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23 October 2019, 08:50 AM | #1 |
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Journe vs gronefeld
Trying to decide between two watches for my next watch. Looking for opinions and help.
Fp journe bleu Gronefeld 1918 remontaire And go.... |
23 October 2019, 09:31 AM | #2 |
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All the Gronefeld Remontoires are now sold, unless you’re looking at a pre-owned one or reserved allocation slot, with final deliveries in 18 months time or a bit more.
As different as the Chronometre Bleu is, with its dial and case material, the Remontoire is a much nicer watch, especially if you’re paying over retail for the CB. If you’re lucky to get a slot for the Remontoire, then you may still have time to choose a bespoke dial colour and guilloché pattern. Might you take a bit of a punt at the Remontoire Only Watch next month? If you haven’t already, get yourself over to Manfredi and/or Cellini’s, and try on the Rementoire, to make sure it’s all you imagine/expect. |
23 October 2019, 09:51 AM | #3 |
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Why does everyone keep thinking FPJ is so good? I just don't get their marketing prowess. It's just another mass produced watch. I know, I know, "But Pauli, they only make like 2000 watches a year!" (or whatever production number you are going to quote). It's still a 99% machine made product, I don't care how few they sell. I would look at JLC over FPJ any day of the week. Grönefeld is an actually interesting brand.
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23 October 2019, 10:01 AM | #4 |
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I own the FPJ CS and a Gronefeld Rementoire and I wear the Gronefeld often but rarely the FPJ... Just my own preference.
How do you know they are sold out? They still have them listed as being available on their website. I have been considering a Parallax Tourbillon .... |
23 October 2019, 11:02 AM | #5 | |
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23 October 2019, 11:58 AM | #6 |
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My issue is buying a gronefeld at retail is unknown resale and the two with bespoke dials I have seen for sale have sold well below... while the cs bleu is selling above retail and seems to be climbing.
I move in and out of watches a lot so would like to be able to get out if I can without losing my ass. |
23 October 2019, 12:33 PM | #7 | |
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Doesn’t mean ADs haven’t bought a couple for their own inventory in what colour/dial version they think will have the widest appeal, or what Gronefeld could supply them with sooner rather than later. The watch has been available to order since its introduction in 2016. |
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23 October 2019, 12:40 PM | #8 | |
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23 October 2019, 01:22 PM | #9 |
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Yes but the question is if you think prices will stabilize and come up on the gronefeld like they did on the fpj
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23 October 2019, 03:00 PM | #10 | |
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That's significantly less than 2000/yr which already is a lot less than most. |
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23 October 2019, 04:15 PM | #11 |
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Hating on FPJ for being mass produced is beyond fawkt.
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23 October 2019, 05:39 PM | #12 |
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23 October 2019, 05:58 PM | #13 | |
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23 October 2019, 06:03 PM | #14 |
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23 October 2019, 08:14 PM | #15 | |
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In person they are fine but I don't care for the company and their philosophy from the top down. I also don't care for their manufacturing process. |
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23 October 2019, 08:15 PM | #16 | |
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Let me rephrase what I wrote for you... Why does everyone keep thinking FPJ is so good? I just don't get their marketing prowess. It's just another mass produced watch. I know, I know, "But Pauli, they only make like 2 watches a year!" (or whatever production number you are going to quote). It's still a 99% machine made product, I don't care how few they sell. I would look at JLC over FPJ any day of the week. Grönefeld is an actually interesting brand. I hope that's better. My point was that production numbers have no impact on whether or not their product is likeable to me. Just because they can only sell 700 (or 2000 or 2) watches a year doesn't make them good or bad. |
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23 October 2019, 08:37 PM | #17 |
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The Chrono bleu would be my choice.
Gronefeld are interesting watches and really come close but imho the design is not as refined as the journe I also am having trouble appreciating the randomness of the 8 seconds remontoire... for me, it is the answer to a question that hasn’t been asked. Perhaps another way to sum it up...frank muller? Ps another thing I don’t get is designing your own dial, Kari V customs often look silly as a result of the bizarre and random choices collectors make... I have a job, it is not watch designer.
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23 October 2019, 09:27 PM | #18 | |
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I half agree on your point about customization. On one hand, customers can truly create some God awful designs... which can end up hurting the brand if/ when they hit the used market. On the other hand, it's a great thing to have that extra special connection to a watch you designed (or maybe holds little details that remind you of special events in your life). Maybe the in between is what FPJ does. Allow select customers to customize, but the final approval goes through the head watchmaker/designer.
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23 October 2019, 10:26 PM | #19 |
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So then the question remains if gronefeld... what options for it? Steel / Salmon or move to white gold /salmon. or spend the money on the kari v dials?
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24 October 2019, 12:38 AM | #20 | |
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FPJ is limited production, not mass produced, but you corrected that. They are hand made not machine made as you wrongly mentioned and also hand assembled in Geneva thus its limited production. You got one number correct, that is 99% .... but that is the watch components they build themselves. Each watch is a masterpiece of innovation, FPJ has patented more innovations in the last 10 years that any other watchmaker. FPJ is way above standard luxury watches. The CB dial is unique with the way it reflects light, no picture can capture that like the naked eye can. That’s why FPJ is highly respected and sought after. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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24 October 2019, 01:09 AM | #21 | |
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24 October 2019, 01:09 AM | #22 | |
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Again, I don't want to take anything away from anyone's enjoyment of their FPJ. Believe what you will about the brand and the "hand made" marketing. Enjoy your watch, as that really is all they are meant for. |
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24 October 2019, 01:27 AM | #23 |
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That honor belongs to DeBethune.
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24 October 2019, 01:39 AM | #24 | |
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Yes, I have actually spent quite a bit of time looking at FPJ's both at dealers and wearing one for a week (borrowed from a friend who has one). The CS was on my short list for a while. Although I have not seen a CB in the metal, I have experience with many of their other watches. The brand isn't for me. That's a me thing. Everyone can like, or dislike whatever they want. I really appreciate your kind offer of meeting up. It is always nice to meet a fellow watch lover! After all, I don't run into fellow WIS in my everyday life and it is always special to share our passion. If I'm in NYC in the near future, I will be sure to let you know, and if you are ever in Toronto I am happy to show you were to get the good coffee -Paul |
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24 October 2019, 01:55 AM | #25 |
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24 October 2019, 02:13 AM | #26 | ||
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24 October 2019, 02:25 AM | #27 |
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24 October 2019, 02:40 AM | #28 | |
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- they made about 40 grande sonnerie in total, it took them years to develop the watch - production of the CB is now 100 a year - the make 700 watches a year in total They use state of the art machinery to produce the watch components to high standards, then apply hand finishing while a single watchmaker assembles the entire watch. It is a different philosophy than P. Dufour who does everything old school. that is why i like FPJ so much, it is a great balance between tradition and modernity. And definitely not a mass production. |
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24 October 2019, 02:47 AM | #29 | |
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Mass-produce definition is - to produce in quantity usually by machinery. merriam-webster.com It is, literally by definition, mass produced. That doesn't make it bad (or good). At any rate, this is going no where. To anyone that likes FPJ, enjoy them - they are great watches by all measure. Ignore the guy on the internet who doesn't appreciate them like you do. |
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24 October 2019, 04:00 AM | #30 |
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You missed the word “quantity” but never mind....
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