Question on ROO movement

[jem7v]

So I noticed something strange with my watch the day I got it. I posted in another thread about it, but I'm not sure if this is normal or not.

When the watch is completely drained of power, I literally have to shake it maybe 5-10 times back and forth before the second hand starts moving. Whereas on my omega seamaster for example, if I tap that watch, the slight movement of the rotor is enough to get it running.

First I thought I had an issue with the power reserve, but I tested it, and it pretty much lasted 50 hours. Even with me running the chrono for about 20-30 minutes 3x a day.

I called the new york boutique and they told me it's a misconception that automatic watches get charged from movement of the rotor. They said that is only to maintain the charge, and that to actually fully charge it, requires winding the crown.

Is this actually the case? I don't recall having this issue with my 44mm ceramic, albeit I didn't really inspect it like my ROO.

So I'm wondering if anyone who has a ROO that is dead, shake it 2-3x and see if the seconds hand starts moving. Or if you have to wind it too. For instance just the act of setting the time and screwing the crown back in gives it ample power.

Anyways, I sent an email to Betsy at APSC, but I'd be interested to know what others think.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jem7v

I called the new york boutique and they told me it's a misconception that automatic watches get charged from movement of the rotor. They said that is only to maintain the charge, and that to actually fully charge it, requires winding the crown.
.

Not true, a watch winder is the easiest example to debunk that as it mimics wrist movement by winding the rotor and does not require manual winding.

If you put a watch on a winder that has stopped due to power reserve being exhausted it will get fully wound on a winder. Keep it on for a few days, take it off and set it down it will run for the full 50 hours (or whatever PR the specific watch in question has) guaranteed. So a winder does "charge" it, not just maintain current level of power.

Ive done it with my AP's so i know its true for the brand, but the easiest way to tell generally is with a watch with a power reserve indicator. It will gradually go up by being left on a winder and not stay the same. Im not wearing my big pilot very much lately and keep it on a winder for storage. When the power reserve gets to 1 day i turn the winder on and let if cycle through for a day or two and as soon as the PR gets back up to 7 days i turn the winder off and let it sit for another six days before repeating the cycle again. I never manually wind it.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Not true, a watch winder is the easiest example to debunk that as it mimics wrist movement by winding the rotor and does not require manual winding.

If you put a watch on a winder that has stopped due to power reserve being exhausted it will get fully wound on a winder. Keep it on for a few days, take it off and set it down it will run for the full 50 hours (or whatever PR the specific watch in question has) guaranteed. So a winder does "charge" it, not just maintain current level of power.

Ive done it with my AP's so i know its true for the brand, but the easiest way to tell generally is with a watch with a power reserve indicator. It will gradually go up by being left on a winder and not stay the same. Im not wearing my big pilot very much lately and keep it on a winder for storage. When the power reserve gets to 1 day i turn the winder on and let if cycle through for a day or two and as soon as the PR gets back up to 7 days i turn the winder off and let it sit for another six days before repeating the cycle again. I never manually wind it.

Well maybe because a winder is constantly turning the rotor so it's the equivalent of winding it? But maybe just wrist motion as sporadic as it is, is not enough? I'm trying to give AP the benefit of the doubt . I'm wondering what other people think about this.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jem7v

Well maybe because a winder is constantly turning the rotor so it's the equivalent of winding it? But maybe just wrist motion as sporadic as it is, is not enough? I'm trying to give AP the benefit of the doubt . I'm wondering what other people think about this.

a winder, your wrist movement, and manual winding all does the same thing so they are all equivalent to each other.

Winders don't move constantly. Mine only runs for 1 minute every hour and then stops. As long as you are active enough to spin the rotor while wearing it, you will wind it yourself the same as if it was on a winder.

[improviz]

I've noticed that some of the watches I have (Omega for sure, also the Glashutte and the RO) will start moving practically as soon as they are picked up even after sitting for some time and long since stopped, while others (the Rolexes) take a lot more persuasion.

Not a really large concern as all of the manufacturers tell you to wind before wearing, and I always do this. And there is good reason for this: you should always wind before wearing a dead watch as it takes the wrist movement some hours to charge it up, and it won't be as accurate when it's "near death" so give it at least 20 winds or so before wearing, regardless of whether a few shakes start it winding or not.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by improviz

I've noticed that some of the watches I have (Omega for sure, also the Glashutte and the RO) will start moving practically as soon as they are picked up even after sitting for some time and long since stopped, while others (the Rolexes) take a lot more persuasion.

Not a really large concern as all of the manufacturers tell you to wind before wearing, and I always do this. And there is good reason for this: you should always wind before wearing a dead watch as it takes the wrist movement some hours to charge it up, and it won't be as accurate when it's "near death" so give it at least 20 winds or so before wearing, regardless of whether a few shakes start it winding or not.

But see if your RO does that, my ROO should as well. It's the same base movement.

[improviz]

Much ado over nothing. Perhaps you should consider quartz.

[SC11]

All depends on the level of activity.

I'll be honest non of my watches have started ticking from being completely discharged with just a tap or unscrewing of the crown!

So I wouldn't be worrying just yet, you've checked the power reserve so now fully wind it and wear it, if it stops during wear or left in the safe overnight I would have it checked out.

Also not sure if it was you or another member commenting on your posts about wear but do you take it off the minute you get home? What I mean is say you come home from work put it on and go out for a meal then as soon as you return home off it goes back in the safe, this sort of wear would require topping up the mainspring with some manual winding on a regular basis.

Just some thoughts before you go sending it off

[AshAP]

I wouldn't be worrying about this, maybe you should be wearing it more so that the power reserve is always keeping the watch running.


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[AK797]

I wear all mine in rotation and most of my watches I just pick up and shake a little on my wrist and they get going. I only wind if I haven't worn for a week.

[HL65]

To think all these years I have simply wound my watches, set the time and wore them. Seemed easy enough and never a problem. Hmmmm....

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by HL65

To think all these years I have simply wound my watches, set the time and wore them. Seemed easy enough and never a problem. Hmmmm....

30-40 turns, set the time and date and you're off. It's an enjoyable experience.

[SC11]

Originally Posted by GB-man

30-40 turns, set the time and date and you're off. It's an enjoyable experience.

Snap

To be honest I've never really thought about it just take watch out of safe good few winds then set time and date and off I go.

A collection, no winder and occasional wear leads to all my watches requiring this when taken out of the safe it's just a natural thing before putting them on, then they stay on my wrist until going back in the safe and the cycle then repeats.

Simples...

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by SC11

All depends on the level of activity.

I'll be honest non of my watches have started ticking from being completely discharged with just a tap or unscrewing of the crown!

So I wouldn't be worrying just yet, you've checked the power reserve so now fully wind it and wear it, if it stops during wear or left in the safe overnight I would have it checked out.

Also not sure if it was you or another member commenting on your posts about wear but do you take it off the minute you get home? What I mean is say you come home from work put it on and go out for a meal then as soon as you return home off it goes back in the safe, this sort of wear would require topping up the mainspring with some manual winding on a regular basis.

Just some thoughts before you go sending it off

Well that is good to know that it takes some winding to start up your watches. I would wear it, and if I was going out, I'd keep it on. Otherwise when I get home the watch comes off.

Originally Posted by SC11

Snap

To be honest I've never really thought about it just take watch out of safe good few winds then set time and date and off I go.

A collection, no winder and occasional wear leads to all my watches requiring this when taken out of the safe it's just a natural thing before putting them on, then they stay on my wrist until going back in the safe and the cycle then repeats.

Simples...

Originally Posted by GB-man

30-40 turns, set the time and date and you're off. It's an enjoyable experience.

Originally Posted by HL65

To think all these years I have simply wound my watches, set the time and wore them. Seemed easy enough and never a problem. Hmmmm....

Originally Posted by AK797

I wear all mine in rotation and most of my watches I just pick up and shake a little on my wrist and they get going. I only wind if I haven't worn for a week.

Originally Posted by AshAP

I wouldn't be worrying about this, maybe you should be wearing it more so that the power reserve is always keeping the watch running.


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Everyone's comments make me laugh. Alright so it seems there is no issue with the watch. That is good to know. I was just slightly worried only because I didn't recall my last ROO behaving this way. But like I said, I didn't really expect it as much as I did with this one. I just set the time and slapped the watch on my wrist. I never actually wound it though, and it always kept time. Well I should say I never wound it pass the winding that happens with just setting the time and date, and screwing the crown back in.

But just that little winding, and wearing it every day was enough to keep it fully charged every day. It would die around 2-3 days if I were to put it down. Probably I'll wear this for a couple days and see if it dies prematurely.

[jem7v]

So APSC doesn't think anything is wrong with it. They said if the watch is completely dead, proper thing to do is wind it first. They said movement of the wrist will in no way get the power up properly. It should be wound 40x.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by jem7v

So APSC doesn't think anything is wrong with it. They said if the watch is completely dead, proper thing to do is wind it first. They said movement of the wrist will in no way get the power up properly. It should be wound 40x.

Quelle surprise


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[PJ S]

Originally Posted by jem7v

When the watch is completely drained of power, I literally have to shake it maybe 5-10 times back and forth before the second hand starts moving. Whereas on my omega seamaster for example, if I tap that watch, the slight movement of the rotor is enough to get it running.

Your bewilderment is nothing more than an observation of differences in winding efficiency – not all automatic watch designs are created equally.

Originally Posted by jem7v

I called the new york boutique and they told me it's a misconception that automatic watches get charged from movement of the rotor. They said that is only to maintain the charge, and that to actually fully charge it, requires winding the crown.

Take what sales people say with a hefty dose of salt – more often than not they’re talking out of their rear ends.
Wrist activity will dictate the amount of power reserve the watch retains or attains whilst worn. The more active you are, the more the rotor spins, the more the mainspring is wound, until it slips in the barrel, preventing overwinding.
Again, this is where various movements differ – some will be fine for regular manual winding, as their crown stem and the keyless components have been designed for such, whereas others are simply not up to the task.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by jem7v

But see if your RO does that, my ROO should as well. It's the same base movement.

Whilst both share the same 3120 base, the chronograph module on the ROOC obviously causes extra drag (friction) which results in the lower PR of 50 hours, as opposed to over 60 hours.
Common sense dictates that the mainspring needs more winds to have sufficient torque to overcome the additional stiction present.

[P2725TMB]

Originally Posted by jem7v

So APSC doesn't think anything is wrong with it. They said if the watch is completely dead, proper thing to do is wind it first. They said movement of the wrist will in no way get the power up properly. It should be wound 40x.

Exactly. Its not rocket science. Personally if they are 'dead' I wind my watches 40 times-ish, put it on and that's it, it runs no problem, the rotor keeping it 'charged'. But it will require wrist movement - if you're not wearing it or spend a lot of time not moving its not winding.

Otherwise as suggested, put it on a winder if you want to avoid having to start afresh each time. My RG Chrono has been sitting on its winder unworn for over a week now and is still going - its not been worn as I'm still in the excited period with my new YM2.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Whilst both share the same 3120 base, the chronograph module on the ROOC obviously causes extra drag (friction) which results in the lower PR of 50 hours, as opposed to over 60 hours.
Common sense dictates that the mainspring needs more winds to have sufficient torque to overcome the additional stiction present.

Stiction, new word learnt, cheers.