How complex are women's watch movements?

[jlovda]

My wife has TT Ladies-Date from 1984. Approx. 25mm case size. Considering how small the movement must be, are ladies' movements more complex or harder to service? Are some things left out that normally are seen on larger diameter movements?

[gerrym]

It's essentially the same movement but smaller. Will try to post some pictures later.

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[ROLLiWORKS]

Same but not nearly as well engineered. The 1161 is barely a movement. The 2030 is eh. The 2135 is good, the 2235, not sure what Rolex was thinking.

[jlovda]

My records from its last servicing show it has a 2135/105054 movement. The watch was from approx. 1984. I remember being told it was one of the first ladies models with a sapphire crystal and quick date change.

[ROLLiWORKS]

2135 more likely

[jlovda]

Originally Posted by ROLLiWORKS

2135 more likely

You are correct. I edited my earlier post. Also it was purchased at the Frankfort airport (ie., Europe) if that makes any difference. If I recall, early US watches used 14ct gold instead of 18ct.

[R.G.Bramlett, CW21]

Jeez Rolli, so that's one out of four ladies rolex movements that get the thumbs up from you? why so much hate?

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by R.G.Bramlett, CW21

Jeez Rolli, so that's one out of four ladies rolex movements that get the thumbs up from you? why so much hate?

The 2235 has amplitude problems, the 2035 was designed by a drunken lunatic. The 2135 is the only decent one from my experience.

[SearChart]

As for serviceability, easy if you have access to all tools and parts.

[037]

Originally Posted by SearChart

The 2235 has amplitude problems, the 2035 was designed by a drunken lunatic. The 2135 is the only decent one from my experience.

What are the differences between the 2235 and 2135? I suspect my mom's LDJ has a 2235 inside and am now curious. Have there been any parts updates since circa 2007?

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by SearChart

The 2235 has amplitude problems, the 2035 was designed by a drunken lunatic. The 2135 is the only decent one from my experience.

I second this!!! lol

[ROLLiWORKS]

yah. Seems 220 on 2235 is like 300 on all other calibers. Very odd.


goo

Originally Posted by SearChart

The 2235 has amplitude problems, the 2035 was designed by a drunken lunatic. The 2135 is the only decent one from my experience.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by 037

What are the differences between the 2235 and 2135? I suspect my mom's LDJ has a 2235 inside and am now curious. Have there been any parts updates since circa 2007?

Biggest difference is the hair spring, regular on the 21 and breguet overcoil on the 22.

[037]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Biggest difference is the hair spring, regular on the 21 and breguet overcoil on the 22.

Ahh, thanks. Would the lower amplitude be related at all to the smaller diameter of the balance wheel? As in, not enough inertia to swing the weight as many degrees? I personally don't know if a Breguet spring has more tension to overcome (albeit more consistent tension) than a standard hairspring.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by 037

Ahh, thanks. Would the lower amplitude be related at all to the smaller diameter of the balance wheel? As in, not enough inertia to swing the weight as many degrees? I personally don't know if a Breguet spring has more tension to overcome (albeit more consistent tension) than a standard hairspring.

No most likely issue with the pallet fork and mainspring being too weak in replacement parts.

Some you'll just replace the spring and get 290 degrees and some you'll replace the complete gear train and you'll get 240 degrees amplitude, the thing is cursed

[ROLLiWORKS]

Hmmm. That is really great info.

Originally Posted by SearChart

No most likely issue with the pallet fork and mainspring being too weak in replacement parts.

Some you'll just replace the spring and get 290 degrees and some you'll replace the complete gear train and you'll get 240 degrees amplitude, the thing is cursed

[037]

Originally Posted by SearChart

No most likely issue with the pallet fork and mainspring being too weak in replacement parts.

Some you'll just replace the spring and get 290 degrees and some you'll replace the complete gear train and you'll get 240 degrees amplitude, the thing is cursed

Interesting. So the original parts have good amplitude but the replacements sometimes result in low amplitude? Have you compared geometry of the original and replacement parts; gear teeth angles, gear diameters, pallet fork jewels, mainspring length and thickness, etc? This would have me investigating just for fun!

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by 037

Interesting. So the original parts have good amplitude but the replacements sometimes result in low amplitude? Have you compared geometry of the original and replacement parts; gear teeth angles, gear diameters, pallet fork jewels, mainspring length and thickness, etc? This would have me investigating just for fun!

We've definitely compared a lot of parts, but not super in-depth. Can't say anything looks wrong with them.

The pallet fork is causing most of the amplitude issues and I'd say this is 1 in 3. Just not having an optimal amplitude.

However if you hit +/-250 degrees dial up fully wound, you would generally say it is too low. (Ideal would be around 280)
Rolex doesn't have a lower limit for that position at 0hr...
And if you have amplitudes above 200 degrees in vertical positions after 24hrs it is good to go, even if dial up@ 0hr was a bit low.

[R.G.Bramlett, CW21]

The amplitude problems with the 22's are interesting, and i'm kindof amazed that Rolex hasn't developed some kind of fix for them.

generally speaking, i've gotten better amplitude on 22's by using standard braking grease (moly or whatever you use) in the barrel, as opposed to Tepa. it's not a magic cure-all, just something i've noticed.

speaking of good times with the 22, there was that period of a few years (2007-2010 or so) when there was an epidemic of practically new, never serviced 22's that came in with a loose screw in the train bridge, with predictable chaos ensuing. i saw about a dozen of them...which means the RSC had to deal with it BIG time.

[erhein]

I had my wife's Y serial, 79174 DJ serviced this past year. It has the 2235 movement and according to my trusty(?) Timegrapher, it measures:
DU-0s/d; 297 amp.-.4ms beat error
DD-+5s/d; 292 amp.-.2ms beat error
CR-+2s/d; 265 amp.-.5ms beat error
CL-+8s/d; 275 amp.-.1ms beat error
CU-+10s/d; 262 amp.-.4ms beat error
CD-0s/d; 264 amp.-.2ms beat error

[jrocks]

Not nearly as complex as women!

[AF_Rob]

I just picked up a Y serial OP Date 79240. Does the movement have a quickset? If so, I think it's INOP. The dealer is going to sort it out Tuesday.

[ROLLiWORKS]

yes quickset

Originally Posted by AF_Rob

I just picked up a Y serial OP Date 79240. Does the movement have a quickset? If so, I think it's INOP. The dealer is going to sort it out Tuesday.

[erhein]

Originally Posted by erhein

I had my wife's Y serial, 79174 DJ serviced this past year. It has the 2235 movement and according to my trusty(?) Timegrapher, it measures:
DU-0s/d; 297 amp.-.4ms beat error
DD-+5s/d; 292 amp.-.2ms beat error
CR-+2s/d; 265 amp.-.5ms beat error
CL-+8s/d; 275 amp.-.1ms beat error
CU-+10s/d; 262 amp.-.4ms beat error
CD-0s/d; 264 amp.-.2ms beat error

I probably should have asked this, but does anyone see anything to be concerned about in these measurements? Can, or should, the watch be regulated so that there's less of a difference in accuracy between, say, the crown-up and crown-down positions? If I average the accuracy measurements, it averages out to be pretty good. And from what's been said before about the amplitude measurements with this movement, I'd also say this watch looks pretty good. Anybody see any reason for concern about the service it received, or the way it measures?

[ROLLiWORKS]

It looks fine. Crown up is not a common position for a watch to be in unless you ride a train with your watch hand holding a high railing. Less the CU position, it's a 8 sec delta with good timing and good amplitude for a cal 2235. Very respectable for this caliber.

Originally Posted by erhein

I probably should have asked this, but does anyone see anything to be concerned about in these measurements? Can, or should, the watch be regulated so that there's less of a difference in accuracy between, say, the crown-up and crown-down positions? If I average the accuracy measurements, it averages out to be pretty good. And from what's been said before about the amplitude measurements with this movement, I'd also say this watch looks pretty good. Anybody see any reason for concern about the service it received, or the way it measures?

[erhein]

Originally Posted by ROLLiWORKS

It looks fine. Crown up is not a common position for a watch to be in unless you ride a train with your watch hand holding a high railing. Less the CU position, it's a 8 sec delta with good timing and good amplitude for a cal 2235. Very respectable for this caliber.

Thanks, Michael, for the reassurance.

[AF_Rob]

Originally Posted by ROLLiWORKS

yes quickset

Thank you very much! The dealer sorted it. With a little love from the watchmaker, it’s back on track!


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[amanbra]

Here is some documentation on the 2235, is the 2236 the same or fixed?

anyone?

[KathleenL]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Here is some documentation on the 2235, is the 2236 the same or fixed?

anyone?

I, too, am wondering what the experts’ opinions are regarding the 2236.

[Alexjb007]

El 2236 lleva volante con espiral de silicio.