So, it is actually really hard to buy a watch online

[RolEdx]

First public post following a number of private messages... I've come to realise that it is near impossible to buy a watch from a (genuine) seller here or in other forums - because I'm new and have a post count of zero (well, 1 after I hit 'submit').

So, here's the question to those who can remember when they first started - how did you find the patience?! How did you manage to wait whilst those watches came and went?

I should clarify there's further complication to my situation. I live in Australia, which makes face-to-face meetings a little difficult given most sellers are located in ConUS. And I also want to pay with my credit card, either directly or via PayPal (because my credit card provides extended warranty, protection against accidental damage, loss, etc.).

The problem is 'trust' - and I've been wondering how one might be able to establish that without the need for a 'decent post count' (most posts I've come across are just chatter anyway - no offence - AND that can be easily done by someone who really wanted to scam sellers). I've already come across one such user (PM me if you wish to know who it is) - that user has hundreds of posts - but I was still able to pick up that he was a fraud.

How about, instead of relying on post counts and references, we started leveraging established social presence to verify buyer/seller's identities? E.g. Facebook, LinkedIn, eBay, etc.

What do you all think?

Cheers.

[zama]

Surprised it is hard to buy, understand why it would be hard to sell, put your money up and most sellers should have little reason to sell to you...... I concur selling is much harder. Welcome to TRF by the way.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by zama

Surprised it is hard to buy, understand why it would be hard to sell, put your money up and most sellers should have little reason to sell to you...... I concur selling is much harder. Welcome to TRF by the way.

Because he only wants to use PayPal. No protection for the seller.

[RolEdx]

Wow, thanks for the warm welcome everyone.

Just to clarify - the reason why I prefer to use my credit card is because of the protection it offers (independent of PayPal) e.g. accidental loss, damage, theft, and extended warranty over the manufacturer's. I'd be happy to pay with CC directly without PayPal if the buyer has the ability to process that.

For the record, I do have a publicly visible eBay profile that shows that I've been a member since 2001 and have a 100% record.

I'll check out the sellers mentioned above. Have already been in touch with DavidSW previously but he had sold the watch I wanted.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Cheers.

[Tony64]

I agree that post count alone can be an unreliable indicator.

My suggestion, if you want to use CC, is to buy new from an AD. Ocassionally a seller will take PayPal but it puts all the risk on the seller. Consider buying from one of the established "trusted sellers" and wire transfer will be safe.

[mfer]

If you buy from one of the majors you need not worry about trust from them. Thanh, David, Tony, etc have exemplary customer service. If you wire them money you will get your watch. You'll have to pay your import taxes being in Australia.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by mfer

If you buy from one of the majors you need not worry about trust from them. Thanh, David, Tony, etc have exemplary customer service. If you wire them money you will get your watch. You'll have to pay your import taxes being in Australia.

He wants to PayPal, which suuuuuuucks for the seller. None of those guys are going to do an international paypal deal.

[PJ S]

^
Paypal can still be used via a CC, only the option Friends & Family needs to be selected.
This gets around Paypal’s protection that the seller would be concerned about, but should still let the buy avail of his CC’s extra benefits.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by PJ S

^
Paypal can still be used via a CC, only the option Friends & Family needs to be selected.
This gets around Paypal’s protection that the seller would be concerned about, but should still let the buy avail of his CC’s extra benefits.

I'm not sure that CC points are the OP's only interest - I assumed he was looking for buyer protection as well.

F&F is an option, but provides no buyer protection and in that way is the same as wire. That issue aside, it's not exactly the most ethical way to make a purchase as it also deliberately and falsely circumvents the PayPal fee system. That's how PayPal makes money, right? I'd think that if a trusted seller started taking large and regular payments by this method, their account would get flagged. Best to play by the rules...

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I'm not sure that CC points are the OP's only interest - I assumed he was looking for buyer protection as well.

F&F is an option, but provides no buyer protection and in that way is the same as wire. That issue aside, it's not exactly the most ethical way to make a purchase as it also deliberately and falsely circumvents the PayPal fee system. That's how PayPal makes money, right? I'd think that if a trusted seller started taking large and regular payments by this method, their account would get flagged. Best to play by the rules...

PP ain't stupid, F&F doesn't circumvent anything - Payer elects to pay the PP fee on top of the amt sent.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by tamiya

PP ain't stupid, F&F doesn't circumvent anything - Payer elects to pay the PP fee on top of the amt sent.

Since when?

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Since when?

Since everytime I PP F&F? I use it on occasion for PPing ppl I know, if I want to send them exactly $XX and not hit them with PP fee I elect to pay the fee as surcharge at my end.

Could be some difference for recipient between private or biz a/Cs too.

[RedwoodDweller]

Originally Posted by tamiya

PP ain't stupid, F&F doesn't circumvent anything - Payer elects to pay the PP fee on top of the amt sent.

I send $$ monthly to my sister via PayPal friends & family and pay no fees. Just FYI.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by RedwoodDweller

I send $$ monthly to my sister via PayPal friends & family and pay no fees. Just FYI.

Funny it hasn't shown up yet

[dmash]

Originally Posted by RedwoodDweller

I send $$ monthly to my sister via PayPal friends & family and pay no fees. Just FYI.

Funded with your bank account or PayPal balance, and not a credit card

[PJ S]

[Already answered above, no need for repetition.]

[dmash]

Originally Posted by PJ S

^
Paypal can still be used via a CC, only the option Friends & Family needs to be selected.
This gets around Paypal’s protection that the seller would be concerned about, but should still let the buy avail of his CC’s extra benefits.

This is commonly thrown around and is incorrect. If the buyer pays with friends and family and uses a credit card, he can STILL report to his credit card company for fraud, unauthorized transaction, gift sent by mistake, etc etc and they will 99% of the time reverse the transaction. What makes this actually even WORSE for a seller is that with friends and family they have ZERO paypal seller protection against these claims as it was a 'gift' to begin with and you're not losing anything if you didn't receive the payment anyways.

Just clearing this up as I know multiple people who have been burned this way. IT is NOT safe for sellers to accept friends and family if the purchaser uses their credit card. ONLY if they use their paypal balance.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by dmash

This is commonly thrown around and is incorrect. If the buyer pays with friends and family and uses a credit card, he can STILL report to his credit card company for fraud, unauthorized transaction, gift sent by mistake, etc etc and they will 99% of the time reverse the transaction. What makes this actually even WORSE for a seller is that with friends and family they have ZERO paypal seller protection against these claims as it was a 'gift' to begin with and you're not losing anything if you didn't receive the payment anyways.

Just clearing this up as I know multiple people who have been burned this way. IT is NOT safe for sellers to accept friends and family if the purchaser uses their credit card. ONLY if they use their paypal balance.

Good point. I would only use gift for small purchases, under £100.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by dmash

This is commonly thrown around and is incorrect. If the buyer pays with friends and family and uses a credit card, he can STILL report to his credit card company for fraud, unauthorized transaction, gift sent by mistake, etc etc and they will 99% of the time reverse the transaction. What makes this actually even WORSE for a seller is that with friends and family they have ZERO paypal seller protection against these claims as it was a 'gift' to begin with and you're not losing anything if you didn't receive the payment anyways.

Just clearing this up as I know multiple people who have been burned this way. IT is NOT safe for sellers to accept friends and family if the purchaser uses their credit card. ONLY if they use their paypal balance.

You would be committing fraud yourself if you knowingly and voluntarily sent the money to a "friend or family member" when it was actually a transaction and then reported it as an unauthorized transaction, gift sent by mistake, etc etc as you say when none of those reasons are true.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

You would be committing fraud yourself if you knowingly and voluntarily sent the money to a "friend or family member" when it was actually a transaction and then reported it as an unauthorized transaction, gift sent by mistake, etc etc as you say when none of those reasons are true.

You're completely misunderstanding. I'm stating this because it can potentially happen to a seller. You think a scammer has a moral compass who cares about this? Get real. These are the same people who will get their money back from PayPal by claiming an empty box, etc. when you buy and sell enough through PayPal you see this stuff. It's ridiculous. And PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer. *I'm not using this as an example of something I would personally do, I'm saying there are plenty of people who do it.

I've looked into this thoroughly because I got burned a few times and wanted to 100% try to avoid this at all costs. There are literal FORUMS online created to give advice to one another on how to con online sellers. You think their credit card is going to argue with them when they ship it to another address under another name, use a VPN so it shows like the PayPal payment was sent from another country, etc? They'll have a watch, and their money back, zero issue.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by dmash

You're completely misunderstanding. I'm stating this because it can potentially happen to a seller. You think a scammer has a moral compass who cares about this? Get real. These are the same people who will get their money back from PayPal by claiming an empty box, etc. when you buy and sell enough through PayPal you see this stuff. It's ridiculous. And PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer. *I'm not using this as an example of something I would personally do, I'm saying there are plenty of people who do it.



I've looked into this thoroughly because I got burned a few times and wanted to 100% try to avoid this at all costs. There are literal FORUMS online created to give advice to one another on how to con online sellers. You think their credit card is going to argue with them when they ship it to another address under another name, use a VPN so it shows like the PayPal payment was sent from another country, etc? They'll have a watch, and their money back, zero issue.

You're completely right. I didn't look at it from a scammers perspective since I'm not a scammer

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by dmash

You're completely misunderstanding. I'm stating this because it can potentially happen to a seller. You think a scammer has a moral compass who cares about this? Get real. These are the same people who will get their money back from PayPal by claiming an empty box, etc. when you buy and sell enough through PayPal you see this stuff. It's ridiculous. And PayPal will ALWAYS side with the buyer. *I'm not using this as an example of something I would personally do, I'm saying there are plenty of people who do it.

I've looked into this thoroughly because I got burned a few times and wanted to 100% try to avoid this at all costs. There are literal FORUMS online created to give advice to one another on how to con online sellers. You think their credit card is going to argue with them when they ship it to another address under another name, use a VPN so it shows like the PayPal payment was sent from another country, etc? They'll have a watch, and their money back, zero issue.

If we’re going to play out the ‘empty box’ scenario, then the easy way to protect yourself is to take photos of the watch at stages of it being packed up and addressed, as well as ensuring it’s insured for its full value with the courier.
Any claim by the buyer that his CC was somehow compromised, will result in his issuer carrying the loss, not the seller.
If he tries to claim through Paypal, then the photos and emails are the proof that a transaction was conducted, and it goes without saying that only an idiot leaves money sitting in their account, rather than removing it immediately.
It should also go without saying that you do NOT allow Paypal to use your bank account for anything other than depositing funds into – I know there are no fees when paying for things by allowing them to extract funds from your bank account, but it negates the safety net of making Paypal recoup what they believe is theirs, forcing you to chase them for a refund.

[Knappo 1307]

Being new to the forum, and insisting on using Paypal is your issue. You haven't, at least here, established any point of reference for the seller. If you have had past dealings with sellers on other forums, or a good history on eBay, and can prove they are viable references paypal may work. Unless you have any history, anywhere, a seller will tend to pass on paypal. Too many scams and bad stories regarding accepting paypal from a non-established buyer. Like someone has said earlier, if you want to use a CC your best bet would be a A.D.

[mfer]

You claim the issue is trust. Trust the majors and you'll be fine. If you can only buy a luxury watch with credit I don't think it is a good idea.

[lapince]

Of course post count is important, when I hit the 50k mark intend to "sell" a 30-50k watch to one of you, that I will buy for 200 bucks

Like was said, get from the 3-5 really big trusted sellers here, I have a great one in France, but I see you are in Australia, so I guess import taxes are bad, I will tell you that if the watch is pricey, 10k or more, taking a one week vacation and getting the watch on that occasion is what I would do, if not then face to face, just get the watch certified at the AD, some fakes are really good, other than that don't know. Good luck and welcome

[Chewbacca]

I'm not surprised but kudos for the post. You've got 2 and just joined.

[AK797]

They are trusted and known, you are not, so bank transfer is the only way to go. Paypal and credit card is only for well known buyers, and having a high post count and contributing regularly makes that more likely.

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by RolEdx

What do you all think?

Whereabouts in oz are you located?

There's fair number of local options if you're in big city.

[RolEdx]

@tamiya, I'm in Melbourne, but there's no stock and prices in Melbourne/Australia are terrible compared to the US in general.

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by RolEdx

@tamiya, I'm in Melbourne, but there's no stock and prices in Melbourne/Australia are terrible compared to the US in general.

Well... that depends where you look, what you're looking for & what circles you hang about in

If you're after something "high demand' then yeah, I doubt if it'll be any easier finding it on this giant island vs rest of the world. Yeah our local RRPs are crazy high and discounts aren't as common.

But if you know exactly what you want, there's some agents around that can keep an eye out for you.

Otoh... shipping anything decent in will pose GST implications. (So does buying from local dealers, whenever they've bought stock from a private seller). Whereas airfare to Asia or HongKong might only be $1k or hey you could jump on a Jetstar to USA for $1500? If you haven't got rellos who regularly travel for biz or VFR that is.