The Most Boring Topic Ever

[enginerd]

Insurance!

Ok, here's my deal. I started off with a one watch collection (a 16600) that I wore all the time. I never insured it, as I didn't feel like the loss would be too great if something happened.

Fast forward several years to present.

My collection has grown a bit, and I now have 5 watches in the rotation. The 16600 is probably worth double what I paid.

I know I need to insure them, but my justification has always been that 4 out of the 5 are always locked up in a waterproof/fireproof safe and I'd always be about 80% whole if something happened with the watch on my wrist. I realize that's stupid and I've convinced myself to insure everything.

Question is, can I insure for less than appraisal value? For example, I have a '91 DD that'll get appraised somewhere north of $30k for "replacement value" but I don't want to pay premiums on $30k. Is there anything like "agreed upon value" for watches so both parties are satisfied?

State of collection:

18248
16600
79160
79730
116660

[Tangier11]

Great collection. I cant answer your question on lowering the value, I think that would depend on the Ins. Co. However to me, I think the peace of mind would be worth it.

[thewheel82]

If the house goes up in flames there is a good chance your watches will be destroyed even inside of a "fireproof" safe. You can find some truly terrible pictures online.

I personally would insure them.

[Tangier11]

I bought a "fireproof" money bag, took it home and set it on fire. Yep, it burned

[droptopman]

My insurance company only asks for appraisals on values over 10K, so if I want to insure for less I simply put them at 9.9K or whatever value under 10K I feel comfortable with. They basically let me update the policy with whatever values I state--if under 10K.

[doboy007]

Originally Posted by droptopman

My insurance company only asks for appraisals on values over 10K, so if I want to insure for less I simply put them at 9.9K or whatever value under 10K I feel comfortable with. They basically let me update the policy with whatever values I state--if under 10K.

So they let you insure a Timex for $9999 without an appraisal? Haha

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by doboy007

So they let you insure a Timex for $9999 without an appraisal? Haha

I guess they would, but I have to pay the premium. Usually works out to about 1.5% of insured value annually.

[DonBateman]

Originally Posted by tangier11

i bought a "fireproof" money bag, took it home and set it on fire. Yep, it burned

lol

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by thewheel82

If the house goes up in flames there is a good chance your watches will be destroyed even inside of a "fireproof" safe. You can find some truly terrible pictures online.

I personally would insure them.

No argument. I know I need to insure.

I work in engineering, and specifically mining. Our industry deals with very massive, very hot fires far too often. Very little survives. Last incident is at $30M in losses and counting, as production halted.

[envuks]

I think this question is best posed to your insurance agent as it’s likely to be carrier specific.

I do think the other option would be to speak with the person doing your appraisals and ask for a certain (lower) value on each. Often appraisers will ask “what’s your goal for these appraisals?” When they perform the service. I think for insurance they normally make them the highest replacement value, but I do think they could give you an appraisal at a lower dollar amount if you requested it.

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by Tangier11

I bought a "fireproof" money bag, took it home and set it on fire. Yep, it burned

But did the money burn?

[athom]

I'd say sell all and buy one great watch ! imho...

[Hodog16]

I don't see a problem with insuring for less than the appraised value, you are agreeing to get paid less than the item's worth which often can be the same as how much it costs to replace (since we often aren't paying MSRP).

For example, my 116619 is appraised for MSRP plus tax, and I insure it for $27k which was how much a new one would have cost until recently (I see they are going for about $29k now on the grey websites).

On the flip side, I asked my AD about adjusting the appraisal for my old 16610LV and they can appraise it for the current model MSRP (116610LV) but they cannot appraise it for the grey market value. Non-Rolex jewelers may be willing to.

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by athom

I'd say sell all and buy one great watch ! imho...

Can't say I haven't thought about it.

However, I do get a certain amount of joy visiting the safe every week to change things up. I hadn't worn my 16600 in about a 6 months (D-Blue honeymoon lasted a long time); I fell in love all over again. In fact, it's what I'm wearing while typing this.

[envuks]

Originally Posted by Hodog16

On the flip side, I asked my AD about adjusting the appraisal for my old 16610LV and they can appraise it for the current model MSRP (116610LV) but they cannot appraise it for the grey market value. Non-Rolex jewelers may be willing to.

My AD always writes appraisals for MSRP.

I have read on the forum that some of the larger “grey market” sellers offer appraisals at current market value. I think i remember reading that a member got a market value appraisal from DavidSW for a BLRO.

[milgauss2007]

Just look at the policy carefully since some only pay to buy a watch and will not give you cash.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Andad]

A '91 DD that appraised somewhere north of $30k for "replacement value".

Is that new for old?

[HogwldFLTR]

If you know you can replace a watch for less than the appraised replacement value then it makes no sense to insure if for more than what it will cost you to replace it.

[Chadridv]

Jewelers Mutual let me insure a YM2 several years ago for about 4K less than the retail value. Not sure if that helps you or even if they would still practice that policy. And btw, the appraisal did reflect the full retail value. Great collection!

[bblewis]

Hey, my first post here (emerging from lurker/learning status), but I can help a bit with this question as I've had this discussion with my insurance agent regarding my IWC. You can typically insure for less, save on the premium, with the obvious trade-off being you will only get the value you insure for if you need to file a claim. Your insurance agent should be able to help you out with that.

[doboy007]

Originally Posted by droptopman

I guess they would, but I have to pay the premium. Usually works out to about 1.5% of insured value annually.

But then you “lose” the Timex and get paid $9999 for $50 Timex.

[SamP]

I’m pretty sure if you insure you house for Say $100k when it’s worth $200k; if it burns down, the insurers would only pay out 100/200 X $100k = $50k.
Basically they’re saying you under-insured the house by 50%, so we’ll pay out 50% of the insured amount of $100k.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that applies to any item of insurance, including watches.
If however, you have an appraisal cert saying the watch is a lower value than others say, you may get away with it.
But I think you should do the right thing and insure for the correct market value and indeed have it index linked and re-appraised every year or two.
Regards

[Dougmc]

Originally Posted by SamP

I’m pretty sure if you insure you house for Say $100k when it’s worth $200k; if it burns down, the insurers would only pay out 100/200 X $100k = $50k.
Basically they’re saying you under-insured the house by 50%, so we’ll pay out 50% of the insured amount of $100k.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that applies to any item of insurance, including watches.
If however, you have an appraisal cert saying the watch is a lower value than others say, you may get away with it.
But I think you should do the right thing and insure for the correct market value and indeed have it index linked and re-appraised every year or two.
Regards

This is my basic understanding too, but one to be discussed with your broker/insurer to be certain.

[Chiboy]

If you are comfortable self-insuring (ie. absorbing the loss) on one watch, as you were at the beginning, I'd store the other four watches in a bank vault and continue that way. I know almost no one on here likes this approach, but that's what I'd do. Insurers seem to charge around 1% of the item's value per year. For each watch. That's crazy if you have a large collection. The odds of something happening to one watch that you wear every day is x. The odds of loss on 100 or those watches if you store 99 of them in a vault every day is NO WHERE NEAR 100x.

I self-insured my TT DJ for 20+ years. I realized it wasn't worth it to insure it as I could accept (grudgingly) the loss if something happened. When I got my Daytona, I did insure it. But I wear it every day. If I had 20 high end watches, I sure as heck wouldn't spend 20x my Daytona insurance rate.

FWIW, I used to have risk management (which included insurance) under me in my professional life. The rule of thumb in corporate America was to insure only those risks that you couldn't or wouldn't want to absorb because insurance costs more than its expected value (that is how insurance companies make money), so you don't want to buy more than you need.

When I got my Daytona, the requested appraisal from DSW was for MSRP. I asked him to lower it to my purchase price (it was used and was 2 years ago so there was a very large difference). I didn't want to pay to over-insure it.

Everyone is different. What is your risk tolerance and risk profile?

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

If you are comfortable self-insuring (ie. absorbing the loss) on one watch, as you were at the beginning, I'd store the other four watches in a bank vault and continue that way. I know almost no one on here likes this approach, but that's what I'd do. Insurers seem to charge around 1% of the item's value per year. For each watch. That's crazy if you have a large collection. The odds of something happening to one watch that you wear every day is x. The odds of loss on 100 or those watches if you store 99 of them in a vault every day is NO WHERE NEAR 100x.

I self-insured my TT DJ for 20+ years. I realized it wasn't worth it to insure it as I could accept (grudgingly) the loss if something happened. When I got my Daytona, I did insure it. But I wear it every day. If I had 20 high end watches, I sure as heck wouldn't spend 20x my Daytona insurance rate.

FWIW, I used to have risk management (which included insurance) under me in my professional life. The rule of thumb in corporate America was to insure only those risks that you couldn't or wouldn't want to absorb because insurance costs more than its expected value (that is how insurance companies make money), so you don't want to buy more than you need.

When I got my Daytona, the requested appraisal from DSW was for MSRP. I asked him to lower it to my purchase price (it was used and was 2 years ago so there was a very large difference). I didn't want to pay to over-insure it.

Everyone is different. What is your risk tolerance and risk profile?

I do the same, only self insure with help from my dog

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by SamP

I’m pretty sure if you insure you house for Say $100k when it’s worth $200k; if it burns down, the insurers would only pay out 100/200 X $100k = $50k.
Basically they’re saying you under-insured the house by 50%, so we’ll pay out 50% of the insured amount of $100k.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that applies to any item of insurance, including watches.
If however, you have an appraisal cert saying the watch is a lower value than others say, you may get away with it.
But I think you should do the right thing and insure for the correct market value and indeed have it index linked and re-appraised every year or two.
Regards

The idea was to insure for market value. I could replace my DD for $10-12k, just didn't want to pay premiums on new DD values (although losing a 1991 and picking up a 2019 wouldn't be awful).

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

The odds of something happening to one watch that you wear every day is x. The odds of loss on 100 or those watches if you store 99 of them in a vault every day is NO WHERE NEAR 100x.

This was exactly my thinking, but now my collection has grown with some pieces that would hurt a bit more if something happened. A mid-four figure hit at the time didn't worry me much. A five figure loss just has a different sound to me. My car isn't worth all that much more than my DD or DSSD, and I insure that without thinking. Ha, the way the mind works.

I guess this topic wasn't as boring as I thought...so many interesting perspectives here.

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by bblewis

Hey, my first post here (emerging from lurker/learning status), but I can help a bit with this question as I've had this discussion with my insurance agent regarding my IWC. You can typically insure for less, save on the premium, with the obvious trade-off being you will only get the value you insure for if you need to file a claim. Your insurance agent should be able to help you out with that.

I use Jewelers Mutual for my wife's diamonds. I'll give them a shout. Her ring appraised for about $5k over what I spent, but I let it go as I'd just get her something nicer if the current one vanished.

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by joli160

I do the same, only self insure with help from my dog

I typically carry my self-insurance in my waistband. I also keep more insurance in my bedside table.

[ltmgeller]

Great collection. Jewelers Mutual lets you pick a deductible and you can update the value of the watches as often as you'd like. I cover mine for what it would cost to replace.