AP AD Vs Grey Dealer

[LAFLARE]

I have been waiting quite a while for a piece I recently put a full deposit down from an AP AD. I was originally promised it would be here within 1-8 weeks once the full deposit was made. Seeing as how it has now been 10 weeks since the date of deposit, I have been constantly questioning the validity of the promise. Playing the waiting game makes me look into other outlets and now I am wondering what are the pros and cons of purchasing from an AD vs a trusted grey dealer.

From what I can come up with:

Pros of obtaining a piece from an AD:
-Specific watch will be 100% original, no chance of an aftermarket part swap
-Warranty from AD to last 5 years (since 2017)

Pros of obtaining a piece from a grey dealer:
-Don't have to wait for the watch as it may be in stock
-Price may be lower than an AD since they are more willing to play ball

Between the points that I have listed, is there anything that I have missed? Although I noted that the warranty may last for 5 years from an AD, if purchased within time from a grey dealer, the warranty should still be present. As far as the price of the purchase goes, TS's are usually all more likely to go lower than the deal being offered at the AD. I can see how the AD experience must be nice, but then again it may be a substantial difference in the price. Given that people will note that going with an AD will create relationships that will eventually help you get a "rare" or more difficult to obtain piece given after buying 3-5 watches from the AD, wouldn't one have paid the difference already if deciding to purchase the watch for resell later on with a grey dealer?

All these thoughts have surfaced since waiting for my watch and sometimes I am wondering why I didn't buy it off the grey market. Although price was very similar new piece AD vs new piece TS, I would have it in hand by now.

Any logical thoughts to clear these ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[tyler1980]

i wouldn't buy grey period, under any circumstances. I willingly pay more from an AD.

Buying grey only makes the problem of availability worse from AD's. The watch you want isnt available in an AD at the moment but "readily available" from a grey dealer and that will be the case as long as the grey market exists. If you buy grey the cycle continues. Sometimes you have to take a stand and say enough is enough and not patronize dealers who are a big reason you can't find the watch you want from an authorized source in the first place.

/rant



BTW if its the RG 44 still that you are after they are not that hard to find from an AD. Maybe the US is worse but there are almost always one at an AD here in London. Call the AD in houston would be my suggestion. They seem to have good selection every time i have been there, and will probably ship to you and you can save on sales tax.

[LAFLARE]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i wouldn't buy grey period, under any circumstances. I willingly pay more from an AD.

Buying grey only makes the problem of availability worse from AD's. The watch you want isnt available in an AD at the moment but "readily available" from a grey dealer and that will be the case as long as the grey market exists. If you buy grey the cycle continues. Sometimes you have to take a stand and say enough is enough and not patronize dealers who are a big reason you can't find the watch you want from an authorized source in the first place.

/rant



BTW if its the RG 44 still that you are after they are not that hard to find from an AD. Maybe the US is worse but there are almost always one at an AD here.

I agree with stopping the vicious cycle and I am all for it as obvious from my decision from purchasing with an AD, but it seems like we are greatly outnumbered by this ideaology.

Yes, it is the same RG 44 I have been constantly dreaming about at night. My specific contact from the AD was overseas in Asia for a business trip and he sent me two videos of the RG 44: one in Korea and one in HK. I am wondering if we really do get such little stock of them in the US. The AD I made purchase from was a couple states away and not my local AP AD. My local AD did not even have a classic or novelty 44 RG in stock.

[MerrittM3]

When investing this much money in a watch its outrageous to consider going gray market. Like you said, who knows where that watch has been, if any parts were removed/replaced etc.

Always go with an AD. If your AD doesn't have it in stock, call another.

I called every AD in the US to try and find a "better deal" on my AP ROO Chrono Navy. Most didnt even have a ROO let along the one i wanted.. these watches are very hot and dont last long.

I know a great AD in Greenwich, CT who has a large selection in stock. Also great pricing.

[AshAP]

Buying from an AD gives you peace of mind at the very least. I don't understand why people buy from the grey market on a purchase of this value.

An AD has been validated by AP so that you don't have to worry about doing business with them.


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[SMD]

Saved 10k on mine buying from DAVIDSW. No AD would come close. I buy from lots of places - depends on the piece and pricing.

[AK797]

AP are tightening supply like everyone else on their popular models so I'd give them a bit more time, but keep in touch and them under pressure.

[Peterandwatches]

I would only buy grey, and I have 100% peace of mind with Davidsw.

No interest in protecting these watch companies with more money than god, especially when their own issues with supply and pricing, have created this secondary market in the first place.

[HL65]

I buy all of my AP’s from Thanh Do aka Takuya and they come brand new from AD and for much better price. So for me easy decision...Save money, deal with great guy and get brand new watch with warranty.

[Jay (Eire)]

I'm really surprised with the comments re 'never buy grey', 'swapped parts' and so on. Who are you talking to?

For me, I'll buy wherever the price is right. When it's close I'm happy to pay more to have my name on the papers.

[GB-man]

I usually buy from Thanh Do unless an AD has one for a good price. Often it depends on availability as well. If the ADs can’t come up with a watch, like my 15202 I work with Thanh and he can find it

[ezinhk]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

I'm really surprised with the comments re 'never buy grey', 'swapped parts' and so on. Who are you talking to?

For me, I'll buy wherever the price is right. When it's close I'm happy to pay more to have my name on the papers.

Agree x 2

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

I'm really surprised with the comments re 'never buy grey', 'swapped parts' and so on. Who are you talking to?

For me, I'll buy wherever the price is right. When it's close I'm happy to pay more to have my name on the papers.

its just principle and preference for many. I don't look down on anyone for buying grey, but i don't like it, as i don't like watches I want to acquire being siphoned away from authorized sources where sometimes the only option would be grey as the AD's stock has already been pillaged. In that case, i don't get the watch.

Its a luxury good and i don't want a watch purchased in India or the Caribbean, or some other random location to some random person and then moved halfway around the world in unclear circumstances for me to then buy it from another middle man who may or may not be honest. To me a luxury good can't be used and i can't be the second owner, period.

Similarly, i wouldn't buy a Burberry trench coat out of some guys car in a parking lot regardless if it was real or not. Luxury goods to me are not that. Im sure there are many fine grey dealers, but they walk a fine line between legitimate and sketchy due to where their business is positioned.

[HK Islandboy]

The APs I’ve sought out and bought to date have been discontinued models - so all purchased from grey dealers or individuals (and i don’t stay awake at night worried about them being chock full of fake parts!)

The next AP on my radar is a blue-faced ROC. Given the not great difference in price between boutiques and grey dealers, I’ll likely go boutique for this one

[LAFLARE]

Thanks for all the responses. It has been very helpful and I hope others can use this information as well when hunting for their future AP

[Xerxes77]

Deal with grey market!
More good price and you can buy if you want a new watch never worn!

[Chary]

I’ve done both, grey dealer and Authorized dealers. I think it just depends on how well you know your sellers. I see no point on paying 10-15K extra to have the same watch, a watch that I might not keep for more than a year or two. But I also buy from my AD to keep the relationship going. I walked into the LV AP Boutique wearing a AP RB2, and the girl thought it was a Hublot!!! are you f.. kidding me!!????? My 7yr old new more of AP than that lady!My Trusted grey dealers are ALL more educated in the watch world than some of the people that work at some of these AD’s, they are watch fanatics as I am!!! I rather deal with people that understand and share the same passion that I have for watches.

Here are some options and I’m sure everybody will agree that they are all Stand up guys and trusted sellers, I personally have done over $100K of watch deals with every single one one of these guys, you can trust them blindfolded;

-Tony G ( watchexplorer )
- David SW (davidsw )
- Brian G ( briboxer )
- Patrick A ( ocrolexguy, tomorrow I’m picking up a watch that I bought from him for the wife, a 5min conversation while I was drunk lol (she took advantage of me) this past saturday during dinner, lol thats how much I trust him, if he says it’s prefect it is!! )
-Micheal Russo ( Micheal Russo )
-Lawrence B ( Lawrenceb )

I’ll vouche for any of the above. They are all been around for years and literally grew up with me as part of the watch world. Many of my friends have done business with Than (akatakuya) I have not have the pleasure of doing business with him but I do talk to Than once in a while since we both share the same passion for exotic cars. I might
just buy a Gshock from him to say I’ve done biz w him.. lol

Anyways hopefully this helps.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Chary

I walked into the LV AP Boutique wearing a AP RB2, and the girl thought it was a Hublot!!! are you f.. kidding me!!????? My 7yr old new more of AP than that lady!

[Chary]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

I'm not kidding!!! last month at the Rolex Boutique in South Coast a sales rep while talking about watches, says - Audemars are also nice watches I like that one, ( my new RG 44) how much do they go for ? $20-25K ? I should have said Yep!!! just like my blue 5711 goes for 18-20K...

[Marciano490]

I've usually gone with greys, but with AP closing a ton of ADs and supply potentially tightening, I'm wondering whether it might be better to start establishing relationships. It'd be nice to get a ss openwork for under 65k because the boutique knows my name.

[Uros]

Have bought my offshore new from grey with full warranty which I immediately registered on AP site and Jumbo from AD (this was pure coincidence but giving Jumbo sentimental value made sense to have full experience). Nothing wrong with grey if they are trusted. Guess you are not subsidizing huge rent costs of AD etc...

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Uros

Have bought my offshore new from grey with full warranty which I immediately registered on AP site and Jumbo from AD (this was pure coincidence but giving Jumbo sentimental value made sense to have full experience). Nothing wrong with grey if they are trusted. Guess you are not subsidizing huge rent costs of AD etc...

True but i caution about "showrooming". Using a brick and morter store to look and buy online instead.

The city where i grew up literally has 1/2 the stores it used to as more and more people make large purchases online. It was great when they could go into a physical store to see the product even if they didn't buy it there. Now they can't do that as the stores are all gone. Everything is now bought sight unseen from the internet, and im not kidding.

[Uros]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

True but i caution about "showrooming". Using a brick and morter store to look and buy online instead.

The city where i grew up literally has 1/2 the stores it used to as more and more people make large purchases online. It was great when they could go into a physical store to see the product even if they didn't buy it there. Now they can't do that as the stores are all gone. Everything is now bought sight unseen from the internet, and im not kidding.

Need best from both worlds probably...wouldn't buy watch for sure without trying it first so showrooms definitely necessary...

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Uros

Need best from both worlds probably...wouldn't buy watch for sure without trying it first so showrooms definitely necessary...

yep, its a double edged sword. You need real physical stores but there is an obvious appeal to saving money online. The balance is hard to find for a lot of retail sectors these days.

[LAFLARE]

Is there a flagship boutique or museum where most AP models can be found and viewed? Coming from a US resident, I'm facing towards Europe for such a sight. That would be an experience and a sight to see

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by LAFLARE

Is there a flagship boutique or museum where most AP models can be found and viewed? Coming from a US resident, I'm facing towards Europe for such a sight. That would be an experience and a sight to see

No and I asked AP why there isnt. Like how Patek has all models on display in geneva so at least you can see them and try them on even if you can't buy them. They looked at me like i was crazy and said they don't make enough watches for them to have "display models" which is BS as Patek production is very similar.

Patek even had all the popular models + the 2017 new releases in london this year traveling around the country to view and try on. Its the only time i have ever seen a 5712, 5711, 5167, 5164, 5168, 5524 all in the same room. AP should do it.

[LAFLARE]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

No and I asked AP why there isnt. Like how Patek has all models on display in geneva so at least you can see them and try them on even if you can't buy them. They looked at me like i was crazy and said they don't make enough watches for them to have "display models" which is BS as Patek production is very similar.

Patek even had all the popular models + the 2017 new releases in london this year traveling around the country to view and try on. Its the only time i have ever seen a 5712, 5711, 5167, 5164, 5168, 5524 all in the same room. AP should do it.

That sounds amazing. I'll have to check it out sometime when I get the chance. Is this the Patek boutique in Geneva? I'm illustrating a three story boutique in my mind with absolutely gorgeous showcases..would definitely be nice to try on a piece or two..or to see how many I can fit from my wrist up to my elbow

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by LAFLARE

That sounds amazing. I'll have to check it out sometime when I get the chance. Is this the Patek boutique in Geneva? I'm illustrating a three story boutique in my mind with absolutely gorgeous showcases..would definitely be nice to try on a piece or two..or to see how many I can fit from my wrist up to my elbow

ive never been to the salon in Geneva but im planning to see it soon. If the models had not come to london this year i would have gone to see the collection in geneva but didn't have to.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

ive never been to the salon in Geneva but im planning to see it soon. If the models had not come to london this year i would have gone to see the collection in geneva but didn't have to.

I'm going to Geneva in January. Definitely on my list of places to go..

[P2725TMB]

Originally Posted by LAFLARE

Is there a flagship boutique or museum where most AP models can be found and viewed? Coming from a US resident, I'm facing towards Europe for such a sight. That would be an experience and a sight to see

At the factory they have a 'safe room' that has a huge number of models. Not all, but a lot. But that, of course, is at Le Brassus and I'm not sure of the situ about accessing it. Its a closing (very soft sell) part of the factory tour but with prior arrangement perhaps might be accessible on a dedicated basis. I don't know. Could be worth a call...