Is this why AP discontinued white Royal Oak 15400?

[Horolojust]

So I came across something extremely surprising and interesting, which is that white 15400s potentially were NOT made with the same dial shade. It’s weird and interesting at the same time.

See the video for details where I show side of side photos of differences and they are indeed noticeable.

The discovery raises a few questions;

1. Are AP doing adequate QC checks commensurate with their price point?
2. Is this was a deliberate change, why did they in their official email to me didn’t know?
3. They agreed that watches from different batches can have slight difference in dial shade. Do we consider this slight and acceptable? I don’t because to me it’s DRAMATICALLY different.

See video link for details;

https://youtu.be/XojNFSYi6ec

[benlee]

Interesting... There appears to be slight generational difference in dial color tones in Royal Oaks. The last case I recalled having this "issue" was 15202ST. The earlier batches have blue dial with a purplelish hue while later dials is a deeper darker blue.

Actually, I find the dial color tone on the left side more appealing, almost like patina.

[Horolojust]

Originally Posted by benlee

Interesting... There appears to be slight generational difference in dial color tones in Royal Oaks. The last case I recalled having this "issue" was 15202ST. The earlier batches have blue dial with a purplelish hue while later dials is a deeper darker blue.

Actually, I find the dial color tone on the left side more appealing, almost like patina.

Cheers mate. Yeah, I’m not aware of 15202, but like you say, it appears to be generic issue with AP in ensuring consistency of colours?

Yeah I loved the left one too but I like a more simple whiter dial now. Also, I didn’t quite clearly say in the video as I talked about tone of reflections but not reflection itself, but in macro shots, if you see closely, the silver one is far more reflective and shiny. It’s almost as if the silver one has some lustrous layer sprayed on it - it’s FAR more blingy and shiny. I loved it indeed but am not preferring the white and lesser reflective dial on right one.


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[asingzon]

Could it be a difference in supply? I read online that dials are either outsourced or made in house.


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[kneedeep]

I think the slight and subtle variations in dial colors are a cool characteristic of not mass produced luxury watches.

[blown5.0]

+1

Originally Posted by kneedeep

i think the slight and subtle variations in dial colors are a cool characteristic of not mass produced luxury watches.

[Horolojust]

Originally Posted by kneedeep

I think the slight and subtle variations in dial colors are a cool characteristic of not mass produced luxury watches.

Yes and no mate. In defence to AP, I’d say that yes these watches are all largely hand crafted so expecting some inaccuracy is a fair call.

Inaccuracy and inconsistency are two different things. I truly don’t think it’s a defect. I reckon it’s a different shade, but far more different than you’d expect from such a high end product.

I don’t find it fair to accept this level of dissimilarities in a product that’s quality controlled and checked.

It’s different enough that I having owned one before could spot but then again similar enough that a new AP buyer wouldn’t ever know. And that’s where it becomes interesting


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[Famz_01]

I don’t see what the big deal is at all

[Largoshark]

Even Rolex does this from time to time. Doubt it has anything to do with the white model being discontinued.

[Burlington]

Perhaps they changed supplier or process slightly hence the variation.

They will be manufacturing to a detailed product spec & each element of the watch will have pre defined tolerances as well as incoming raw materials.

Colour measurements are pretty commonplace and simple with a big range of tools from eye checking vs. Pantones to calibrated equipment that will provide quantitative data.

I fail to see a colour change of that magnitude as being unintentional. If it kept on moving about then maybe, but as there seems to have been a point in time where things switched it looks more like they simply updated the product design (for better or worse depending on perspective)

Who at AP did you ask - direct to the Le Brassus team?

Often relatively minor changes in a product spec like this wouldn’t be widely communicated, especially if it’s a ‘just get on and do it’ thing to mitigate an issue elsewhere (supplier problems, manufacturing issues, etc.)

[HK Islandboy]

Originally Posted by Famz_01

I don’t see what the big deal is at all

Agreed.

There are differences in dial colour from generation to generation. For example, the current blue dials on the 15400or is brighter and more sparkly (in a absence of a more articulate description!) than earlier versions, which are a darker, more mat blue. This is a conscious decision and not a manufacturing defect or a failure in QC.

[GB-man]

It was discontinued because they wanted to introduce a new model with their new movement. Cetainly not because of a dial variation which is extremely common in the world of watches. Just my opinion.

[Horolojust]

Originally Posted by Largoshark

Even Rolex does this from time to time. Doubt it has anything to do with the white model being discontinued.

Cheers mate. Regardless of the reason, it’s such a stunning dial (either white or silver), and it’s sad it’s no more in production now.

Originally Posted by GB-man

It was discontinued because they wanted to introduce a new model with their new movement. Cetainly not because of a dial variation which is extremely common in the world of watches. Just my opinion.

Thanks mate. White was discontinued from 15202 before and now also from 15400. I don’t think it was hard to sell dial so unsure why. Regardless, I agree, the model upgrade was due because of new movement, but that’s the only dial they are not doing anymore, hence the question?

Originally Posted by HK Islandboy

Agreed.



There are differences in dial colour from generation to generation. For example, the current blue dials on the 15400or is brighter and more sparkly (in a absence of a more articulate description!) than earlier versions, which are a darker, more mat blue. This is a conscious decision and not a manufacturing defect or a failure in QC.

From generation to generation and having different dial colours in the same generation, same year and even same K series is different mate. No?

Originally Posted by Burlington

Perhaps they changed supplier or process slightly hence the variation.

They will be manufacturing to a detailed product spec & each element of the watch will have pre defined tolerances as well as incoming raw materials.

Colour measurements are pretty commonplace and simple with a big range of tools from eye checking vs. Pantones to calibrated equipment that will provide quantitative data.

I fail to see a colour change of that magnitude as being unintentional. If it kept on moving about then maybe, but as there seems to have been a point in time where things switched it looks more like they simply updated the product design (for better or worse depending on perspective)

Who at AP did you ask - direct to the Le Brassus team?

Often relatively minor changes in a product spec like this wouldn’t be widely communicated, especially if it’s a ‘just get on and do it’ thing to mitigate an issue elsewhere (supplier problems, manufacturing issues, etc.)

Thanks mate for a detailed response. I agree that colour change of this magnitude can’t really be unintentional. And also yes that they might have updated the design but then I was expecting them to know when I contacted them. Their email response to ,e clearly said “we haven’t changed any design details technically”
I contacted through their website and then got into email correspondence as they replied me. I believe their team that I got in touch were based in Singapore, due to myself being located in Australia. (And sg boutique/factory service centre is closest)


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[RolexZen]

Silvered dial 15450 is still in production, no?

There could be business or design decisions on why the silvered dial is not available on the new 15500s:

Maybe the demand for silvered 15400s was lower than other colors, and with potentially reduced output this year on ROs, they decided to hold on these until 2020?

Maybe the new dial design doesn’t work as well on silver/white—this dial color already tends to look larger on the wrist, so with the shorter hour markers and the removal of AUTOMATIC at 6 o’clock, perhaps the the dial looks too big and empty?

Don’t know, but I doubt that QC issues in 2018 are the reason for the discontinuation of silvered dials in 41mm ROs in 2019.

[Sho-nuff]

Originally Posted by Famz_01

I don’t see what the big deal is at all

I think the issue is that if someone spends $20k on a silvered dial K Series 15400, AP might deliver you a 'white' one instead. There's nothing you can do about it, because AP doesn't consider them to be different dials, even though they clearly are.

[RolexZen]

If you watch the making of videos on AP’s YouTube channel, you can see a lot of tasks are done by hand. No two dials will be exactly alike. What we see between these two dials could just be a difference in lacquer thickness or something. I’m sure both watches went through thorough QC and the differences would not surprise AP at all.

[NYG1121]

AP frequently adds dial variations later. The 15450 was only available in white for a while. I’m sure they will add it

[PJ S]

The 15400 dial has never been white, it’s only ever been silver tone. The 15300 had a white dial.

[mr_gray]

for another data point my K serial 15400ST has the whiter dial too. the previous dial owned by the OP is close to a mother of pearl finish in some light. i do not feel that the markers are bounded by black lines though nor do they stand out well. i often have trouble telling the time on this watch (although it is new to me). i don't really care though. my son who has an artists eye (for now, we hand it back next week) saw it for first time today and i have never seen him react to a wristwatch of mine in quite the same way. it was quite gratifying.

[mineral]

Originally Posted by Horolojust

So I came across something extremely surprising and interesting, which is that white 15400s potentially were NOT made with the same dial shade. It’s weird and interesting at the same time.

See the video for details where I show side of side photos of differences and they are indeed noticeable.

The discovery raises a few questions;

1. Are AP doing adequate QC checks commensurate with their price point?
2. Is this was a deliberate change, why did they in their official email to me didn’t know?
3. They agreed that watches from different batches can have slight difference in dial shade. Do we consider this slight and acceptable? I don’t because to me it’s DRAMATICALLY different.

See video link for details; Attachment 1023917

https://youtu.be/XojNFSYi6ec

I think the difference is very subtle and unlikely the QC related issue.

Here is my ‘white’ jumbo 15202 next to ‘silver’ 15400.




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