Informations: Tudor 7016/0 ETA 2461 for sale

[Euclide]

Hello,

I would like to buy this Tudor, but I do not know if the advertised price is reasonable or not? I contacted the seller , he said that the watch , especially the 2461 movement is unobtainable and coveted by collectors.
This watch is for sale on a well-known classified ads site in France : LeBonCoin.
The seller said that the watch was revised in April, the pic of the movement was taken at his request during the service. And that if there was a doubt about the authenticity of the watch it might be open to a watchmaker.

Thanks you for your answers.

[lhanddds]

Well, what is the price?

[Euclide]

7 499€, price is negotiable.

[jdog111578]

The first versions contained a a 390 and later switched to a 2483. Very few contained the 2461, so they are correct there.I would need to see better pics of the dial and hands. The minute hand looks way too thick and the second hand long. I won't go into specifics, but they don't look right to me at all.Case is also very questionable in my eyes too. Im not really a fan of this watch to be honest. Especially not at that price.

[Euclide]

Thank you,
I contacted the seller , I will check tomorrow morning to a watchmaker if the watch is in question or not.

[linesiders]

Completely fake - no need for you to follow up with the seller. 100% certain.

Certain Fake:
Case
Hands
Insert

Movement might be real from a different Tudor but why bother

Due to poor photos cannot tell on dial but with the lume plots being mountainous I suspect there too.

Stay well clear.

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Completely fake,

Stay well clear.

sums it up quite nicely...

[warpath]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Completely fake - no need for you to follow up with the seller. 100% certain.

Certain Fake:
Case
Hands
Insert

Movement might be real from a different Tudor but why bother

Due to poor photos cannot tell on dial but with the lume plots being mountainous I suspect there too.

Stay well clear.

Would you mind sharing the points that identify this watch as fake? It would be very helpful to those of us who can not tell (not yet anyway) exactly why. Thanks. Ed

[linesiders]

Ed - CK PM

I actually suspect that the images listed there contain photos from 2 different watches.

[Euclide]

Thank you for your answers.
First, this is the same watch the pictures.
This morning I had an appointment with the seller, I don't want to offend, but this watch is real. It was fully open, the case is true, the dial is signed Beyeler, the insert, etc... The watchmaker is sure and I trust him.
I know the story of the watch, I saw some pics of it.
Everyone can make mistakes. Probably because of the quality of pics.
I don't know if I buy it, because it is expensive...

[jdog111578]

Originally Posted by warpath

Would you mind sharing the points that identify this watch as fake? It would be very helpful to those of us who can not tell (not yet anyway) exactly why. Thanks. Ed

If you'd like to PM me I'll gladly help you out with this. Not great practice to point it out on the forums. Certain people like to look for these to make "improvements"

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Euclide

Thank you for your answers.
First, this is the same watch the pictures.
This morning I had an appointment with the seller, I don't want to offend, but this watch is real. It was fully open, the case is true, the dial is signed Beyeler, the insert, etc... The watchmaker is sure and I trust him.
I know the story of the watch, I saw some pics of it.
Everyone can make mistakes. Probably because of the quality of pics.
I don't know if I buy it, because it is expensive...

For 8000USD/7500 Euro, I will get you a spectacular 7016 and can collect a nice finder's fee.

The hands and insert are absolutely fake, no doubt. No margin for error. 100% positive
The poor quality images indicate that the dial is no good. 80% positive
The poor quality images indicate to me that the case is no good. 80% positive based on the poor quality photos. The case has some details of the Semi-Pointed-Crown-Guard for early 68 which means it should have a Rose dial and Mercedes hands. Did the caseback have 7528 on the back? What is the first three #s of the serial.

I would truly welcome better photos to prove myself wrong on a few things but I know I am at least half right ;)

[Frogman4me]

It is true we need better photos to determine for certain some of the issues but I can tell you right off the bat the hands are fake. The shape and size are incorrect. The dial although I can't see the text clearly the lume plots look too puffy and I have my doubts. The insert is incorrect and likely artificially faded with bleach. The watch has way too many red flags to even consider in my opinion.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by linesiders

For 8000USD/7500 Euro, I will get you a spectacular 7016 and can collect a nice finder's fee.

The hands and insert are absolutely fake, no doubt. No margin for error. 100% positive
The poor quality images indicate that the dial is no good. 80% positive
The poor quality images indicate to me that the case is no good. 80% positive based on the poor quality photos. The case has some details of the Semi-Pointed-Crown-Guard for early 68 which means it should have a Rose dial and Mercedes hands. Did the caseback have 7528 on the back? What is the first three #s of the serial.

I would truly welcome better photos to prove myself wrong on a few things but I know I am at least half right ;)

x 2 based on comparison with photos of others from highly trusted sellers. Don't second-guess Linesiders and Frogman4me when it comes to Tudors. They know :-)

[Euclide]

I know I asked for advice, thank you for it.
I understand your point of view. But allow me to have my own opinion.
I spent more than two hours at the watchmaker while he verified the watch, I think he would have detected the defects you see. He is a professional.
As I say , the watch has a history. The hands, as the patina.
The hands can be replace by others gen.
But I have trouble believing some explanations when people say that there are two different watches on the photos, although not at all. Allow me to be skeptical about your jugement.
I believe that we become paranoid these days and I understand.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Euclide

I know I asked for advice, thank you for it.
I understand your point of view. But allow me to have my own opinion.
I spent more than two hours at the watchmaker while he verified the watch, I think he would have detected the defects you see. He is a professional.
As I say , the watch has a history. The hands, as the patina.
The hands can be replace by others gen.
But I have trouble believing some explanations when people say that there are two different watches on the photos, although not at all. Allow me to be skeptical about your jugement.
I believe that we become paranoid these days and I understand.

No disrespect intended, and no paranoia for me. I have nothing to lose or gain if you make a good choice or a bad choice. I just think you are about to make a mistake and have said so. Post better photos and you can get a lot more accurate opinion. It's your money.

Good luck

[Euclide]

Thank you, but I don't buy this watch. It's too expensive for me. :)
But I think you do not have all the elements in hand to prove that this watch is false.
But I like to have several opinions. ;)

[Kiaraff]

Sorry, but this watch is not even a good fake!
Cheap Bezel set from eBay (nostalgia or Jackman). Just look at the case shape, hands, insert, filed serial......
It's a new watch, born in China and altered to look vintage!

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by Euclide

Thank you, but I don't buy this watch. It's too expensive for me. :)
But I think you do not have all the elements in hand to prove that this watch is false.
But I like to have several opinions. ;)

when 4 long time members here tell you its likely fake, I would seriously consider it.

For starters, what do you know and what does your watchmaker know? You and your watchmaker don't see Tudor 7016s on a regular basis like these members do.

Anyway, without offending, I think the guys here have spent enough time trying to educate you. Hope you can take on their views.

[shawndww]

That bezel seems wrong and odd from the side profile, insert is bleached and fake.

Crown looks wrong, but photos are crappy. So better photos could turn some of the negatives into a positive. Or simply add more negatives. Good luck

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Euclide

Thank you, but I don't buy this watch. It's too expensive for me. :)
But I think you do not have all the elements in hand to prove that this watch is false.
But I like to have several opinions. ;)

Starting to think we're being trolled...

[tomilg]

Okay, I know who to consult for vintage Tudor advice!!!

[shawndww]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Starting to think we're being trolled...

Started with I would like to buy this watch... By the end it's too expensive..

In the context of 7500 for a fake watch.. I guess it is a bit much

Noticed in the bad photos that the dial appears fake as well.

[eco8gator]

linesiders is highly knowledgeable regarding Tudor Subs...

If he says its not right it isn't right.

Hands are off.

Dial is off.

Case seems off.

Here are a couple for comparison...

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=353208

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=468816

Note, the guys on this forum will not point out exact details of what isn't right with the watch...don't want to help the fakers.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Starting to think we're being trolled...

Agree - 5 posts, on this advice thread, advice declined. I am knowledgeable on these but do not consider myself expert (when I compare myself to the real experts ;) ), but this piece did not pass the smell test with me.

[John in MA]

To me something doesn't add up. My eyes tell me that I'm looking at at least 3 different watches.

1. The reference number case image appears to be a later 7016 case based on the lug profile.
2. The serial number image appears to have the lug profile of an I-III 68 case.
3. The caseback image looks to be another watch.
4. The images of the watch in question appear to have the following fake components:

• Hands
• case
• insert
• Crown
• the dial is open but is at least a relume

Oh and did NO ONE notice that the crystal in the serial number image is a beveled service T19 while the images of the whole watch appear to be missing the beveled T19?

As for the OP's story. First he says he is buying it from a seller who had it serviced and had a picture of the movement taken at his request. If he's the watchmaker, why not take the picture himself or are you referring to a different watchmaker? Did the watchmaker you took the watch to take it apart? Would that not void the warranty that the first seller got when he had it serviced in April? If I was the seller and I was going to have a different watchmaker look at the watch I'd tell you to pound sand if he was going to open it....but then....I wouldn't sell a fake watch......As for watchmakers telling the real from the fake...Even Rolex IIRC has serviced watches that had fake components. If they can't tell in some instances, how would a watchmaker know? Don't say because he's "Rolex Certified or Trained."

Too many ???? regarding the images and the OP story (including the defense of a clearly fake watch) for me to say anything but SCAM in hopes of seeing if it can be identified as a fake before selling elsewhere.

I mean come on...That insert is obviously bleached and those hands have been around since what.....2005?!?!?!?

More then happy to be proven wrong but I smell something and it ain't roses.

For the poster who said 7016's came with 390's that is not correct. Could a 2461 be in a 7016? Could be but wouldn't be for a snowflake 7016.

[Rebel]

Stunning.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by John in MA

To me something doesn't add up. My eyes tell me that I'm looking at at least 3 different watches.

1. The reference number case image appears to be a later 7016 case based on the lug profile.
2. The serial number image appears to have the lug profile of an I-III 68 case.
3. The caseback image looks to be another watch.
4. The images of the watch in question appear to have the following fake components:

• Hands
• case
• insert
• Crown
• the dial is open but is at least a relume

Oh and did NO ONE notice that the crystal in the serial number image is a beveled service T19 while the images of the whole watch appear to be missing the beveled T19?

As for the OP's story. First he says he is buying it from a seller who had it serviced and had a picture of the movement taken at his request. If he's the watchmaker, why not take the picture himself or are you referring to a different watchmaker? Did the watchmaker you took the watch to take it apart? Would that not void the warranty that the first seller got when he had it serviced in April? If I was the seller and I was going to have a different watchmaker look at the watch I'd tell you to pound sand if he was going to open it....but then....I wouldn't sell a fake watch......As for watchmakers telling the real from the fake...Even Rolex IIRC has serviced watches that had fake components. If they can't tell in some instances, how would a watchmaker know? Don't say because he's "Rolex Certified or Trained."

Too many ???? regarding the images and the OP story (including the defense of a clearly fake watch) for me to say anything but SCAM in hopes of seeing if it can be identified as a fake before selling elsewhere.

I mean come on...That insert is obviously bleached and those hands have been around since what.....2005?!?!?!?

More then happy to be proven wrong but I smell something and it ain't roses.

For the poster who said 7016's came with 390's that is not correct. Could a 2461 be in a 7016? Could be but wouldn't be for a snowflake 7016.

Thank you, Jedi Master. Your Padawan (moi) pointed out most of those things including the different watch photos - and said a few of these to others in PM ;)

[John in MA]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Thank you, Jedi Master. Your Padawan (moi) pointed out most of those things including the different watch photos - and said a few of these to others in PM ;)

LOL! Not sure about the Jedi Master part but thanks. Been staring at 7016's for too many years both real and fake and this is a budget fake.

[Kiaraff]

Now on ebay:

http://m.benl.ebay.be/itm/Unobtainab...048?nav=SEARCH