OK, here's a stupid question...

[TheVTCGuy]

I belong to a coin-collecting club, I don't consider myself an actual numismatic, but I do have a (very small) collection. Anyway, in our on line and in person GTGs we discuss precious metal prices trends, current stats etc. I checked today, and the below costs are current for one ounce of each of the metals.

Gold $1,255.70

Platinum $849.25


Gold is approximately 30% higher then Platinum.

I understand Platinum is harder to work with then Gold, I think because Gold is a softer metal, but even so, WHY are the prices for a Platinum Rolex close to DOUBLE that of a Gold? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or at least a lot closer?

[0alpha]

Stainless steel: $3 per pound

Why are we paying $20k for SS Daytonas?

[Boba Fett]

Mis-selling, this is not a stupid question.

[SearChart]

They want it to be more exclusive.

[SpeakWithMichael]

And diamonds are ra(Cough)re.

[Cru Jones]

I wonder what the pricing of platinum and gold was when the pricing was put in place way back when?

[Tampashooter]

I think PT Barnum said it best.

[Andad]

I agree.

[Muxi]

Platinum used to be much more expensive than gold

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Muxi

Platinum used to be much more expensive than gold

[bardm]

Besides the answers above: Platinium is denser than gold, so you use more of it to make a watch (in weight) than gold.

[NLYogi]

Does Rolex, besides its gold, als melts its own platinum?

[AAVDB]

Yes as bardm has staded, 18k gold is used in the watches, and platinum is 95%. (so you get ''more'' precious metal in a platinum one)

Also platinum is supossed to be more scarce than gold and therefore more expensive (this was also the case years ago)

Im actually looking into buying up platinum coins, because I think there should be a correction in the future. However in Holland we must pay VAT over plat. coins (also silver) So I guess I can better buy a Platona

[Devildog]

It’s simple.

Platumin is generally perceived as a more precious metal therefore a higher price can be charged for items made with it.

Platinum watches are made with 95% pure platinum and 18ct gold watches with only 75% gold.

Pure platinum is denser than gold.

Platinum is harder to work than gold.

But fundamentally it’s the perception point that allowed the massive difference in prices.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by 0alpha

Stainless steel: $3 per pound

Why are we paying $20k for SS Daytonas?

Exactly. People will pay what they will pay. The specific metal doesn’t really matter!


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[lhawli]

From an engineering and material science prospective:

Platinum has a higher melting point and has higher strength than gold, this is a lot harder to form and results in more iterations of heat treatments and die wear. Also platinum is denser so the same case would weigh in more as platinum than it would from gold - thus more pounds more $$$.

You also cannot machine platinum through conventional methods like gold. You need to use special tools (diamond tips or tungsten carbide), which still result in rapid tool wear, thus you must machine at lower speeds with expensive coolants. Surface finish and shearing of the material is a high risk.

I am not sure of the machining times but I bet platinum is double that of gold from forming to finished machining. At Rolex cost rates per hour, I can see how platinum can easily jump up in price.

Don’t forget, Rolex also melt, forge and machine their own gold, which means they hedge on gold and that can make a huge difference in price per pound. I do not believe they produce their own platinum and with fewer platinum watches produced, economies of scale play their role.

Now the real question should be: Why do we pay soo much for SS? That my friend is the ultimate precious metal if you look at the mark up from a $/lb prospective.

Cheers
Lami


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[037]

Originally Posted by lhawli

You also cannot machine platinum through conventional methods like gold. You need to use special tools (diamond tips or tungsten carbide), which still result in rapid tool wear, thus you must machine at lower speeds with expensive coolants. Surface finish and shearing of the material is a high risk.

Platinum machining processes are similar to stainless steel. Carbide tooling is standard and modern machines are capable of high-speed feed rates with solid workholding practices. S&F are slightly different between platinum and stainless but not enough that machine time becomes an absolute determinant in cost. Many stainless alloys are far more difficult to work with than platinum. Gold is more gummy in comparison and requires its own set of rules for machining, none of which are "quicker" or "easier" when talking mass-production.

Platinum is more expensive because of exclusivity. That's about it.

[Speedbird-1]

May I respectfully refer everyone to my post dated: 14th June 2018.

[Rose Gold]

Only if you provide a link. :-)

Originally Posted by Lt Virgil Hilts

May I respectfully refer everyone to my post dated: 14th June 2018.

[Dirt]

It's certainly a strange dynamic.
All i know is that Platinum was once regarded as little more than a nuisance by-product of gold mining.
And that Platinum yield is only a small fraction of the gold yield per ton of material removed.
This obviously leads to a certain degree of rarity which must inevitably feed into the price structure.

As a metal, It is definately harder to work than gold according to all reports. This must also be a factor.

[Mr. K]

Originally Posted by 0alpha

Stainless steel: $3 per pound

Why are we paying $20k for SS Daytonas?

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by 037

Platinum machining processes are similar to stainless steel. Carbide tooling is standard and modern machines are capable of high-speed feed rates with solid workholding practices. S&F are slightly different between platinum and stainless but not enough that machine time becomes an absolute determinant in cost. Many stainless alloys are far more difficult to work with than platinum. Gold is more gummy in comparison and requires its own set of rules for machining, none of which are "quicker" or "easier" when talking mass-production.

Platinum is more expensive because of exclusivity. That's about it.

I don’t disagree with anything you said except, I never compared Platinum to SS - only with gold. In addition, of course you can use the same tools and S&F for both SS and Platinum but the tools wear out faster and the surface finish and amount of polish required there after are a whole other factor you seem to be missing.

Also, to just say that platinum prices from Rolex watches have nothing at all to do with anything other than exclusivity (which is a playing factor) is false.

Anyway, google goes a long way with lots of technical articles around all the materials in question.


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[Fat_ninja]

Gold moves a few hundred dollars vs the cost curve. That said gold likely will never really go up again in crisis given the alternative is bit coin. Sadly bitcoin has too many variations.

Platinum has structural issues as auto demand post the next wave of regulations will begin its secular decline...full EV’s don’t need platinum nor palladium for auto catalyst since there is no emissions.


That said price of metal has nothing to do with the watch as the brand is the value. Value selling is not based on cost.


If you are investing in coins based on inflation...there are better ways to express that view.

[Rashid.bk]

Science and rational doesn't explain this anymore, it's much more simple guys.

Saying my watch is PLATINUM sounds much cooler than saying it's gold. It's so cool that the Platona incorporated it into it's name. There is not a Goldtona or Goldmariner. Then of course you get the gorgeous and exclusive ice blue dial only available on the platinum.

So the answer is simple, you pay more to be cooler.
Great question Paul.

[CLG23]

Originally Posted by Devildog

It’s simple.

Platumin is generally perceived as a more precious metal therefore a higher price can be charged for items made with it.

Platinum watches are made with 95% pure platinum and 18ct gold watches with only 75% gold.

Pure platinum is denser than gold.

Platinum is harder to work than gold.

But fundamentally it’s the perception point that allowed the massive difference in prices.

Perception indeed

[Speedbird-1]

Cool?

How can you spot the platinum watch wearer at a party?
Don't sweat it, they'll tell you.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by 0alpha

Stainless steel: $3 per pound

Why are we paying $20k for SS Daytonas?

Some people might be but 'we' most certainly aren't. It wouldn't enter my head to pay that much over retail for a watch.

[037]

Originally Posted by lhawli

I don’t disagree with anything you said except, I never compared Platinum to SS - only with gold. In addition, of course you can use the same tools and S&F for both SS and Platinum but the tools wear out faster and the surface finish and amount of polish required there after are a whole other factor you seem to be missing.

Also, to just say that platinum prices from Rolex watches have nothing at all to do with anything other than exclusivity (which is a playing factor) is false.

Anyway, google goes a long way with lots of technical articles around all the materials in question.

Not sure what I'm missing. I mentioned machining, not polishing time. Pt is marginally softer than SS and therefore marginally more time consuming to polish. But, it's not 6X more time consuming if we compare a $12,400 SS Daytona to a $75,000 Pt Daytona.

Regarding platinum costs, I stand by exclusivity being "about it." I never said it was the only factor. All I said was "that's about it." If it's less expensive than gold and no more difficult to machine and finish than stainless, it should cost more than a stainless watch but less than a gold watch. You actually made my point in what you said above.

Regarding Google and technical articles, aerospace doesn't use large amounts of platinum so I guess I'll have to Google that.

[Quailhunter]

I don’t believe the materials cost of a product have all that much impact on the selling price. My guess is the the materials cost of a Rolex is less than 10% of its selling price. A Rolex in a black plastic case with a simple rubber strap would be functionally the same as one in precious metal but would not sell. Most Rolex buyers are buying for emotional reasons. Precious metals, especially platinum, have a stronger emotional appeal to many people than steel or plastic. Thus, a precious metal watch can sell for more than a steel watch.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Science and rational doesn't explain this anymore, it's much more simple guys.

Saying my watch is PLATINUM sounds much cooler than saying it's gold. It's so cool that the Platona incorporated it into it's name. There is not a Goldtona or Goldmariner. Then of course you get the gorgeous and exclusive ice blue dial only available on the platinum.

So the answer is simple, you pay more to be cooler.
Great question Paul.

Not a fan of platinum/platumin/whatever, it looks just like stainless and brings out the worst in supersupercool people.