Help with Sea-dweller 1665 rail dial and blue bezel

[olyvman]

Hi,

I just bought a Rolex 1665 sea-dweller Rail Dial and I have a serious doubt on the bezel which, according to the merchant would be patinated and which for me seems to be originally blue (maybe a Tudor one?).
Does any of the experts in this forum can give me clues / informations about the origin of this bluish insert?
Is there a genuine Rolex black insert which can turn to blue after several years?

Moreover, does any of you is aware of the number of Rail Dial produced for the 1665 sea-dweller?
I earded about 300-400 pieces (few months around 1978 of production) and read about several thousand (produced during 2 years).







Thanks for your help.

[Sky21]

Never seen that shade of blue on a SD bezel before, usually they fade to grey. Lovely dial by the way.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Sky21

Never seen that shade of blue on a SD bezel before, usually they fade to grey. Lovely dial by the way.

But old Tudor blue fades to practically white.

[Micha]

I owned a red 1680 where the bezel insert faded to a blue-grey hue...

[swish77]

Bezel insert is most likely Tudor or aftermarket. You could remove the insert from the bezel to know for sure. If it's an original Rolex insert for an SD, it will be black on the back, but I'm fairly certain this will be blue on the back. The font also is different than that on an original bezel insert from that era.

Nothing necessarily wrong with that, as long as the seller wasn't trying to say this was an original insert and the price reflected that fact. Still looks cool.

Here is my (former) blue faded Tudor insert on my 1680 for comparison. (The inserts fit 5512/13, 1680 and 1665 references).

[descartes]

Rail Dial 1665 should also have a silver date wheel. This one appears white in the photos.

[clem2192]

Originally Posted by descartes

Rail Dial 1665 should also have a silver date wheel. This one appears white in the photos.

IMO it's remarkably difficult to photograph the silver date wheel without the correct lighting. I have many times photographed mine which does have a silver date wheel but appears white in the photos. The date wheel on this watch looks fine and does have a silver hue in the second photo.

Regarding the insert I would agree with Swish in that its either a Tudor or aftermarket insert. If you're comfortable removing and refitting the insert (which isn't easy unless you are used to doing it) then do so and check the colour of the back of the insert. If you're not comfortable with removing then it still looks good. You can always source an alternative faded period correct insert in the future if you so wished.

I do have a soft spot for the blueish faded inserts on Subs and SDs.

Lovely watch BTW

[olyvman]

Thanks to all of you for your answers.
I confirm, it's a silver date wheel.
In fact I really like the bluish bezel but I'm really not confortable with the fact that the seller (a famous merchant in FRANCE) confirmed to me that it's a real Rolex insert when I asked him if it's a Tudor one.
It's not very fair and honest.

[clem2192]

Originally Posted by olyvman

Thanks to all of you for your answers.
I confirm, it's a silver date wheel.
In fact I really like the bluish bezel but I'm really not confortable with the fact that the seller (a famous merchant in FRANCE) confirmed to me that it's a real Rolex insert when I asked him if it's a Tudor one.
It's not very fair and honest.

We're not saying it's definitely not a Rolex insert and without further photos will not be able to give a definitive answer.

If you're unsure, get it checked out. If it turns out to be something different then if you're not happy would have grounds to request a refund or potentially haggle the price to reflect this.

The watch itself looks good so I wouldn't let the insert deter me as long as it was reflected in the price. A period correct insert can still be sought.

[olyvman]

The point is that the seller told me that the bezel is bluish because of age and it's a genuine Rolex.
But to me it's not faded (it's too much clean and homogenous), it's a perfect blue bezel, probably a Tudor.

I'll post others pics in the day.

[Stuntpilot]

I had one that had faded to near that color, but a bit lighter.

[Rebel]

I like it.

[olyvman]

Originally Posted by Stuntpilot

I had one that had faded to near that color, but a bit lighter.

Thanks.
It was on a 1665 rail dial also?

[Gina Marie]

That is a mark 3 tudor insert for a blue flake. You can tell since the pearl is almost clear just like some Tudor pearls age.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by olyvman

The point is that the seller told me that the bezel is bluish because of age and it's a genuine Rolex.
But to me it's not faded (it's too much clean and homogenous), it's a perfect blue bezel, probably a Tudor.

I'll post others pics in the day.

Just pop off the bezel. You don't even need to remove the insert, which can be the tricky part. You'll be able to see the color of the back of the insert while it's still in the bezel.

[olyvman]

I do!
It's blue and the merchant told me it's normal cause water go under the bezel and faded up and down sides .....
As hi is a real famous expert about vintage Rolex in Paris, I hope he's right, but I'm really doubtful.

I think to go to Rolex to ask about the originality of the bezel but îm scared about the fact they keep the watch if the bezel is a Tudor one or an aftermarket.
Any advise about an official expert who can certified it, in France?

[swish77]

Originally Posted by olyvman

I do!
It's blue and the merchant told me it's normal cause water go under the bezel and faded up and down sides .....
As hi is a real famous expert about vintage Rolex in Paris, I hope he's right, but I'm really doubtful.

I think to go to Rolex to ask about the originality of the bezel but îm scared about the fact they keep the watch if the bezel is a Tudor one or an aftermarket.
Any advise about an official expert who can certified it, in France?

Sorry, I don't buy the seller's explanation. Blue is blue and black is black. Sure, water over the decades could cause a little discoloration/fading, but the back of a black Rolex insert would not turn completely blue.

For comparison, here's the back of my (former) Tudor blue insert from a mid-'70s "Snowflake", the one that used to be on my 1680 that I posted previously on this thread.

[olyvman]

It looks like the same as mine.
When I told him "I'm almost sure it's a Tudor one" he told me Tudor can't fit with a 1665!
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I sho him the snowflake Tudor insert, and he told me it can fit to a 1680 but never on a 1665.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by olyvman

It looks like the same as mine.
When I told him "I'm almost sure it's a Tudor one" he told me Tudor can't fit with a 1665!
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I sho him the snowflake Tudor insert, and he told me it can fit to a 1680 but never on a 1665.

That's inaccurate. The bezel itself is slightly different for a 1665 compared to a bezel for a 5512/13 and 1680. I believe it's a little thicker. However, the inserts are interchangeable on the vintage Subs/SDs. I've done it myself with my old 1665.

[olyvman]

Thanks

[Gina Marie]

The bezel you have is a blue tudor bezel. Most of the aging comes from exposure to the sun and is amplified with salt water added to the exposure to the sun. The bezel you have is a Tudor blue flake bezel which will fit a 5513, 94110, 94010, 1665, and 1680. They all interchange. The pearl you have on yours is almost clear. A very common trait for tudor pearls. Trust me when I tell you this. It is not faded. It would be hard for sunlight to get underneath your bezel and have a uniform fade throughout the entire bezel....I don't like to disagree with folks since there is always a chance but in this case.....it is a non rolex part. It is a Tudor part. Sorry. You need a mark 3 black bezel.

[Michael M.]

Gina Marie is correct, the bezel fitted to your 1665 is a Tudor bezel insert. You can tell by the paint texture.