Why don't AP's hold their value??

[WWCO]

Hoping someone can answer my question, I can't understand why AP's don't hold their value? Looking at buying a diver, the depreciation doesn't bother me however it just raised the question for me. Many thanks, Jack

[SC11]

Make sure you buy with discount to take some of the hit out

[Mrngrz46]

Which discount is feasible?
15% on 44 mm is good?

[WWCO]

Originally Posted by SC11

Make sure you buy with discount to take some of the hit out

Hi Sam,

My dealer offered me a very good discount but not with finance, is this the norm or should I try and get a discount and be able to finance it?

[SC11]

Originally Posted by WWCO

Hi Sam,

My dealer offered me a very good discount but not with finance, is this the norm or should I try and get a discount and be able to finance it?

Highly doubt you find anywhere offering both as they typically take a hit on the finance if its interest free.

You could look at a interest fee CC if you need to spread the payments if not just buy outright with discount.

[Snow-Dweller]

I had a Diver for just over a year, and flipped it for almost exactly what I paid. As has been said above, make sure you purchase correctly and you'll be ok.

[Rachdanon]

Originally Posted by WWCO

Hoping someone can answer my question, I can't understand why AP's don't hold their value? Looking at buying a diver, the depreciation doesn't bother me however it just raised the question for me. Many thanks, Jack

Maybe the better question is why PP and Rolex hold their value better.

[hugs]

It's a more fashionable brand i.e. they make use of social media / celebrities / limited edition watches to sell watches. Not as much as Hublot of course but it does mean a fair share of fashionable "new money" or young trust funder customers who pay RRP and don't worry about resale value.

Then when Justin Bieber or some basketball player stops wearing the watch they all dump theirs for half of what they paid.

[singe89]

Originally Posted by Rachdanon

Maybe the better question is why PP and Rolex hold their value better.

Not all pateks or rolexes do if you buy them at MSRP. You have to buy right. I look at AP like a precious metal rolex. Buy at the right discount and it should hold value or even gain over longer periods of time. In the end I don't really worry about it. Even if I lose a few $k over 3-5 years of ownership it's worth the enjoyment of owning and wearing the AP. Watches are not investments.

[masterserg]

APs hold just fine. You have to buy at the right price.

[singe89]

Originally Posted by hugs

It's a more fashionable brand i.e. they make use of social media / celebrities / limited edition watches to sell watches. Not as much as Hublot of course but it does mean a fair share of fashionable "new money" or young trust funder customers who pay RRP and don't worry about resale value.

Then when Justin Bieber or some basketball player stops wearing the watch they all dump theirs for half of what they paid.

Same could be said about Rolex. Far more people make a little money and go out and buy a Rolex than they do an AP or probably any other brand. Plenty of pics of celebrities wearing Rolex watches not because they are WIS. AP has had a huge push in the US over the last 5 years and it's paid off for them. Just like Rolex did in the 80s and 90s when every rapper was talking about their "Rollies". I don't love it but it does increasing brand awareness adds value to the brand and their watches. Drake beating Adele's record of most BBMA's and wearing an AP is increasing brand awearness. It's the world we live in now. I think more celebrities are paying atteinon to higher end luxury items (cars, handbags, watches jewelry, etc) they are looking for "more exclusive" luxury items.

I'm just glad AP has mostly put a stop to the endless LEs market saturation. The move the limiting production and distribution though boutiques will stabilize prices although it makes it more expensive for us to get the good pieces.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by singe89

Not all pateks or rolexes do if you buy them at MSRP. You have to buy right. I look at AP like a precious metal rolex. Buy at the right discount and it should hold value or even gain over longer periods of time. In the end I don't really worry about it. Even if I lose a few $k over 3-5 years of ownership it's worth the enjoyment of owning and wearing the AP. Watches are not investments.

Yes, at these higher price points almost no mass produced watches hold their value like say a popular Rolex SS at a third of the price. Only the Nautilus really does but that has been reverse-hyped by Thierry now as he has practically announced this is "the Patek" watch while also really trying to limit supply in an effort to curb this idea.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by singe89

Same could be said about Rolex. Far more people make a little money and go out and buy a Rolex than they do an AP or probably any other brand. Plenty of pics of celebrities wearing Rolex watches not because they are WIS. AP has had a huge push in the US over the last 5 years and it's paid off for them. Just like Rolex did in the 80s and 90s when every rapper was talking about their "Rollies". I don't love it but it does increasing brand awareness adds value to the brand and their watches. Drake beating Adele's record of most BBMA's and wearing an AP is increasing brand awearness. It's the world we live in now. I think more celebrities are paying atteinon to higher end luxury items (cars, handbags, watches jewelry, etc) they are looking for "more exclusive" luxury items.

I'm just glad AP has mostly put a stop to the endless LEs market saturation. The move the limiting production and distribution though boutiques will stabilize prices although it makes it more expensive for us to get the good pieces.

Drake was wearing a RM-11 last edition when I saw him live last year. It looked spectacular even from 7 rows back

AP don't hold their value like Rolex because the market for them is smaller due to several factors... namely higher price and lower brand awareness.

I'm comfortable buying almost any watch provided I can negotiate the price.

[Mrngrz46]

can someone says what measn "buy it right?"
which % discount id "right" for ap 44mm?

I can derive something from c24 of course but is quite hard to get them.
Thanks

[Snow-Dweller]

Originally Posted by Mrngrz46

can someone says what measn "buy it right?"
which % discount id "right" for ap 44mm?

I can derive something from c24 of course but is quite hard to get them.
Thanks

I think you're looking for a solid 20+% discount.

[code.]

Jem7v should be walking in the door any minute now on this topic ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mainewatchman]

Originally Posted by WWCO

Hi Sam,

My dealer offered me a very good discount but not with finance, is this the norm or should I try and get a discount and be able to finance it?

Financing one of these seems mind blowing to me. I get it if you are just taking advantage of 0% financing and still get a discount. If you can't afford to pay upfront then you should not be buying one.

[P2725TMB]

I was told by an independent dealer that generally Rolex holds better resale value because there's a stronger second hand market. In other words more people are ok with buying a cheaper second hand Rolex, whereas AP purchasers are generally more wealthy and want a brand new watch rather than pre-owned. Whether this is true I don't know, but it makes some sense and certainly my APs will (I think) always be new ones, not second hand.

In addition because of the like for like increased price, its a much more limited market.

I'd also say brand awareness makes a difference. You wear an AP and few will know what it is, whereas a Rolex is more of an overt 'look at my success' symbol.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by jhutch

Financing one of these seems mind blowing to me. I get it if you are just taking advantage of 0% financing and still get a discount. If you can't afford to pay upfront then you should not be buying one.

Yes, for sure you should have the funds to purchase outright sitting in your account even if you go the 0% option, can't remember the last time financing was even mentioned in the AP forum.

Originally Posted by P2725TMB

I was told by an independent dealer that generally Rolex holds better resale value because there's a stronger second hand market. In other words more people are ok with buying a cheaper second hand Rolex, whereas AP purchasers are generally more wealthy and want a brand new watch rather than pre-owned. Whether this is true I don't know, but it makes some sense and certainly my APs will (I think) always be new ones, not second hand.

In addition because of the like for like increased price, its a much more limited market.

I'd also say brand awareness makes a difference. You wear an AP and few will know what it is, whereas a Rolex is more of an overt 'look at my success' symbol.

Yes, PM Rolexes and APs are high luxury purchases so naturally not much of a secondary market for them. I bought my first PM watch slightly used at a great price but it never felt quite right, so now I only buy new and unworn.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by singe89

Not all pateks or rolexes do if you buy them at MSRP. You have to buy right. I look at AP like a precious metal rolex. Buy at the right discount and it should hold value or even gain over longer periods of time. In the end I don't really worry about it. Even if I lose a few $k over 3-5 years of ownership it's worth the enjoyment of owning and wearing the AP. Watches are not investments.

+1 That's a great way to put it.

Originally Posted by Snow-Dweller

I think you're looking for a solid 20+% discount.

This is a very fair discount level for most AP's.

Originally Posted by code.

Jem7v should be walking in the door any minute now on this topic ..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was just thinking the same thing. He will come and shed some light on us rookies.

[watchucallit]

Exactly this ....

Originally Posted by Rachdanon

Maybe the better question is why PP and Rolex hold their value better.

[watchucallit]

and exactly this too

Originally Posted by singe89

Not all pateks or rolexes do if you buy them at MSRP. You have to buy right. I look at AP like a precious metal rolex. Buy at the right discount and it should hold value or even gain over longer periods of time. In the end I don't really worry about it. Even if I lose a few $k over 3-5 years of ownership it's worth the enjoyment of owning and wearing the AP. Watches are not investments.

[Likestheshiny]

I was told by an independent dealer that generally Rolex holds better resale value because there's a stronger second hand market.

This isn't an answer -- it's circular. Of course they hold resale value better if there is a stronger second-hand market, because that's partly what it means to have a stronger second-hand market. The question is, why is there a stronger second-hand market?

The answer is complicated, but it largely comes down to a combination of name recognition (more spent on advertising than anyone else), design continuity (an older watch still looks a lot like a new one), rarity at retail (in some places, the used market is the only way to easily find a steel submariner, for example), and the retail price of new models rising much faster than inflation (which inflates the price of used watches in parallel).

[P2725TMB]

Originally Posted by Likestheshiny

This isn't an answer -- it's circular. Of course they hold resale value better if there is a stronger second-hand market, because that's partly what it means to have a stronger second-hand market. The question is, why is there a stronger second-hand market?

The answer is complicated, but it largely comes down to a combination of name recognition (more spent on advertising than anyone else), design continuity (an older watch still looks a lot like a new one), rarity at retail (in some places, the used market is the only way to easily find a steel submariner, for example), and the retail price of new models rising much faster than inflation (which inflates the price of used watches in parallel).

As I say, most people in the market to buy APs are wealthy enough to afford to buy new, not second hand, and prefer not to buy a pre-owned piece. Conversely there's a massive Rolex market who can't afford to (or don't want to) buy new but will happily buy used. Consequently there's a much more buoyant second hand market with relatively higher pricing.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

+1 That's a great way to put it.



This is a very fair discount level for most AP's.





I was just thinking the same thing. He will come and shed some light on us rookies.

Originally Posted by code.

Jem7v should be walking in the door any minute now on this topic ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed. I already gave my 2 cents on the topic. Don't need to add anything else. Do you feel educated?

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by Likestheshiny

This isn't an answer -- it's circular. Of course they hold resale value better if there is a stronger second-hand market, because that's partly what it means to have a stronger second-hand market. The question is, why is there a stronger second-hand market?

The answer is complicated, but it largely comes down to a combination of name recognition (more spent on advertising than anyone else), design continuity (an older watch still looks a lot like a new one), rarity at retail (in some places, the used market is the only way to easily find a steel submariner, for example), and the retail price of new models rising much faster than inflation (which inflates the price of used watches in parallel).

Originally Posted by P2725TMB

As I say, most people in the market to buy APs are wealthy enough to afford to buy new, not second hand, and prefer not to buy a pre-owned piece. Conversely there's a massive Rolex market who can't afford to (or don't want to) buy new but will happily buy used. Consequently there's a much more buoyant second hand market with relatively higher pricing.

I think these 2 nailed it. I'll add that since AP is relatively unknown people who want to show off flock to rolex. They empty their bank accounts just to buy a used one to show "status". Which is why it is widely the best brand that holds value.

I'd say Patek is similar to AP but holds value slightly better because the designs are more traditional/muted.

[P2725TMB]

Rolex is the 'show off ' brand. I suspect 95% or even more of people on the street have never heard of AP and PP etc, but everyone knows Rolex and links it with the owner being successful and wealthy - neither necessarily being the case, of course.

In addition most Rolex watch types are of a similar style and more recognisable as being of that brand, whereas I suspect that if you showed a steel, carbon or ceramic AP to a non-watch enthusiast - particularly on rubber strap - they'd never believe the value attached to it.

[AK797]

In the UK it is either 9 of 10, or 19 or 20, of the best selling watches over £5K are Rolex models, they have an absolute monopoly, all other brands are as dust, and thus we see all their crazy and dictatorial practices of recent times.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by jem7v

Indeed. I already gave my 2 cents on the topic. Don't need to add anything else. Do you feel educated?

Still waiting for your collection photo bud.....

[locutus49]

Your post is perspicacious. And richly insightful.

Originally Posted by Likestheshiny

This isn't an answer -- it's circular. Of course they hold resale value better if there is a stronger second-hand market, because that's partly what it means to have a stronger second-hand market. The question is, why is there a stronger second-hand market?

The answer is complicated, but it largely comes down to a combination of name recognition (more spent on advertising than anyone else), design continuity (an older watch still looks a lot like a new one), rarity at retail (in some places, the used market is the only way to easily find a steel submariner, for example), and the retail price of new models rising much faster than inflation (which inflates the price of used watches in parallel).