Zenith or in-house movement

[MAINEZX10]

Would you guys rather have a Zenith or in-house movement Daytona, value not considered. I sold my Y series for a Z series and kinda like the thin hands. Was considering selling the Z series, to buy one w/ Zenith movement since they have thin hands. Haven' t wore the Z much so maybe I gotta let grow on me, just use to looking at the thin hands

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by MAINEZX10

Would you guys rather have a Zenith or in-house movement Daytona, value not considered. I sold my Y series for a Z series and kinda like the thin hands. Was considering selling the Z series, to buy one w/ Zenith movement since they have thin hands. Haven' t wore the Z much so maybe I gotta let grow on me, just use to looking at the thin hands

The Zenith movement is excellent. It's a higher beat 32,000 A/Hr and a 31-jewel movement.

The new in-house 4130 calibre from Rolex goes at 28,800 A/Hr and is encrusted with 44-jewels.

Both very good movements - you can't go wrong with either one of them.

JJ

[MAINEZX10]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

The Zenith movement is excellent. It's a higher beat 32,000 A/Hr and a 31-jewel movement.

The new in-house 4130 calibre from Rolex goes at 28,800 A/Hr and is encrusted with 44-jewels.

Both very good movements - you can't go wrong with either one of them.

JJ

If you had to chose which would you?

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by MAINEZX10

If you had to chose which would you?

Well, I would go with the in-house 4130 calibre. Don't really need the super hi-beat movement.

JJ

[padi56]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Well, I would go with the in-house 4130 calibre. Don't really need the super hi-beat movement.

JJ

JJ the Zenith El-Primo was a high beat 36000 BPH movement and it was down-graded by Rolex to a 28000 BPH movement.

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

The Zenith movement is excellent. It's a higher beat 32,000 A/Hr and a 31-jewel movement.

The new in-house 4130 calibre from Rolex goes at 28,800 A/Hr and is encrusted with 44-jewels.

Both very good movements - you can't go wrong with either one of them.

JJ

The EP is a 36,000 vph and Rolex detuned it to 28,800, they also left the date feature unused so i'd say it's not really the high beat EP anymore, the in-house movement was specifically made for the Daytona, they used up the extra space to get more power reserve so out of the two i'd choose the in-house.

But if it's a choice between a fully working EP and the 4130 then i'd choose the EP

[argee1977]

And yes i'm bitter about this as i had set the zenith daytona as my grail until i found out it was detuned

[Moto]

Originally Posted by argee1977

And yes i'm bitter about this as i had set the zenith daytona as my grail until i found out it was detuned

You say detuned like it was a bad thing. Rolex found that the accuracy was more stable with a slower beat and a heavier balance wheel that has more inertia. It's an improvement.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by argee1977

The EP is a 36,000 vph and Rolex detuned it to 28,800, they also left the date feature unused so i'd say it's not really the high beat EP anymore, the in-house movement was specifically made for the Daytona, they used up the extra space to get more power reserve so out of the two i'd choose the in-house.

But if it's a choice between a fully working EP and the 4130 then i'd choose the EP

Oops....that's right, Ryan....that should have read as 36,000 A/hr. Thanks for the correction.

JJ

[CVerKuilen]

I think they BOTH have a place in our collections, however the 4030 is generally not referred to as the El Primero by a certain group of people, and rightly so. The EP went through over 100 modifications in order to earn the right to be called the 4130. Considering the 4030 has ~ 300 components that are disassembled during service, I would grant it the right to be called it's own movement, as well.

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Oops....that's right, Ryan....that should have read as 36,000 A/hr. Thanks for the correction.

JJ

I never even noticed that i was correcting

As for the reasons why Rolex detuned, yes they went on about the increase in maintenance of the movement, but we're talking about a movement that has been in hundreds of watches since 1969, and still going strong in thousands of watches today, reducing it wouldn't increase accuracy, if anything it would reduce it slightly if it started losing/gaining time.

[scottschoe]

Zenith due to the subdial layout/colors.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Originally Posted by scottschoe

Zenith due to the subdial layout/colors.

ditto

[cody p]

what could be cooler than having a rolex modified 'el primero' on your wrist?

[Alcan]

.

[Tools]

The thin hands are difficult to see and the sub-dial at the traditional 6 oclock position is just too cool.

I would go with the new 4130 any day..

However, if I collected Daytonas..then of course, I would have both.

[hsung]

I have not worn a Zenith movement, but like the dials during this era. I am waiting for Rolex to reinvent some of these dials with a black bezel

However, I like the 72 hr power reserve and the thinner case of the 4130 movement.

I would like to correct my earlier post in another thread that it makes no difference how you place the 4130 Daytona overnight. This week, I noticed mine had slowed a few seconds after gaining a few over several weeks placing it crown up on the W/E's. So, last Fri night, I place it with crystal face up, and found it regained the lost seconds this Sun morning

[Andad]

"accuracy was more stable with a slower beat"

Sorry but I dont understand that?

IMO Rolex saw potential problems with spinning the bigger heavier microstella wheel at 36000 vph so they had to reduce the escapement to 28800 as the stress on working parts was going to be too high. The spin off (NPI) was that the power reserve was increased by the slower escapement. Larry (Tools) also noted that bigger concerns were the lubrication problems with the 36000 escapement and this would also mean more frequent servicing and parts replacement.

[Moto]

Originally Posted by directioneng

"accuracy was more stable with a slower beat"

Sorry but I dont understand that?

IMO Rolex saw potential problems with spinning the bigger heavier microstella wheel at 36000 vph so they had to reduce the escapement to 28800 as the stress on working parts was going to be too high. The spin off (NPI) was that the power reserve was increased by the slower escapement. Larry (Tools) also noted that bigger concerns were the lubrication problems with the 36000 escapement and this would also mean more frequent servicing and parts replacement.

This was mentioned in the article
A WORLD APART- INSIDE THE ROLEX MANUFACTURE
By Wei Koh

"Back when Rolex used the Zenith El Primero chronograph movement for their Daytona watches, movements were detuned from 36,000 vph to 28,800 vph. Rolex found that reducing vibrational speed and using a balance with greater inertia led to better long-term accuracy and stability."

A very interesting read which you can find here: http://www.horomundi.com/forum/showt...ighlight=Rolex

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by Moto

This was mentioned in the article
A WORLD APART- INSIDE THE ROLEX MANUFACTURE
By Wei Koh

"Back when Rolex used the Zenith El Primero chronograph movement for their Daytona watches, movements were detuned from 36,000 vph to 28,800 vph. Rolex found that reducing vibrational speed and using a balance with greater inertia led to better long-term accuracy and stability."

A very interesting read which you can find here: http://www.horomundi.com/forum/showt...ighlight=Rolex

But the very reason for a high frequency movement is to increase accuracy and stability, i wouldn't believe everything stated, i feel Rolex wanted to stamp their own style onto the movement, they reduced the frequency so that it wouldn't require servicing quite as frequently and wouldn't wear as fast, so if you service an in-house Rolex every 5 years then the zenith should be serviced every four years.

Anyway i wouldn't look too deeply into it, the EP is a fantastic movement with a wealth of history and data, Rolex used this to tide them over until their own movement was complete, and they created a fantastic movement of their own that suited the style of chronograph they were producing, the EP was a little bit of a square peg in a round hole, Rolex just shaved the edges off to get it to fit their system.

I'd still love to see Rolex add the date function onto the Daytona, but i'm in two minds whether they will, on the one hand i feel that a lot of people would love this and i know at least 3 people who would buy a Daytona with a date function, but i also have a feeling that the purists at Rolex may think a date function is a change too far.

[Z-Sub]

I would pick the 4130 even though the 4030 is more "collectable" at this time.
Though accuracy are the same for both, 4130 had a few advantages like faster winding, longer (still not long enough) power reserve and easy to maintain/service.

[hsung]

Originally Posted by Moto

This was mentioned in the article
A WORLD APART- INSIDE THE ROLEX MANUFACTURE
By Wei Koh

"Back when Rolex used the Zenith El Primero chronograph movement for their Daytona watches, movements were detuned from 36,000 vph to 28,800 vph. Rolex found that reducing vibrational speed and using a balance with greater inertia led to better long-term accuracy and stability."

A very interesting read which you can find here: http://www.horomundi.com/forum/showt...ighlight=Rolex

Thanks for the interesting thread

[rolex_addict]

the in house movement 4130 no doubt!

[Felly Jr.]

Originally Posted by rolex_addict

the in house movement 4130 no doubt!

[C. Davidson]

Originally Posted by MAINEZX10

Would you guys rather have a Zenith or in-house movement Daytona, value not considered. I sold my Y series for a Z series and kinda like the thin hands. Was considering selling the Z series, to buy one w/ Zenith movement since they have thin hands. Haven' t wore the Z much so maybe I gotta let grow on me, just use to looking at the thin hands

I would go with the in-house movement.

[Felly Jr.]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

I would go with the in-house movement.

Me Too!

[Porsche9284]

First Post.

Though everyone would find this an interesting read.



http://www.watchtime.com/archive/wt_...001_05_042.pdf