Rolex not liking the Grey Market is B.S.

[GreatScott]

All these threads saying Rolex is not liking the grey market and doing things like having stickers pulled, keeping the warranty card for a year, limiting supply, etc. are just a bunch of BS.

First off, is everyone foolish to think that Rolex does not know exactly which dealer(s) is selling to flippers? Rolex knows exactly what serial numbers are shipped to each dealer, all they have to do is buy one and check the serial number. But why would they, a sale is a sale!

Second, this whole limiting supply argument to prevent flipping is the stupidest thing I ever heard. See point #1 above. Also, the grey market also sells lower demand piece which also keep the factories churning. Selling pieces above retail ensures the brand exclusively.

And finally, there is no way they can punish a dealer for selling to a flipper. They can not dictate discrimination. If you have cash and the product is available then it is first come first served or a dealer would be sued out of existence.

So, let’s stop all this nonsense and just admit that the global economy is really hot right now, thus more people are interested in luxury items, and thus Rolex, while increasing production, is just not increasing it fast enough to keep up with the generation of new wealth that desires to own a Rolex. If a recession were to come, suddenly there would be excess capacity. Rolex would also fare much better than those brands that churn out unlimited supply and are left holding the inventory.

Rolex is smart, these threads are not.

[Flier]

I see your point
Exluding insulting all the OPs that wrote the threats that do not agree with the above
its an interesting point of view

[GreatScott]

Originally Posted by Flier

I see your point
Exluding insulting all the OPs that wrote the threats that do not agree with the above
its an interesting point of view

Good call out, no insults were meant, so I apologize if it came across that way.

I think we all just need to stop playing into the frenzy and take it for what it is, supply and demand and it will soon level out.

[Flier]

Originally Posted by GreatScott

Good call out, no insults were meant, so I apologize if it came across that way.

I think we all just need to stop playing into the frenzy and take it for what it is, supply and demand and it will soon level out.

:)

[arcadelt]

I agree with most of what you said, except this:

Originally Posted by GreatScott

If you have cash and the product is available then it is first come first served or a dealer would be sued out of existence.

It's happening - just like restricting parts supply to independent watchmakers - but proving it is the hard part.

[superdog]

Lmao. Hard to argue some of this.

But can we all agree that there is a difference between the gray dealer and a flipper?

[AK797]

Only your last paragraph regarding global demand is true, the rest is just dreaming, time to wake up, it is happening and you can't just wish it away, we've tried in the UK for 2 years now.

[harvey]

I stopped reading after the first paragraph...


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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by harvey

I stopped reading after the first paragraph...


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X2

[TemerityB]

Originally Posted by brandrea

x2

x3

[watchwatcher]

Originally Posted by harvey

I stopped reading after the first paragraph...


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You got farther than me.

[train-time]

Originally Posted by harvey

I stopped reading after the first paragraph...


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Unfortunately I skimmed through most of it. Gotta love the internet. Not much worth reading anymore.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by GreatScott

All these threads saying Rolex is not liking the grey market and doing things like having stickers pulled, keeping the warranty card for a year, limiting supply, etc. are just a bunch of BS.

You can hold whatever opinion you like regarding what you think is happening with supply and demand.

But regarding the bit in bold, which you claim is BS: are you suggesting the multiple forum members who report this actually happening to them are liars? If not, then what reasons do you think AD’s might have to want to piss off their customers?

[tyler1980]

[GreatScott]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

You can hold whatever opinion you like regarding what you think is happening with supply and demand.

But regarding the bit in bold, which you claim is BS: are you suggesting the multiple forum members who report this actually happening to them are liars? If not, then what reasons do you think AD’s might have to want to piss off their customers?

No, what I am saying is it is marketing! Rolex is seeing an opportunity to give off the impression of exclusivity, so they are! They are shrewd and we are playing into their hands.

[larrysimon]

Hi to All,

This is my first post as a "New" member of this forum.

My experience is probably typical to most people on here who have recently tried to buy a SS Rolex from an AD in the UK, I started looking before Christmas (Dec 2017) and was virtually laughed at by a sneering bunch of Rolex Sales Assistants,
No Chance, Forget it, Waiting List closed, Be prepared to wait at least 2 years was the reply I received,

My Local AD (Goldsmiths ###### Centre)………….said how many watches have you bought from us, actually 2 over the past 10 years………………………….”Hahaha we have customers spending £250 k a year, that’s who is at the top of our waiting lists”. This Rolex AD Manager told me that he gives his private phone number out to his best customers (Premiershit Footballers) who ring him directly to place orders for any Rolex and especially the New Pepsi.

So in my experience Rolex AD’s in the UK do trade with a very obvious type of discrimination, I wonder how they would stand legally if challenged with this sales behaviour?

I also have heard whispers from within Rolex AD’s that the Grey Market is constantly fed by Sales staff who purchase watches on the pretence it’s for themselves and sell on for a profit to Prestige Watch Underwriters………………lots of them types knocking about.

Well to cut a long story short, I found a UK Rolex AD who took my name in Jan 2018 and by May 2018 they rang me and said come in we have your New Batman in stock.

It did restore my faith a little in Rolex AD’s but what should have been a happy experience has tarnished my purchase slightly ………………..

I haven’t worn it yet and it’s in my sock draw……….never even looked at it since the day I picked it up.

Buyers remorse? No don’t ask I’m not selling it.

[chloebear]

Originally Posted by larrysimon

Hi to All,

This is my first post as a "New" member of this forum.

My experience is probably typical to most people on here who have recently tried to buy a SS Rolex from an AD in the UK, I started looking before Christmas (Dec 2017) and was virtually laughed at by a sneering bunch of Rolex Sales Assistants,
No Chance, Forget it, Waiting List closed, Be prepared to wait at least 2 years was the reply I received,

My Local AD (Goldsmiths ###### Centre)………….said how many watches have you bought from us, actually 2 over the past 10 years………………………….”Hahaha we have customers spending £250 k a year, that’s who is at the top of our waiting lists”. This Rolex AD Manager told me that he gives his private phone number out to his best customers (Premiershit Footballers) who ring him directly to place orders for any Rolex and especially the New Pepsi.

So in my experience Rolex AD’s in the UK do trade with a very obvious type of discrimination, I wonder how they would stand legally if challenged with this sales behaviour?

I also have heard whispers from within Rolex AD’s that the Grey Market is constantly fed by Sales staff who purchase watches on the pretence it’s for themselves and sell on for a profit to Prestige Watch Underwriters………………lots of them types knocking about.

Well to cut a long story short, I found a UK Rolex AD who took my name in Jan 2018 and by May 2018 they rang me and said come in we have your New Batman in stock.

It did restore my faith a little in Rolex AD’s but what should have been a happy experience has tarnished my purchase slightly ………………..

I haven’t worn it yet and it’s in my sock draw……….never even looked at it since the day I picked it up.

Buyers remorse? No don’t ask I’m not selling it.

Really interesting story. Seems like the UK is a particularly unique market for Rolex. Really hard to compare a Rolex buying experience in the US to the UK. For that matter a big city US AD versus a rural AD.

Funny about the Premier League Footballers. I'm sure they get whatever they want.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by chloebear

Really interesting story. Seems like the UK is a particularly unique market for Rolex. Really hard to compare a Rolex buying experience in the US to the UK. For that matter a big city US AD versus a rural AD.

Funny about the Premier League Footballers. I'm sure they get whatever they want.

You know the interesting thing about our footballers and maybe all highly paid sportsmen, is that their agents do most of their retail buying - clothes, watches, entertainment devices etc, it's how they justify making millions living off them with no talent but negotiating once every few months, and so as they are tight as frick I bet they haggle like crazy and get big discounts, even on the populars, because the ADs want the watches to go to celebs. So same old story of when you can afford anything, you get it for free or at a huge discount.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by GreatScott

And finally, there is no way they can punish a dealer for selling to a flipper. They can not dictate discrimination. If you have cash and the product is available then it is first come first served or a dealer would be sued out of existence.

This part is false. AD’s have licensing agreements with Rolex corporate. They must follow the stipulations outlined in that agreement. At least for US distribution part of that agreement stipulates ADs are forbidden to sell to other resellers/dealers. It’s not a criminal violation for an AD but it is in violation of their licensing agreement and Rolex could certainly terminate their AD status for such violations.


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[GreatScott]

Originally Posted by jrs146

This part is false. AD’s have licensing agreements with Rolex corporate. They must follow the stipulations outlined in that agreement. At least for US distribution part of that agreement stipulates ADs are forbidden to sell to other resellers/dealers. It’s not a criminal violation for an AD but it is in violation of their licensing agreement and Rolex could certainly terminate their AD status for such violations.


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Do you think that I should why they say they are not affiliated with a dealer, not a dealer, etc. those little disclaimers legally help the dealers that sell to them as well.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by GreatScott

Do you think that I should why they say they are not affiliated with a dealer, not a dealer, etc. those little disclaimers legally help the dealers that sell to them as well.

I’m sure the gray sellers use those disclosures for that reason exactly. Also to ensure that a buyer doesn’t mistake them for an AD. Remember only a purchase originating from an AD carries a warranty. It is confusing though because most of the watches you see for sale here on the forum have been purchased originally through an AD and carry the manufacturers warranty. They were either sold by the original purchaser or directly from the AD. However AD’s selling directly to gray sellers is a violation of their licensing agreement as mentioned before.


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[The Libertine]

And in other news today.....

[aleexxxxx]

Agreed, Rolex hated the grey market when every single SS watch was available in the grey for below list price. Which back in mid 2013 when I was shopping for my 1st you could get any current SS sports model for below list for a slightly used one. Now everyone sees the grey at above msrp and are going to ADs which is boosting business for them

[chloebear]

Originally Posted by aleexxxxx

Agreed, Rolex hated the grey market when every single SS watch was available in the grey for below list price. Which back in mid 2013 when I was shopping for my 1st you could get any current SS sports model for below list for a slightly used one. Now everyone sees the grey at above msrp and are going to ADs which is boosting business for them

Very true. My first several Rolexes were bought from the gray market because the price was so much better than the AD's. Not coincidentally my last 4 Rolexes were purchased from my local AD because now their prices are better.

[seadweller43]

Originally Posted by GreatScott

All these threads saying Rolex is not liking the grey market and doing things like having stickers pulled, keeping the warranty card for a year, limiting supply, etc. are just a bunch of BS.

First off, is everyone foolish to think that Rolex does not know exactly which dealer(s) is selling to flippers? Rolex knows exactly what serial numbers are shipped to each dealer, all they have to do is buy one and check the serial number. But why would they, a sale is a sale!

Second, this whole limiting supply argument to prevent flipping is the stupidest thing I ever heard. See point #1 above. Also, the grey market also sells lower demand piece which also keep the factories churning. Selling pieces above retail ensures the brand exclusively.

And finally, there is no way they can punish a dealer for selling to a flipper. They can not dictate discrimination. If you have cash and the product is available then it is first come first served or a dealer would be sued out of existence.

So, let’s stop all this nonsense and just admit that the global economy is really hot right now, thus more people are interested in luxury items, and thus Rolex, while increasing production, is just not increasing it fast enough to keep up with the generation of new wealth that desires to own a Rolex. If a recession were to come, suddenly there would be excess capacity. Rolex would also fare much better than those brands that churn out unlimited supply and are left holding the inventory.

Rolex is smart, these threads are not.

i agree with you that rolex do know exactly what's going on in ther ADs. they just let them do it.

[tyler1980]

seriously though you are making a complex issue too simple. There are a lot of separate factors and different motivations and different markets at play. You can't simply say this is the cause in a black and white simple way. Its way more complicated.

A lot of the things you are saying are not happening are in fact happening. Rolex themselves are sending mixed signals. They are obviously ok with the grey market for unpopular watches and seem upset about it being used to sell hot ones. So they are contradicting themselves with some of their reactions to what is going on.

[77T]

Rolex is a global maker of Swiss Watches - and one with competition. Anything that competes with their authorized dealers is a potential threat.

Gray marketers are a small threat so I do believe some hyperbole has been injected into the discourse on watch forums. Yet I am sure Rolex as a leading manufacturer is concerned with avoiding the pitfalls - distributor dissatisfaction, customer dissatisfaction and brand dissatisfaction. Just my 2¢ but volumes have been written in biz school about this, and I believe Rolex Marketing hires sharp marketers, so I believe they pay some attention to this factor. Especially with product destined for one market bleeding into others due to currency fluctuations, import duties and support costs.

A strong gray market can cause turmoil in distribution channels. At some point action is inevitable. But a manufacturer can lose sight of the ultimate arbitrator in this situation: the customer.

When a substantial gray market develops, what are customers saying to the manufacturer about its product? You see what is being said here by knowledgeable customers. But the silent majority are the millions who can’t get what Rolex Marketing is advertising - and don’t know how to access the burgeoning gray market. So they go to eBay or other online channels. This irks AD’s and they complain in 7 languages I’m sure.

The answer may force management to revise its marketing and distribution strategy. So I can see some recent policies rooted in concerns about gray marketers. That is like a canary in a coal mine - actions show me there is some concern but Rolex isn’t obsessed - yet.

As customers become familiar with a product category, they tend to place less value on the support offered by the manufacturer or its distributors. They go to independent watchmakers for work and find extra doodads like a different color dial on eBay. This affects pull-through revenue. The first Rolex may be bought at an AD, but that second one may go to a gray seller.

Any move Rolex makes at this point is risky. For example, to boost margins and disintermediate gray marketers they may use online direct sales. Omega has done this to help support their brand.

Yet inaction can be worse for Rolex. An alteration in distribution strategy is often necessary to attack the root causes of a gray market. The next step I believe is controlling access to the warranty by gray market buyers - and we’ve seen some of that.

Timely information about gray market activity and close attention to global pricing policies seems to be what Rolex has chosen for now. Few ADs have only Rolex - they usually have other brands - so Rolex market share per market is slipping. But not enough for them to craft harsh policies at this point.


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[chloebear]

Originally Posted by 77T

Rolex is a global maker of Swiss Watches - and one with competition. Anything that competes with their authorized dealers is a potential threat.

Gray marketers are a small threat so I do believe some hyperbole has been injected into the discourse on watch forums. Yet I am sure Rolex as a leading manufacturer is concerned with avoiding the pitfalls - distributor dissatisfaction, customer dissatisfaction and brand dissatisfaction. Just my 2¢ but volumes have been written in biz school about this, and I believe Rolex Marketing hires sharp marketers, so I believe they pay some attention to this factor. Especially with product destined for one market bleeding into others due to currency fluctuations, import duties and support costs.

A strong gray market can cause turmoil in distribution channels. At some point action is inevitable. But a manufacturer can lose sight of the ultimate arbitrator in this situation: the customer.

When a substantial gray market develops, what are customers saying to the manufacturer about its product? You see what is being said here by knowledgeable customers. But the silent majority are the millions who can’t get what Rolex Marketing is advertising - and don’t know how to access the burgeoning gray market. So they go to eBay or other online channels. This irks AD’s and they complain in 7 languages I’m sure.

The answer may force management to revise its marketing and distribution strategy. So I can see some recent policies rooted in concerns about gray marketers. That is like a canary in a coal mine - actions show me there is some concern but Rolex isn’t obsessed - yet.

As customers become familiar with a product category, they tend to place less value on the support offered by the manufacturer or its distributors. They go to independent watchmakers for work and find extra doodads like a different color dial on eBay. This affects pull-through revenue. The first Rolex may be bought at an AD, but that second one may go to a gray seller.

Any move Rolex makes at this point is risky. For example, to boost margins and disintermediate gray marketers they may use online direct sales. Omega has done this to help support their brand.

Yet inaction can be worse for Rolex. An alteration in distribution strategy is often necessary to attack the root causes of a gray market. The next step I believe is controlling access to the warranty by gray market buyers - and we’ve seen some of that.

Timely information about gray market activity and close attention to global pricing policies seems to be what Rolex has chosen for now. Few ADs have only Rolex - they usually have other brands - so Rolex market share per market is slipping. But not enough for them to craft harsh policies at this point.


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I love these kind of threads. Really thoughtful post by the way.

[MrInternational]

Originally Posted by chloebear

I love these kind of threads. Really thoughtful post by the way.

+1


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[Andad]

Originally Posted by chloebear

I love these kind of threads. Really thoughtful post by the way.

Thoughtful but disintermediate.

Whatever that indicates?