The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20 September 2019, 11:52 AM   #1
miamiclay
2024 Pledge Member
 
miamiclay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 33139/95460
Posts: 1,413
Why are those bezels called “engine-turned”?

I’ve always wondered, maybe someone here knows the answer. Why are some Rolex bezels referred to as “engine turned” or “machine turned”?

I’m referring to those bezels, I believe most commonly found on older Datejusts, with an interrupted radial pattern of raised panels, like the first photo below.

When I hear the term “engine-turned,” what it brings to my mind is a repeated concentric pattern, often found on sheet-metal dashboards, like the second group of photos. I believe that Rolex itself uses (or used) the terms “engine turned” or “machine turned,” but I can’t see how the bezels are related to the more common usage of those terms. (I mean, both are round, but then so is most every bezel on a round watch.)

Anyone know the origin of or reason for Rolex’s terminology? Maybe it’s just part of horological vernacular in general - every field has its own specialized language - and predates Rolex?

If I were obliged to choose the word for those bezels ... idk, maybe ... “crenellated”?
.
.
Attached Images
   
miamiclay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 September 2019, 12:06 PM   #2
Tools
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,514
Engine turned means a repetitive pattern machined or engraved into metal.

In the case of the dashboards, it is classically "engine turned" - a repetitive machined design.

In the case of the repetitive, machined pattern, on the steel bezels edge, it too is engine (machine) turned decoration.

__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....)
NAWCC Member
Tools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 September 2019, 12:07 PM   #3
rajcuatrista
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: So.Fla
Posts: 97
I love the look of "engine turned bezel", Rolex should bring back that option!
I also like the pyramid dials, very cool.
rajcuatrista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 September 2019, 01:39 PM   #4
77T
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
77T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Real Name: PaulG
Location: Georgia
Posts: 42,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiclay View Post

Anyone know the origin of or reason for Rolex’s terminology? Maybe it’s just part of horological vernacular in general - every field has its own specialized language - and predates Rolex?

Rolex didn’t use the word engine-turned. That is, in the jewelry/watchmaking vernacular. I believe they would’ve used Guilloché.

That is the effect in use since the 1770’s to the technique Larry described.

Why Guilloché?

Because a French engineer named Guillot invented a tool or turning machine. At least that’s one etymological root for Guilloché.

The process can be linear, radial, orbital, or even overlapped as you portrayed in the photos.

I wouldn’t use crenellated as it more aptly describes a linear building technology with notches and merlons.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________


Does anyone really know what time it is?
77T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 September 2019, 04:45 PM   #5
GGGMT
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
GGGMT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itinerant
Watch: 79010sg
Posts: 8,346
Thanks for giving us some cool knowledge!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
GGGMT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 September 2019, 11:16 PM   #6
Dougiebaby
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Real Name: Doug
Location: Charlotte, NC
Watch: Daytona BLNR SubLV
Posts: 2,266
I owned one for 24 years...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dougiebaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 12:20 AM   #7
TonyD
2024 Pledge Member
 
TonyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Tony
Location: Boston North
Watch: Meteorite Daytona
Posts: 1,471
Perhaps some reference to the machine itself? Turned means a lathe. There are several kinds and some of the bigger ones are referred to as "engine lathes". I wonder if that has to do with it?

While a smaller lathe may be used to cut metal, some features such as a knurl are actually formed by pushing a tool into the metal. Its takes a LOT of force to do this, thus the big engine lathe.

Just a theory......
__________________
Pepsi GMT/SD43/DSSD Blue/ DJ41 TT Rose Diamond Dial/ Daytona Meteorite/ SS Sky Dweller White Dial/ IWC Bronze Big Pilot/ Aquanautic Super King / Omega Ploprof 1200 / Graham Scarab Diver
TonyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 12:50 AM   #8
Tools
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD View Post
Perhaps some reference to the machine itself? Turned means a lathe. There are several kinds and some of the bigger ones are referred to as "engine lathes". I wonder if that has to do with it?

. . . .....
The bezel would be chucked up in a turning machine (lathe) and indexed for each of the decorations to be cut. The actual cuts would be made by a separate machine process that moves in and out as the bezel rotates in front of it and stops at each indexed spot.

The Explorer II bezels are done similarly. They are chucked up in the lathe and slowly turned in front of a grinding wheel that cuts the radial mark design we see along the edge. So, the Explorer II also has a "machine edge", we just don't call it that.
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....)
NAWCC Member
Tools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 01:05 AM   #9
BlueNote
"TRF" Member
 
BlueNote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
Engine turned means a repetitive pattern machined or engraved into metal.

In the case of the dashboards, it is classically "engine turned" - a repetitive machined design.

In the case of the repetitive, machined pattern, on the steel bezels edge, it too is engine (machine) turned decoration.


Exactly. The metal is moved mechanically against a fixed engine turning die tool to cut a decorative, light reflecting or tactile interesting surface.
BlueNote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 01:14 AM   #10
jimcameron
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ByDawns Earlylite
Watch: 16800
Posts: 3,580
I have a ss dj 36 jubilee with the Engine Turned bezel. It was given to me by a lifetime friend owned it for about 30 years before passing it on to me. I never new the meaning of engine turned, you guys are the best. Thanks
jimcameron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 01:44 AM   #11
samson66
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
 
samson66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Mike
Location: Downy Ocean Hon
Watch: my money leaving!
Posts: 13,793
Great question, I aways wondered that myself
samson66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 03:09 AM   #12
2001jesper
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Real Name: Jesper
Location: Earth
Watch: 116234
Posts: 1,772
Are all engine-turned bezels steel or have they alternated between metals?
2001jesper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 03:49 AM   #13
miamiclay
2024 Pledge Member
 
miamiclay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 33139/95460
Posts: 1,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
The bezel would be chucked up in a turning machine (lathe) and indexed for each of the decorations to be cut. The actual cuts would be made by a separate machine process that moves in and out as the bezel rotates in front of it and stops at each indexed spot.
Somehow this description was able to enter my thick skull and make sense - Thanks 1M!
miamiclay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 03:51 AM   #14
springbar
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bay Area, Ca
Watch: 116400GV
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77T View Post
Rolex didn’t use the word engine-turned.
Yes they did. These bezels were described for decades as "engine-turned" in official Rolex catalogs and price lists.
springbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 05:43 AM   #15
springbar
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bay Area, Ca
Watch: 116400GV
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001jesper View Post
Are all engine-turned bezels steel or have they alternated between metals?
They were also available in gold.
Attached Images
   
springbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 06:32 AM   #16
bigfatpauli
"TRF" Member
 
bigfatpauli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 684
They say "engine turned" because it pre-dates Rolex-isms so they just pulled a name out of hat.

Today it would be called a "Rolemill" or "Rolengine" bezel.
bigfatpauli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 07:48 AM   #17
2001jesper
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Real Name: Jesper
Location: Earth
Watch: 116234
Posts: 1,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by springbar View Post
They were also available in gold.
Thanks
2001jesper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21 September 2019, 08:33 AM   #18
Finslayer83
"TRF" Member
 
Finslayer83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tennessee
Watch: DW-5600
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
The bezel would be chucked up in a turning machine (lathe) and indexed for each of the decorations to be cut. The actual cuts would be made by a separate machine process that moves in and out as the bezel rotates in front of it and stops at each indexed spot.

The Explorer II bezels are done similarly. They are chucked up in the lathe and slowly turned in front of a grinding wheel that cuts the radial mark design we see along the edge. So, the Explorer II also has a "machine edge", we just don't call it that.
some explorer bezels too



Finslayer83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 07:29 AM   #19
Yaz
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GVA
Watch: Rolex 16710
Posts: 1,631
Hey guys !

I do not want to open an other thread if the information is already available, I am looking for DateJust references and timeline history in order to get more information like:
What is the period of production of Datejusts with engine turned bezel and which references are with this configuration (1603 and 1622x only ?).
Thanks for your help.
Yaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 07:32 AM   #20
1665fan
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: East coast
Posts: 6,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finslayer83 View Post
some explorer bezels too



Very nice!
1665fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 08:50 AM   #21
Bruno Datejust
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Real Name: Bruno
Location: Italy
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 327
Very interesting! I didn't know about the yellow gold engine turned bezel. 16220 is a recent, I believe the latest, reference.
__________________
ROLEX
ROLEX
Bruno Datejust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 08:55 AM   #22
Yachtbuoy
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Australia
Watch: 1603 & 25407N
Posts: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajcuatrista View Post
I love the look of "engine turned bezel", Rolex should bring back that option!
I also like the pyramid dials, very cool.
No way, I think the classic engine-turned look is "of it's time". If you want one, pick up a vintage one!

It looks absolutely dope though, I am very much in love with my 1603.
Yachtbuoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 08:57 AM   #23
Old Expat Beast
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Far East
Watch: Golden Tuna
Posts: 28,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaz View Post
Hey guys !

I do not want to open an other thread if the information is already available, I am looking for DateJust references and timeline history in order to get more information like:
What is the period of production of Datejusts with engine turned bezel and which references are with this configuration (1603 and 1622x only ?).
Thanks for your help.
I suggest you start a new thread in the vintage section.
__________________
_______________________
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 10:06 AM   #24
Polarexplorerii
"TRF" Member
 
Polarexplorerii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: SA,TX
Watch: 16570,BLNR,116610
Posts: 2,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
Engine turned means a repetitive pattern machined or engraved into metal.

In the case of the dashboards, it is classically "engine turned" - a repetitive machined design.

In the case of the repetitive, machined pattern, on the steel bezels edge, it too is engine (machine) turned decoration.

i never knew that
Polarexplorerii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 10:13 AM   #25
brandrea
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
brandrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Brian (TBone)
Location: canada
Watch: es make me smile
Posts: 78,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77T View Post
Rolex didn’t use the word engine-turned. That is, in the jewelry/watchmaking vernacular. I believe they would’ve used Guilloché.

That is the effect in use since the 1770’s to the technique Larry described.

Why Guilloché?

Because a French engineer named Guillot invented a tool or turning machine. At least that’s one etymological root for Guilloché.

The process can be linear, radial, orbital, or even overlapped as you portrayed in the photos.

I wouldn’t use crenellated as it more aptly describes a linear building technology with notches and merlons.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
This term is used quite commonly used to describe dial patterns as well
brandrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 10:16 AM   #26
Yaz
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GVA
Watch: Rolex 16710
Posts: 1,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast View Post
I suggest you start a new thread in the vintage section.
Thanks.
Ok for me.
Yaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 12:08 PM   #27
77T
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
77T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Real Name: PaulG
Location: Georgia
Posts: 42,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandrea View Post
This term is used quite commonly used to describe dial patterns as well

Yes, guilloche is the right term - Rolex knows it...even today...

https://www.rolex.com/watches/cellini/m50519-0011.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________


Does anyone really know what time it is?
77T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 12:49 PM   #28
Oystersteel92
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: The South, USA
Posts: 991
I rather lust after the Air King with engine turned bezel and "Precision" dial.
Oystersteel92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 04:02 PM   #29
Verdi
"TRF" Member
 
Verdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Real Name: Mitch
Location: UAE
Watch: Big Ben
Posts: 2,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by springbar View Post
They were also available in gold.
Those ones are my favourite!! Thanks for sharing.

On steel, I love the early ones, from the '60s.
Universal Geneve used them as well, also on gold.
__________________
IG: @watch_idiot_savant
Verdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2020, 08:40 PM   #30
dricig
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Real Name: Dave
Location: NY Metro
Posts: 680
This was my first purchase 34 years ago. I liked the way the bezel markers were an extension of the dial .
Attached Images
 
__________________
Rolex 15010 Date -16013 TT DJ
16610LV -16750 GMT-16600 SD
16710 GMT -Tudor 79280
dricig is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Wrist Aficionado

My Watch LLC

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches

Takuya Watches

OCWatches


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.