1675 Tropical Gilt Chapter Ring Dial Input

[LJubel328]

I just received this from a vintage dealer in Italy. I was aware the lacquer was cracked (spider dial); this is not something that bothers me as I believe it can look quite interesting in certain lights, but I also wouldn't pay a premium for it. The spidering was not significantly noticeable in any of the videos or photos he sent so I took the plunge.

I just received it and would like some input as I am constantly trying to learn more and more in this vintage world. Watch came with box and paper certificate for a price of 50k (the serial # is 5*****). Comes with original rivet bracelet as well.

[Crown & Shield]

I gather from the very detailed pictures you posted that you are looking for feedback about the chamfers on that case, am I wrong? I am not an expert, but to me they look almost too good to be original, especially the second picture. A broader view of the watch would probably help to show its general condition...

[HarryLime]

Can we see the dial?

[lupus66]

Video in zipfile however inprefer some good macros
Case is recut.

[HarryLime]

Sorry wait, you paid FIFTY THOUSAND for a chapter ring gilt with a recut case and "spider dial"? Does it have pointed crown guards? What am I missing here... don't they normally sell for around ~$30,000? Original papers or service papers?

[Crown & Shield]

Wouldn't a recut case cut the value drastically? Personally, I'd rather have a service case than a case that has been recut or overpolished...
Sorry, I am not opening a zip file posted online so I have not seen the video.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Sorry wait, you paid FIFTY THOUSAND for a chapter ring gilt with a recut case and "spider dial"? Does it have pointed crown guards? What am I missing here... don't they normally sell for around ~$30,000? Original papers or service papers?

I had looked for quite some time and could not find any under $40,000. Yes, it has PCG and came with box and paper.

The spider dial was not nearly as significant in any of the photos or videos sent to me prior and much more noticeable in person. I have an inspection period of 10 days hence why I am here asking you all :) Here are additional photos

[HarryLime]

Can we see the entire thing? The whole case including insert tells the full story. Can you post the box and paper too? Feel free to blank out any info you want.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Can we see the entire thing? The whole case including insert tells the full story. Can you post the box and paper too? Feel free to blank out any info you want.

Of course, here are additional shots. Thanks in advance for your help

[Crown & Shield]

The stretch & wear of the bracelet does not match the condition of the case. It looks too crisp to have been polished, so I'd agree with the other poster above that it was recut.
I would be careful wearing the watch on that bracelet, any failure could prove very costly.

[HarryLime]

Stunning insert. Cool the have the original papers. Someone else can comment on the crown guards.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Crown & Shield

The stretch & wear of the bracelet does not match the condition of the case. It looks too crisp to have been polished, so I'd agree with the other poster above that it was recut.
I would be careful wearing the watch on that bracelet, any failure could prove very costly.

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Stunning insert. Cool the have the original papers. Someone else can comment on the crown guards.

Appreciate your guys help and input. At this price point, I gather both of you would opt to wait for a better one to come along?

[Tom1675]

I am not an expert and look forward to hearing opinions on that paper.

IMHO spider cracking is not something to pay a premium for.

I think you need to find a better one. Vet it here prior to purchase... Enjoy the hunt!!!

[Crown & Shield]

The dial does not bother me as much as the recut case. I do not see anything that would make me pay a premium for that particular watch.
Curious about that certificate as well as I am more familiar with watches sold in continental Europe.

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

Appreciate your guys help and input. At this price point, I gather both of you would opt to wait for a better one to come along?

I too am not an expert but at the same time I have looked at many images of Rolex GMT watches at this point in the quest to determine how original my own watch is. Like the other posters I would say it's very clear the case has been recut, IMHO. The lines are not consistent but beyond that there are still a few scratches on the surface which would indicate wear. The bracelet shouts it's been worn, especially if they are saying it's original to the watch. if you look at the edges of the bevel they are very clean with no dents or abrasions of any kind. I would expect to see maybe some very minor dents directly on the edge of each bevel line for a watch of this age not to mention a bracelet in the condition above.
That said, I do think this watch is largely original. the face is quite nice wth the spiderweb pattern, beautiful insert, and patina on the hands and dial. No idea how much a watch like this goes for in premium condition but good luck because I do believe you are in good hands with the knowledgable people on this forum.

[HarryLime]

I'd return if I could, and wait for a better (and prob cheaper too) example.

[DSplash]

How do you tell it’s been recut?


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[Vincent65]

I wouldn't put the crazing on the lacquer on this this gilt/tropical dial in the same bracket as the later so-called 'spider' dials on 80s subs. This is much more subtle and far less pronounced IMO.

I think the dial is quite appealing, overall, but I'd be very unhappy that it wasn't represented as such to you before paying up. I'd send it back on that basis alone. The insert is great, but I'm not certain it's period-correct. Case is a bit of a mystery. The razor-sharp and high-polished and brushed case doesn't look consistent with the bracelet, or its purported age. Crown-guards are... unusual, to say the least. Pointed-eagle-beak-somethings which look re-cut/shaped. So, apparently mint case, with a shot bracelet. Go figure.

Can't comment on papers. All in all, I get a feeling it didn't all leave the factory together as a whole. And 50K? Pass/return it.

[LJubel328]

Thanks to everyone inputs and comments on this--I have decided to return it.

I am once more in the pursuit for one

[waspy1]

I’d love to see this dial in the sunlight. It looks like it would be a fantastic tropical brown.


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[springer]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

I wouldn't put the crazing on the lacquer on this this gilt/tropical dial in the same bracket as the later so-called 'spider' dials on 80s subs. This is much more subtle and far less pronounced IMO.

I think the dial is quite appealing, overall, but I'd be very unhappy that it wasn't represented as such to you before paying up. I'd send it back on that basis alone. The insert is great, but I'm not certain it's period-correct. Case is a bit of a mystery. The razor-sharp and high-polished and brushed case doesn't look consistent with the bracelet, or its purported age. Crown-guards are... unusual, to say the least. Pointed-eagle-beak-somethings which look re-cut/shaped. So, apparently mint case, with a shot bracelet. Go figure.

Can't comment on papers. All in all, I get a feeling it didn't all leave the factory together as a whole. And 50K? Pass/return it.

I would agree with these comments and add - the insert is later than the watch - it is circa 1970-71 and the case has been refinished.

[Crown & Shield]

Originally Posted by springer

I would agree with these comments and add - the insert is later than the watch - it is circa 1970-71 and the case has been refinished.

What's the tell on the insert, the font?

[lee fowler]

One other point is that this is a UK watch looking at the papers yet it seems to wear a US C&I bracelet looking at the links size!

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

One other point is that this is a UK watch looking at the papers yet it seems to wear a US C&I bracelet looking at the links size!

Lee, but C&I bracelets have holes in the rivet ends. These don't.

[lee fowler]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Lee, but C&I bracelets have holes in the rivet ends. These don't.

Yes but it does not look like a 7206 or 6636 either!

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

Yes but it does not look like a 7206 or 6636 either!

I'll take door number three!

[lee fowler]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I'll take door number three!

It still amazes me that people buy first and then ask after!!

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

It still amazes me that people buy first and then ask after!!

Especially to the tune of $50,000.

OP, I do hope the return goes smoothly. Still and all, I imagine you're stuck with the return shipping and insuring fees, which I can't imagine will be small.

[lee fowler]

Italy again as well!!

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Especially to the tune of $50,000.

OP, I do hope the return goes smoothly. Still and all, I imagine you're stuck with the return shipping and insuring fees, which I can't imagine will be small.

Thanks, actually was quite surprised return shipping w/ insurance was so small. A small price to pay if I am not happy, but yes, lesson learned. Here on out I will reach out on here prior to a purchase of this size. I thought I had the reputation of RPM and the dealer (who had numerous positive reviews) at my back, sadly, I was mistaken.