Beckertime selling fake dial datejust

[tigey]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F361672371873

Fake dial and aftermarket clasp.

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[Brew]

From the listing:

BeckerTime is proud to offer this handsome Men's 36mm Genuine Rolex Stainless Steel Datejust Watch ref #1603 with a custom refinished White Mother of Pearl Diamond Dial. This Genuine Rolex has been fitted with a custom aftermarket oyster style band. This Rolex is in SUPER EXCELLENT CONDITION.

[tigey]

A "custom" dial with a copywrighted logo applied by someone other than the manufacturer of the watch is counterfiet.

[edweather]

If the logo existed on the dial, and was removed to refinish the dial, and then reapplied, does that make the dial/watch counterfeit? I'm still learning.

[mrblue]

How do you know who applied the logo? An item with an after market part doesn't make it fake.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by tigey

A "custom" dial with a copywrighted logo applied by someone other than the manufacturer of the watch is counterfiet.

A refinished authentic dial is not counterfeit.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by mrblue

How do you know who applied the logo? An item with an after market part doesn't make it fake.

Yes it does
Its fake in the eyes of trademark infringement
Its fake in the eyes of ROLEX
HOWEVER
My personal way of "considering fake" is if an individual or company are trying to deceive
In this case BECKERTIME make it absolutely clear, and therefore are NOT trying to deceive
So I would not personally report
but an aftermarket bracelet with a ROLEX Marque Depose - is counterfeit!
Adam

[freefly]

Originally Posted by edweather

If the logo existed on the dial, and was removed to refinish the dial, and then reapplied, does that make the dial/watch counterfeit? I'm still learning.

No, that would be fine (although, it would obviously no longer be able to be considered "original").

The problem is that 99% of the dials out there marketed as "refinished" are simply counterfeit. It is far easier and cheaper to source a knock-off dial than to have a genuine/original dial properly refinished.
Many of these online grey dealers do so even if the original dial is fine. It's an added revenue stream, as it allows them to sell the genuine/original dials separately (same goes for bezels, bracelets, etc.).

In this case, the DJ dial in the OP watch is counterfeit IMO (that is not a genuine Rolex coronet, and the date window appears to be too small).

[J_1964]

No Coronet on the clasp, but That Date Window Looks Horrible.

[77T]

IMHO the bracelet doesn’t violate any trademark - therefore it isn’t fake. The clasp has no Rolex insignia and is well-disclosed by the seller as an aftermarket bracelet.

Can’t speak for the watch itself because there are no pictures of the movement.

Rolex would not accept the watch head as authentic with that dial in it. The dial itself doesn’t appear to be an original Rolex dial plate that was refinished. The only way to know is to disassemble it.

If it was reported, the listing will probably not be removed since the seller disclosed the customization of the dial. Any buyer will be stuck with a watch that can never be fixed by Rolex without an expensive dial replacement.


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[J_1964]

Originally Posted by 77T

IMHO the bracelet doesn’t violate any trademark - therefore it isn’t fake. The clasp has no Rolex insignia and is well-disclosed by the seller as an aftermarket bracelet.

Can’t speak for the watch itself because there are no pictures of the movement.

Rolex would not accept the watch head as authentic with that dial in it. The dial itself doesn’t appear to be an original Rolex dial plate that was refinished. The only way to know is to disassemble it.

If it was reported, the listing will probably not be removed since the seller disclosed the customization of the dial. Any buyer will be stuck with a watch that can never be fixed by Rolex without an expensive dial replacement.


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+1 Well Stated!

[City74]

It’s well know they sell less then perfect watches. I wouldn’t go so far as to say fakes but I certainly wouldn’t buy from them


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[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Tools

A refinished authentic dial is not counterfeit.

How does one "refinish" a dial without messing with the original printed script done by the factory? Or is the term defined by adding diamonds/jewels to it?

[J_1964]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

How does one "refinish" a dial without messing with the original printed script done by the factory? Or is the term defined by adding diamonds/jewels to it?

AND, How do you Refinish A Dial and The Date Window Gets Smaller?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

How does one "refinish" a dial without messing with the original printed script done by the factory? Or is the term defined by adding diamonds/jewels to it?

There are no trademark laws being violated when removing the painted surfaces and fonts from a product and replacing them, even if the work is sub-standard. It's crap, but it isn't counterfeit.

Same with adding diamonds to an authentic dial.. It isn't original any longer, but it isn't counterfeit, it's aftermarket.

Originally Posted by J_1964

AND, How do you Refinish A Dial and The Date Window Gets Smaller?

In this case the customizer has added trim around the date window. Not a look I care for, but somebody may like it.

[crowncollection]

Not reportable imho no laws violated


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[GGGMT]

Welcome to beckertime. This is what they do and they’re clear about it. If you want a Rolex that hasn’t been sodomized, don’t buy from beckertime.


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[Tools]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

Welcome to beckertime. This is what they do and they’re clear about it. If you want a Rolex that hasn’t been sodomized, don’t buy from beckertime.


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Unfortunately, it is buyer-beware at on-line and walk-in used shops. Bobs, Beckertime, and a few others want to sell the best looking and quickest moving products. They are not watch authenticators or purists.


Rolex shut down Melrose a couple of years back for using counterfeit parts and mismatched pieces, claiming they were authentic; they were a top on-line seller for a while. Plenty of their products still out in the wild, but they are in the wind.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by Tools

Unfortunately, it is buyer-beware at on-line and walk-in used shops. Bobs, Beckertime, and a few others want to sell the best looking and quickest moving products. They are not watch authenticators or purists.





Rolex shut down Melrose a couple of years back for using counterfeit parts and mismatched pieces, claiming they were authentic; they were a top on-line seller for a while. Plenty of their products still out in the wild, but they are in the wind.

We are in heated agreement. Though Bobs in my experience sells much finer product than beckertime, and bobs doesn’t make a living at refinishing dials like Becker does.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

Not reportable imho no laws violated


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I agree David, ergo my post about the actual details.


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[mrblue]

Actually Bob's is quite good. They guarantee authenticity. I don't know what else you could ask for. Not everyone buys brand new from ADs. I quite like 5 digit references.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Tools

There are no trademark laws being violated when removing the painted surfaces and fonts from a product and replacing them, even if the work is sub-standard. It's crap, but it isn't counterfeit.

Same with adding diamonds to an authentic dial.. It isn't original any longer, but it isn't counterfeit, it's aftermarket.



In this case the customizer has added trim around the date window. Not a look I care for, but somebody may like it.

Ditto.

[Watchcollectables]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Ditto.

Actually I have to disagree . In this case the dial has a coronet at 12 which is not made by Rolex . Most of these so called -refinished- dials do . Its because most of them have never seen a Rolex factory in their life .
If a dial is refinished generally the original Gold coronet exists and is used not some stubby square and badly punched out thing that usually sits in an incorrect position on the dial .
If you then add the Rolex logo to a dial it becomes passing off and its illegal .I guess there are so many thousands out there Rolex dont have the time to pursue them all.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Watchcollectables

Actually I have to disagree . In this case the dial has a coronet at 12 which is not made by Rolex . Most of these so called -refinished- dials do . Its because most of them have never seen a Rolex factory in their life .
If a dial is refinished generally the original Gold coronet exists and is used not some stubby square and badly punched out thing that usually sits in an incorrect position on the dial .
If you then add the Rolex logo to a dial it becomes passing off and its illegal .I guess there are so many thousands out there Rolex dont have the time to pursue them all.

I stand by my ditto plus infinity.