wise. So I can only offer generic advice. Take a couple of weeks to think about it and make sure the Pan is not something you want on impulse. If you really think you would prefer it go ahead and follow your heart (if the money side of it holds up).

[Singslinger]

I'm not a big fan of Panerai but that is a handsome watch.

On the question of which would have a better resale, I'd have to go with Rolex.

Panerai have released too many "limited edition'' models over the years which I think has diluted the brand's exclusivity and tested the patience of many collectors.

Another thing to consider is after-sales service which is exceptional in Rolex's case, but maybe not as good with Panerai (at least not where I am).

[Starwalker]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

This is an interesting trade question.

I will qualify my opinion by showing that I own and wear variants of both models in question.

I have a 305 that is a 389 minus the ceramic bezel insert and solid caseback. 305 is not antimagnetic and has a display back. Both are 300m

The Hulk is....well, the Hulk. Still a Sub-C

As you can see, the Panerai @ 47mm is substantially larger than the Sub-C...so you need the wrist to pull it off.

Being titanium, it's lighter than one would think for a watch this size.

Pros: Wrist presence, strap flexibility, brushed TI looks great, not everyone has one.

Cons: P9000 movement rotor is LOUD and sounds rough. Maybe the solid caseback will help with the 389, but the 305 rotor sounds kinda trashy. The quick adjust strap mechanism is finicky. You need to be mindful not to jam the buttons as there is no fix for a busted one other than case replacement.
It's a big watch for only 300m WR, so in that regard it's kind of a hollow size. The sub definitely feels the more solid of the two.
The date can look off center in its window depending on the angle.

You will only be able to have the 389 serviced a Panerai service center. Mixed reviews on that as with any OEM service center these days.

It's Titanium so it's prone to scratches and dings, but the service can make it look new.

318 scandal was resolved and nobody cares about it anymore...

In terms of numbers, the 389 retails @ $11K and the Sub-C @ 8.5K.

Pre-owned 389 are holding at around $7700 to $8000 for a full set.

Sub C's have been around $6600-$6800 preowned full set.

So if you can get a 389 for Sub-C plus $700, the money is right.

Normally I wouldn't advocate trading a ROLEX for a Panerai, but in this case it's an ok deal if you want to try out the PAM. Just be prepared to continue to lose value with the PAM, while the Rolex will HOLD where it is...

thank you for the valuable insights and the in depth comparison. I'm still on the fence though....i love the solidness of the sub, and i think i'm going to miss it....i just don't want to regret getting the PAM out of an infatuation. this is a tough one. need to really think about whether or not to actually make the jump.

[ppalasthira]

Every Pam (005 & 111) I had, I bought new and flipped it within 6 months. Pams are good looking watches, don't get me wrong. But for you it might work cuz you have quite a few other watches in your collection that you could wear as a daily driver.

[Cru Jones]

fleetlord's breakdown is pretty spot-on, but, i don't think you'll notice any difference in "toughness" between the two. as for the quick strap change buttons, they are VERY convenient and in four years of constant strap changing, i've had zero issues at all. it's sort of like the rolex ceramic bezel weakness myth....

as for the financials, i think the deal is pretty good on your end. plus, it's really easy to add back a sub down the road if you want one. plus, you've got plenty of other rolexes in the stable to switch things up.

the 389 is an awesome piece if you have the wrist and/or style for it. go for it and enjoy!

[Sublovin]

Panerai collecting is at a low...Rolex is at a high. I like Panerai and own a couple...I think now is the time to buy them because the market is soft.
The good news about this deal, if you decide you miss the Sub too much, it shouldn't be difficult to reverse the situation and sell the Panerai to get another Sub.
Go with your gut...it's usually right

[JP Chestnut]

Panerai is a novelty brand, whose novelty has worn off imo. The Rolex will be cool in 30 years. The PAM will be "what the heck was I thinking" in 10. Just my opinion.

[Rolthai32]

No Brainer why would you trade a Rolex for a low end over priced Panerai?

[yannis]

I would not flip.

[MoonExplorer]

Wouldn't do the trade. I like the 389, but the SS Sub is a classic. Would rather trade the 2tone GMT for the 389 (as you already have a 2tone Sub) than the SS Sub.

[gtnator]

I love Panerai and have a few. I also LOVE Rolex and have a few. Panerai and Rolex have had an interesting relationship, in fact, a very unique one. Early Panerai was powered with Rolex movements. No other watch outside of the Rolex umbrella has ever had a Rolex movement, as far as I have been able to research. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...rolex-movement

The other interesting thing outside of the intertwined relationship between the Panerai and Rolex companies is that most of the Paneristi (Panerai lovers) that I have met over the years also really like Rolex and may even own a few. So I actually think its more than OK to like both and may even be a natural progression to go back and forth as there is something about both brands that is a common thread and some people see it, even though some do not.

As others have said, always follow your heart and buy and enjoy the watch you want. Having said all of this, I actually would NOT trade in your Sub for a Panerai. The Sub is such an iconic and classic watch that unless you're leaving the Rolex family forever, you kind of have to keep it. It will always be nice, it will always be cool, it will always be highly desired. What I would do in your situation is to try and wait it out and save more cash to purchase the Panerai outright with no trade. It might take a lot longer but I think years from now, you will be happier still having that iconic Sub.

Just my opinion. I wish you well.

[chloebear]

I'm normally not a huge fan of Panerai, but man that is a cool looking Panerai! Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Starwalker]

I can't believe, I'm still thinking about this...but after taking everyone's comments into consideration and thinking about it properly...I think it's better not to flip. The Panerai 389 comes across as an infatuation and as much as i love the size, it's not practical.

To those that have replied and taken the time to give me advice, I just want to say, thank you. Sincerely. Thank you.

I still want to flip the sub...but really am on the hunt to find something that really sings to me.....and so the journey continues...

[2JHead]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Panerai is a novelty brand, whose novelty has worn off imo. The Rolex will be cool in 30 years. The PAM will be "what the heck was I thinking" in 10. Just my opinion.

This. Alot of this.

[perryj]

Agree, sub always.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Starwalker

I can't believe, I'm still thinking about this...but after taking everyone's comments into consideration and thinking about it properly...I think it's better not to flip. The Panerai 389 comes across as an infatuation and as much as i love the size, it's not practical.

To those that have replied and taken the time to give me advice, I just want to say, thank you. Sincerely. Thank you.

I still want to flip the sub...but really am on the hunt to find something that really sings to me.....and so the journey continues...

It's good to take some time as when a new watch catches your eye it can become very intoxicating and exciting but then it often leads to flippers remorse in the cold light of day. I usually give myself the 1 month test to see if I really want the watch from the moment I really think/decide I want it. Ideally 3.

[Maiden]

You have several other Rolex's, so if the Sub isn't getting any wrist time, make the trade....not commenting on the value however, not sure about that...

[beshannon]

There are very few watches I would trade a Rolex for.

Panerai is NOT one of them

[Abdullasaif]

Probably for that pam no

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

This is an interesting trade question.

I will qualify my opinion by showing that I own and wear variants of both models in question.

I have a 305 that is a 389 minus the ceramic bezel insert and solid caseback. 305 is not antimagnetic and has a display back. Both are 300m

The Hulk is....well, the Hulk. Still a Sub-C

As you can see, the Panerai @ 47mm is substantially larger than the Sub-C...so you need the wrist to pull it off.

Being titanium, it's lighter than one would think for a watch this size.

Pros: Wrist presence, strap flexibility, brushed TI looks great, not everyone has one.

Cons: P9000 movement rotor is LOUD and sounds rough. Maybe the solid caseback will help with the 389, but the 305 rotor sounds kinda trashy. The quick adjust strap mechanism is finicky. You need to be mindful not to jam the buttons as there is no fix for a busted one other than case replacement.
It's a big watch for only 300m WR, so in that regard it's kind of a hollow size. The sub definitely feels the more solid of the two.
The date can look off center in its window depending on the angle.

You will only be able to have the 389 serviced a Panerai service center. Mixed reviews on that as with any OEM service center these days.

It's Titanium so it's prone to scratches and dings, but the service can make it look new.

318 scandal was resolved and nobody cares about it anymore...

In terms of numbers, the 389 retails @ $11K and the Sub-C @ 8.5K.

Pre-owned 389 are holding at around $7700 to $8000 for a full set.

Sub C's have been around $6600-$6800 preowned full set.

So if you can get a 389 for Sub-C plus $700, the money is right.

Normally I wouldn't advocate trading a ROLEX for a Panerai, but in this case it's an ok deal if you want to try out the PAM. Just be prepared to continue to lose value with the PAM, while the Rolex will HOLD where it is...

Nice post! Good advice here.

[crowncollection]

I would keep the sub


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[watchwatcher]

Originally Posted by Starwalker

I can't believe, I'm still thinking about this...but after taking everyone's comments into consideration and thinking about it properly...I think it's better not to flip. The Panerai 389 comes across as an infatuation and as much as i love the size, it's not practical.

To those that have replied and taken the time to give me advice, I just want to say, thank you. Sincerely. Thank you.

I still want to flip the sub...but really am on the hunt to find something that really sings to me.....and so the journey continues...

Think you're wise...take your time and enjoy the trip.

[lmcgbaj]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Panerai is a novelty brand, whose novelty has worn off imo. The Rolex will be cool in 30 years. The PAM will be "what the heck was I thinking" in 10. Just my opinion.

I feel the same way. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by Starwalker

I can't believe, I'm still thinking about this...but after taking everyone's comments into consideration and thinking about it properly...I think it's better not to flip. The Panerai 389 comes across as an infatuation and as much as i love the size, it's not practical.

To those that have replied and taken the time to give me advice, I just want to say, thank you. Sincerely. Thank you.

I still want to flip the sub...but really am on the hunt to find something that really sings to me.....and so the journey continues...

I think you made the right decision. Unless, you'd want to trade your sub for this Pam(233) or an AP. By the way, I was in a similar situation considering trading my BLNR for Pam 233. Eventually, I decided to keep the BLNR and traded my 111 towards the 233. I just couldn't get myself to trade a Rolex for a Pam and feel I made the right decision after all. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

[Starwalker]

So...after giving it a serious amount of thought.....i finally flipped the 116610....forrrrrrrrrrr......the 389!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really, really, really thought about...and as much I as did not want to, I couldn't shake the 389 outta my head.....i had to given in.... I think it might have been out of a strong impulse and infatuation....and getting bored with the 116610.....which I felt like I could easily get back the submariner at any point in the future. plus I have the 116713LN and the 116613LB! and the case design, in all honesty was too similar for me. Now my only SS rolex is my trusty daytona.

I've had the watch fro a few days now, and honestly,...I don't miss the sub yet. It definitely has much more wrist presence, and i would say that is a very solid watch - it's built like a tank without a doubt. I'm very happy with the decision of trading the sub, no regrets....for now.

big shout out to boxertime for helping me make this happen!

Here are some pictures I took over the weekend:

[Saoirse32]

Congrats and good luck!

[TickTopia]

The 389 is one of the very few pam's, that I would actually consider purchasing. Congrats!

[Cru Jones]

congrats! looks great. no harm trying it out....at least you'll know.