Harley Davidson -- Could Rolex be next?

[rollyp]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mille...170620695.html

I know, lots of discussion lately about the future of luxury watches, particularly Rolex. But does this article about Harley shed some light on what could happen in the watch world (given the popularity of the Apple Watch and its utility)?

[huncho]

rolex, AP and patek aren't going anywhere, especially rolex because its the most affordable of the three. there is just too much social media and pop culture presence for them. the same can't be said about harley

[gaeleus]

Anything is possible in this fast changing world

[GradyPhilpott]

I think that Harley-Davidson has depended upon legend and mystique for a long time and it may be that that time is up.

Hard times are nothing new to Harley.

With WWII and "Easy Rider" both being ancient history, Harley is going to have to build products for a generation who has different values and interests.

Rolex hasn't had to endure the scourge of shoddy workmanship the way that Harley has had to in the past and even if "millennial" are different and even if there is a clock on every device, including the smartphone, this is not a new phenomenon and luxury watches are still a thing.

The market may change, but I think the watch industry will be around for a few more generations.

[CDNWatchNut]

In the motorcycle world, (in my opinion) Harley is a lifestyle brand that has long failed to keep up with or even stay reasonably close to the competition in terms of technology and performance, continuing to use their heritage to justify their high prices. Other premium brands, such as Ducati and BMW, also sell a lifestyle image in their marketing, and they price themselves accordingly. However, Ducati and BMW have always been at or very near to the leading edge in technology and performance, and they don’t try to sell decades old technology using fancy cosmetic repackaging and chrome.
Rolex may move slowly, but I see them as being more equivalent to Ducati and BMW. I don’t see them going the way of Harley Davidson.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I think that Harley-Davidson has depended upon legend and mystique for a long time and it may be that that time is up.

Hard times are nothing new to Harley.

With WWII and "Easy Rider" both being ancient history, Harley is going to have to build products for a generation who has different values and interests.

Rolex hasn't had to endure the scourge of shoddy workmanship the way that Harley has had to in the past and even if "millennial" are different and even if there is a clock on every device, including the smartphone, this is not a new phenomenon and luxury watches are still a thing.

The market may change, but I think the watch industry will be around for a few more generations.

+1

[mikeyatc]

Harley is struggling because of millennial's... Rolex will flourish because of millennial's!

[640alex]

Anything can happen. I’m a millennial (33) and all of my millennial friends and family think I’m crazy for buying an expensive watch much less more than 2 expensive watches.

But then again I’m also the rare millennial that also owns a Harley Softail.

One thing about millennials is we hate to wait so be being waitlisted or being told you can’t even wait could be a deal breaker for most of us.

To quote my 30 year old brother “you bought a Rolex? You’re crazy you could have bought a stainless Apple Watch and bunch of MVMTs with 15 hundred bucks.”

[subtona]

Harley is Harley.
They are a exceptional motorcycle and an excellent choice if you are in the market for other than a sport or duel sport. They excel in their area and surpass the competition.

They have one of if not the best network of dealerships in the USA (can’t speak beyond) providing comprehensive support throughout the country, very important when traveling.


Agree with the point above, the enjoyment does not seem to have taken hold of the current millennial population, in my experience riding interest comes in waves.

I would consider the economy and jobs market for young people as well, 20k for a motorcycle is a steep chunk of change if you have just got your degree and associated debt and find yourself working in Starbucks.

Let’s see what the summer brings.


Ps I read today that Harley was owned by citizen (watch)

[RolexNinja7]

Originally Posted by CDNWatchNut

In the motorcycle world, (in my opinion) Harley is a lifestyle brand that has long failed to keep up with or even stay reasonably close to the competition in terms of technology and performance, continuing to use their heritage to justify their high prices. Other premium brands, such as Ducati and BMW, also sell a lifestyle image in their marketing, and they price themselves accordingly. However, Ducati and BMW have always been at or very near to the leading edge in technology and performance, and they don’t try to sell decades old technology using fancy cosmetic repackaging and chrome.
Rolex may move slowly, but I see them as being more equivalent to Ducati and BMW. I don’t see them going the way of Harley Davidson.

Couldn’t have said it better myself

[uniqueMR]

Originally Posted by mikeyatc

Harley is struggling because of millennial's... Rolex will flourish because of millennial's!

:) well said

[springer]

Originally Posted by CDNWatchNut

In the motorcycle world, (in my opinion) Harley is a lifestyle brand that has long failed to keep up with or even stay reasonably close to the competition in terms of technology and performance, continuing to use their heritage to justify their high prices. Other premium brands, such as Ducati and BMW, also sell a lifestyle image in their marketing, and they price themselves accordingly. However, Ducati and BMW have always been at or very near to the leading edge in technology and performance, and they don’t try to sell decades old technology using fancy cosmetic repackaging and chrome.
Rolex may move slowly, but I see them as being more equivalent to Ducati and BMW. I don’t see them going the way of Harley Davidson.

Harley riders have very little to no interest in riding Ducatis or BMWs. Harley owners ride Harleys because they are what they are and there isn't anything else that has the mystic of owning a Harley.

Frankly, Harley's biggest problem is pricing - they have become way too expensive.

[praveen]

Originally Posted by CDNWatchNut

In the motorcycle world, (in my opinion) Harley is a lifestyle brand that has long failed to keep up with or even stay reasonably close to the competition in terms of technology and performance, continuing to use their heritage to justify their high prices. Other premium brands, such as Ducati and BMW, also sell a lifestyle image in their marketing, and they price themselves accordingly. However, Ducati and BMW have always been at or very near to the leading edge in technology and performance, and they don’t try to sell decades old technology using fancy cosmetic repackaging and chrome.
Rolex may move slowly, but I see them as being more equivalent to Ducati and BMW. I don’t see them going the way of Harley Davidson.

Agreed!

[DP63]

Hard comparison to make really.

The disposable income of the midlife crisis club has shifted from buying things like a Harley and living that fantasy of being a bad ass (Sons of Arthritus back patcher) ... my name is Nigel and I'm an accountant, but the guys at the Wednesday meeting of the bike club call me Mad Dog when we are at the wine bar, and I'm the hardcore guy amoung us as I've put 700 miles on my soft tail this year. Those days have moved on.

Midlife crisis guys like the above, are buying a used Aston for the same money as a Screaming Eagle bagger these days, and its easier to justify to the better half than £25k of motorcycle sitting in the garage doing nothing while the family Audi is used for trips to the golf course. There has been a notable drop in "born again" bikers in the UK, sports bikes overtook cruisers in popularity but its safer to get your kicks for speed and handling from an affordable used sports car than what is essentially a racing bike with number plates .... not to mention insurance costs (UK) were frightening for middle aged guys returning to biking after decades of time off.

As for watches ... there has always been collectors, and there has always been that "must have" piece that is soooo hard to find buyer, so add the midlife crisis brigade, the disposable income now that the kids have flown the nest club, and the millenials and I think Rolex will still be doing fine long after my collection is being shared out when they read my will.

[aleeboy]

I can see from product placement on tv shows that Rolex is using celebrities to endorse their products.

Also, professionals I no do not aspire to wear Rolex/ Other Luxury Brands as they want to put their hard to get cash into expensive property and stocks. I strongly believe only a few markets in the world have strong Rolex demand and these may not be the most representitive of places.

[jimcameron]

Generally, Millennials spend most of their time playing with their phones. Harley is about 30 years behind in technology, and other than nice paint jobs only attract riders over 60 that enjoy dressing up like Pirates. BMW has done to it's bikes what it did to its cars. Because of the high level of technology, you can't afford to own one out of warranty. On my pristine K1200RS, the cost of replacing the ABS module almost exceeds the value of an otherwise spectacular bike. Having been the owner of 6 Harley's over 40 years, the most recent a 2017 Roadking, I believe they are 80% hype, and 20% ancient technology.
As far as Harley saving itself with battery powered bikes, I'm confident they will fall on their face. Zero Motorcycles have been selling electric for years with a minuscule market share. I'm very confident Harley will not fair better.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by mikeyatc

harley is struggling because of millennial's... Rolex will flourish because of millennial's!

+1

[DLRIDES]

Harley is gone ................... the brand name will be purchased by a foreign entity, low end bikes produced using the name. Harley did not plan for the future and will suffer the consequences.


ROLEX, Patek, and couple of other luxury brands will survive the impending mechanical watch crisis. Approximately 60% of mechanical watch manufacturers will fail within 30-40 years. You will see a sort of luxury hybrid mechanical/smart watch introduced by big name manufacturers in the near future.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

Harley is gone ................... the brand name will be purchased by a foreign entity, low end bikes produced using the name. Harley did not plan for the future and will suffer the consequences.


ROLEX, Patek, and couple of other luxury brands will survive the impending mechanical watch crisis. Approximately 60% of mechanical watch manufacturers will fail within 30-40 years. You will see a sort of luxury hybrid mechanical/smart watch introduced by big name manufacturers in the near future.

I sure hope your dead wrong

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I sure hope your dead wrong

I do too !


Sadly, many indicators lead to this reality. Just as the Harley enthusiasts can’t see the future, due to being passionately involved, so does the watch community.

When children do not see their parents wear watches, when they are adults, the majority of them will not. GENERALLY speaking, children repeat parents’ lives 75-80% of the time.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

I do too !


Sadly, many indicators lead to this reality. Just as the Harley enthusiasts can’t see the future, due to being passionately involved, so does the watch community.

When children do not see their parents wear watches, when they are adults, the majority of them will not. GENERALLY speaking, children repeat parents’ lives 75-80% of the time.

I’m going to do my part and teach them well (when it comes to watches)

[joli160]

The difference between a Harley and Rolex is that a Rolex is seen as high quality by almost everybody and Harley's reputation regarding quality is rather poor compared to Honda or BMW i.e.
That is not sustainable in the long run and is imho the reason for its decline

[Joeguy]

Another difference is the outcome when you accidentally knock one into a car


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Joeguy

Another difference is the outcome when you accidentally knock one into a car


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Star Ferry]

Motorcycles are dangerous and require insurance and licensing. further, Rolex is the more desirable brand

harley is more like Chris-Craft than Rolex

[utc66]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

GENERALLY speaking, children repeat parents’ lives 75-80% of the time.

Is this true? Any studies on this? It would be interesting to read.

[SPEIRMOOR]

Chill, Harley is going nowhere.

[gettocard]

Originally Posted by SPEIRMOOR

Chill, Harley is going nowhere.

Harley Davidson the way we know it is done for it,give it anoter 2 - 3 years at best. The fact that any big chinese or european entity hasn't shown any interest in aquiring the brand says a lot about it.

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by utc66

Is this true? Any studies on this? It would be interesting to read.

Plenty are out there :

drug use
alcohol use
crime
financial success
single parenthood
education
etc
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Pick your poison

[gettocard]

Originally Posted by mikeyatc

Harley is struggling because of millennial's... Rolex will flourish because of millennial's!

That is wrong to some degrees too. Millenials either don't use watches at all or use smartwatches. Rolex will thrive thanks to the chinese market..